Why the abuse?

  • Thread starter Thread starter kingJesus
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
All I have to say about this activity is “read about St John Bosco” If his dream about the barque of Peter is not prophetic and ultimately visible in this day and age I don’t know what is. Especiially considering the two pillars, our Lady, & The Eucharist.

👍
 
In my former church, the Episcopal church, of the priests that I knew one was married with children and he was a pedephile who molested boys in the parish. He just moved on to another parish. This was covered up.

Another priest was having an affair with a member of the parish and his wife was ill.

Another priest was married with 5 children, he and his wife adopted a teenage girl and he ended up in a sexual relationship with her and divorced his wife and married the girl.

I also knew of 4 priests that were homosexual and two of them had their partners attend their parishes.

This sexual abuse is abundant in every denomination, although when we point this out to protestants they accuse us of trying to divert the attention away from the Catholic Church. This is not the reason for informing others that the problem is all around us. It is not an excuse for any abuse of children.

Satan has entered all churches trying to destroy the Christian faith and I feel he is pointing at the Catholic Church because it is the True Church and if he can defeat the Church, Christianity is dead. Our Pope is the only leader who speaks out on moral issues today and the media would like to see him removed.

Statistics show that other denominations have more sexual abuse problems than the Catholic Church, but you rarely see any headlines about what is happening in these churches.

It doesn’t matter whether it is a church, school, scouts or any other organization, they have all been infiltrated by Satan and we as Christians must fight the good fight to stop these horrible acts.

As I recall in my former church records were not kept and although everyone knew about the married priest and his girlfriend no one said anything to the Bishop.

I am growing tired of the attacks against our Church and the Holy Father. When the media is through with us they will start attacking other denominations. The newest reports go back 30-50 years, are they going to go back 100 years soon. Most of the priests are dead and can’t defend themselves. I also see many Catholics who have already judged Pope Benedict without any proof except what a radical newspaper has said. Shame on those Catholics. Maybe we should pray that unless these liberal Catholics who don’t want to follow the teachings of the Church and are looking for an excuse should join my former church where anything goes.

Sorry about my anger but this subject has been played out and we as Catholics need to start praying for the victims and that the Church will be cleansed of all who commit abuse.

There are many many holy priests who have suffered greatly because of a few. We have over a billion members, many more than all the other denominations put together and to expect that the Vatican can keep track of every person who has committed these sins is impossible. Many victims were paid off 30 years ago which makes their parent complicit for accepting money instead of going to the police. And here they are again wanting more money. My daughter was abused by a married man at the age of 3 1/2 and the police did nothing to bring him to justice. That was societies mindset 25 years ago. Can I go back and sue the police department? I doubt it, they are protected and they covered up what happened to her.

I could say more but I will stop now, as being a victim myself I have a different perpspective on teenagers who have said they were abused.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
Dear Bernadette,

I am sorry for what happened to you and your daughter. I myself have suffered abuse, but I also had a lot of love. The Lord always tells me to look forward to Him and not back to what I have lost. It is not always easy as there are many reminders to keep these awful experiences fresh in my mind. I learned to forgive those who perpetrated the sins against me but I have not fully forgiven myself. I could only imagine what these poor abused children are going through. Though children are resilient, taking away their innocence is one of the most evil acts one can commit. I don’t think this is a question of us forgiving the pedophiles but of making sure that these perpetrators do not have a place in a ‘civilized’ society. Remember that Cain was rejected yet branded that no one would kill him. These criminals should be branded and rejected from entering a community where children are present.

I pray for you and your family. God Bless:)

I also pray, as you do, for the CC and the Pope. This is definitely a time of trial for us, but there will be a purification and the Holy Spirit will strengthen us and the CC. I also pray for the abused and that the HS will give them peace and God’s Mercy.
 
Celibacy is a part of fallowing Jesus. The apostles gave up everything to fallow Jesus, even their family’s, so the bishops and priests have given up there family’s to fallow Christ in a more intimate way than any other vocation or occupation could provide.

Celibacy and abstinence are not going to change, it is a simple matter of self control and respect. It is a key and unchanging catholic dogma. Fornication is not good for anybody, not for the children that could result, or the people who give into to lust.

see post #5
Josh,

If you look at the context of my post, I believe we are in agreement. I do not have a desire for Rome to change their views on celibacy and priests. It would not solve the problem, as others have astutely pointed out, and it would cause more harm in other areas. Sorry if I was not clear about that in my post.

SP
 
In my former church, the Episcopal church, of the priests that I knew one was married with children and he was a pedephile who molested boys in the parish. He just moved on to another parish. This was covered up.

Another priest was having an affair with a member of the parish and his wife was ill.

Another priest was married with 5 children, he and his wife adopted a teenage girl and he ended up in a sexual relationship with her and divorced his wife and married the girl.

I also knew of 4 priests that were homosexual and two of them had their partners attend their parishes.

This sexual abuse is abundant in every denomination, although when we point this out to protestants they accuse us of trying to divert the attention away from the Catholic Church. This is not the reason for informing others that the problem is all around us. … It is not an excuse for any abuse of children.
Bernadette, ( I am replying to your entire post, but had to shorten the quote to meet the post limit)

You make very many valid points. However, there are fundamental differences between, lets say Episcopalians or Evangelicals, for that matter, and the Church.
First of all, Episcopalians place no higher burden or expectations regarding sexual orientation, abortion, contraception, etc, than society. One could argue that they are even more liberal than mainstream society in these areas. So any abuse that falls within what is considered a normal reflection of the current state of society should be expected. It is not as hypocritical.

Also, considering every other religious affiliation, be it independent Baptists, or collegial communions such as the Episcopalians. They are viewed as being subject to the processes of the state, DCFS and other secular protective angencies etc plus state laws. If there is an infraction, it is less likely to be associated with the entire organization and DCFS is just as likely to be blaimed as well as the single church or pastor. This is the result of their inherent structure.

One of the things that make the RC situation unique is its structure. The Vatican is technically its own country with its Swiss “army”. Even though the church claims it respects the laws of individual countries, there is the perception by some that they merely tolerate them and sometimes use their vast resources to circumvent them. Again, it is inherent by the very nature of the structure and reach of the Church, even if those perceptions are false, they are there.

A perfect example is the recent report of an alleged incident in 2005 in Minnesota. The priest was transferred to India! Regardless of his guilt or innocence, few religious organizations could accomplish that feat. A pedophile Evangelical will stay in the US, and has no Pope. That Evangelical will easily fall into the US justice system and will be seen as fully there in the first place.

But now a Roman Catholic priest is in an extradition battle between the US and India. Two things here. All extradition battles make the news. If the Evangelical pedophile fled of his own accord to, let’s say Peru, it would be perceived that way. But in this case, Rome transferred a priest to India. The priest did not flee. And it is the perception that Rome could order him back to the US, or take some action.

Instead, so far nothing is being done by Rome concerning this incident. As a result, it is perceived as protecting or harboring, rightly or wrongly, even if the man is completely innocent. It doesn’t matter. Because of the structure and power of the Church, the Church ends up embroiled in an extradition controversy, and appears to just sit back and let the individual nations fight it out. But Rome is the cause of this extradition battle in the first place. They moved him. They have that power. They claim that authority and right.

It is endemic of the RC structure. So the press is always going to come down harder on the Church because of this. I am not suggesting a change to the structure of the Church. I am just stating why it receives so much attention.

The solution, imo: as I stated before, Rome needs to do something. Take action. Use its power and authority. Defrocking a few priests who are directly responsible would be a good start. Yes some have happened, but it is generally a discreet affair. The solution needs to come from Rome though, whatever it is; not extraditions and slow investigations involving several countries. Of course the press will feed on this in a frenzy.

SP
 
Here we go again, seems that the Church is getting thumped wherever it turns.
I am hoping that there will be an uproar within the church to route out all evil.
Name them and shame them I say. Get the homos out the pedophiles and all that are heretics that are shaming our Church.
Why the abuse on little children i would never know , from clergy , shame on them shame shame shame!
Evil will not be tolerated, Jesus will prevail!
Yes, even one occurrence is too many and these people certainly should be turned over to the police so that the Church and be purged of those who have no business being in the priesthood.
However, if you look at the actual rate of abuse, you will find that it is far less common in The Church than it is in Protestant denominations, about 10% of the rate in Public Schools and infinitesimal compared to youth sports. The difference is that the media focus on the occurrences in The Church and ignore it when it occurs in other areas.
 
Yes, even one occurrence is too many and these people certainly should be turned over to the police so that the Church and be purged of those who have no business being in the priesthood.
However, if you look at the actual rate of abuse, you will find that it is far less common in The Church than it is in Protestant denominations, about 10% of the rate in Public Schools and infinitesimal compared to youth sports. The difference is that the media focus on the occurrences in The Church and ignore it when it occurs in other areas.
The reason the media focuses on it and ignores it in other areas is the same reason the media will focus on the White House or Illinois Governors instead of city council members-- indiscreet comments from a professor at Harvard instead of the superintendent of district 469.

Statistics are meaningless in some situations.

And protestants don’t lump themselves together, that’s why there are a kazillion different branches of them- so again, statistics are meaningless when it comes to the media.

Here is a secular example. One or two Hollywood or Pop stars die from prescription medications. The media did not care before about this issue, but now it’s everywhere, regardless of the statistics, the “fraternity” of doctors are now under the lens.
 
The Magesterium has nothing to do with moving priests around.That is not their function.So the scandals have nothing to do with the Magisterium.
I lived celibate life a long time before I married-was I prone to child abuse when celibate?Did it disappear when married? The problem is far flung one.I remember an article written in “christianity Today” about 20 yrs ago,that said that these kinds of problems were endemic in society and since churches are part of society this would be a serious problem for all churches.And it is
.I know of no one personally, who has been abused by a minister or priest.But I know of a dozen who have been abused by their father/brother/relative /friends.It is so frequent but almost completely ignored when it happens in a family-like somehow it is a “family” problem and not society’s. A friend of mine once said when the scandals broke that children who suffered abuse , no matter where, would finally stopped being ignored.She was very disappointed to discover they still are being ignored by society because no one wants to believe that the worst , most consistent abuse, by someone you probably know, happens all around you in families.
Your point reminds me of an article I read recently

abyssum.wordpress.com/2010/04/09/sam-miller-a-jew-offers-an-amazing-defense-of-the-catholic-church-in-the-united-states/
 
I am a Catholic who wonders about our priest, and Jesus’ warning: “Beware of wolves who come in sheep’s clothing.” The many revelations of sexual attacks on our children has left me feeling angry and helpless.

How high in this perverted priesthood does this horror crime on our children extend? Pope? Cardinals? We need radical action NOW! Our children should be kept away from the priests, at least, not left alone with them. Who can we trust?

The Catholic women should demand, with anger, that 50% of the Cardinals resign, and their places taken by respected Catholic women, and the Cardinals’ chairperson be a woman with the tie-breaking vote. The cardinals who remain will be thoroughly investigated by the women.

Jesus left us two commandments to love: love of God and love of neighbour. When it comes to love, woman are the experts. A wise man once said, “We will never solve the world’s problems until men learn to love like women”.

We can be certain the Catholic mothers will clean house!
 
we as a society have promtoed sex too much. sex is natural, sex is fine, everyone should have sex. its in the media, books, movies newspaper, TV, etc. we are led to believe that if we fall in love with someone, sex is a natural part of that emotion

funny that when priests fall prey into this ideology that we as a society is propagating, we get angry. why? is it really their fault or ours? we have glamorized sex outside of marriage so much in the last 20-30 years. one of the shows i loved growing up and its a very popular show, Friends, glamorizes sex so much. when a character like Ross doesn’t have sex for a month, he speaks of it like he was deprived of something he needed to live. thats the message we’re sending out. check every show now, even on TV when the characters fall in love, sex is inevitable. this is a snapshot of our society. and yet we expect our priests to be above and beyond to resist this kind of temptation with this kind of “advertising”

i’m not saying this makes what happened as okay. but let us look around and see what we’re turning the world into. and this does not only affect the priests, it affects everyone. because we promote sex, everyone would want it. and those who cannot get it the “normal” way, would seek other methods to acquire it

look at society in general. prostitution, incest, rape, etc. and we have the gall to just accuse priests? its everyones fault that we’ve tolerated the promotion of sex for far too long. we must stop it at its source. promiscuity leads to so many evils. this clergy pedophelia sex scandal is just one of the many, many evils. even if we solve this, what of the others? fix it at its source. stop glamorizing sex and leave it where it should be, in the bedroom of married couples
 
I am a Catholic who wonders about our priest, and Jesus’ warning: “Beware of wolves who come in sheep’s clothing.” The many revelations of sexual attacks on our children has left me feeling angry and helpless.

How high in this perverted priesthood does this horror crime on our children extend? Pope? Cardinals? We need radical action NOW! Our children should be kept away from the priests, at least, not left alone with them. Who can we trust?

The Catholic women should demand, with anger, that 50% of the Cardinals resign, and their places taken by respected Catholic women, and the Cardinals’ chairperson be a woman with the tie-breaking vote. The cardinals who remain will be thoroughly investigated by the women.

Jesus left us two commandments to love: love of God and love of neighbour. When it comes to love, woman are the experts. A wise man once said, “We will never solve the world’s problems until men learn to love like women”.

We can be certain the Catholic mothers will clean house!
why are we replacing Cardinals with women? i don’t see how that solves the issue
an no, we cannot do that. the clergy should come from the men, just as Jesus instituted
 
Another thing that we have to keep in mind. A person memory of things chang over the years. I Still have problems with the person that says so had so did such and such to me 30 years ago and this is the first any one is hearing of it.

In America a person is presumed innocent till it is proven that they are guilty. I know that the way i remember events that happened to me 30 - 35 years ago I’m 44 may not have happend just the way I remember it.

I am not deffending thos that committed these horrible crimes. I am saying not all that have been accused are guiltly. We need to pray for our Preist and fight for both them and our children.
I agree that not all accused are guilty. I do take an exception to you saying you have problems when a person says they did such and such to me 30 years ago. I was molested at age 7 by a neighbor (married with 3 kids) not a priest. I never told anyone until confronted 20 years later by another victim and it took another 20 years to be able to face it in therapy to the point I can talk about it (although not without crying). Unless you’ve been a victim you have no idea how long it takes to come to terms with it. I actually tend to believe them when there’s a lag because I have been through it and understand.

I will also point out that anything as traumatic as molestation is unlikely to be mis-remembered in any important details. You were either forced into a terrifying situation or you weren’t. You may forget the exact date or time, but not what happened to you - I don’t care if it happened 5 years ago or 50 - talk to the victims and you’ll know.

As Catholics we all know that our sexuality is tied into our identity in a very special way which is why we say it should happen only within marriage. Since we are the few people any more who believe that, we should particularly understand the horror of what molestation does to a developing child.
 
I am a Catholic who wonders about our priest, and Jesus’ warning: “Beware of wolves who come in sheep’s clothing.” The many revelations of sexual attacks on our children has left me feeling angry and helpless.

How high in this perverted priesthood does this horror crime on our children extend? Pope? Cardinals? We need radical action NOW! Our children should be kept away from the priests, at least, not left alone with them. Who can we trust?

The Catholic women should demand, with anger, that 50% of the Cardinals resign, and their places taken by respected Catholic women, and the Cardinals’ chairperson be a woman with the tie-breaking vote. The cardinals who remain will be thoroughly investigated by the women.

Jesus left us two commandments to love: love of God and love of neighbour. When it comes to love, woman are the experts. A wise man once said, “We will never solve the world’s problems until men learn to love like women”.

We can be certain the Catholic mothers will clean house!
You are kidding Right? It is attitudes like this why good decent preist ( which the vast majority are) are afraid to go out in public with their collar on showing. they are are of being physically and or verbally accussted. It is also one of the most sexist things I have read in a long time to suggest that any problem can be fixed just by replaceing the one in authority with people of the opposit sex is completely insane.

While I am at it I may as well go whole hog if all women that you want to replace the cardinals with are so good at at finding the problems why it that most all of these case are 10 and 30 years old? Seems the mothers of these children would have known and done something back thenby your reasonning.

Any child that has been abused, be it by a preist, teacher, coach, parent, neighbor, relative, or whomever needs are prayers and support. The person whoe did the abuseing needs to be dealt with to the fullest extent of the Law.
Yes the Church needs to clean house, but dont throw the baby out with the bath water. You can not condem very preist on the actions of a small few.

There are 42,271 priests in america and the precentage of them involved in this is less than 5 %. that is 5% to many but ypu can not condem them all. This means that 95% are not involed.

heres a bit of news ,

**Sex Abuse by Teachers Said Worse Than Catholic Church
Jon E. Dougherty, Newsmax
Monday, Apr. 05, 2004 **

between 6 percent and 10 percent of public school children across the country have been sexually abuseCharol Shakeshaft, the Hofstra University scholar who prepared the report, said the number of abuse cases—which range from unwanted sexual comments to rape—could be much higher.

“So we think the Catholic Church has a problem?” she told industry newspaper Education Week in a March 10 interview.

To support her contention, Shakeshaft compared the priest abuse data with data collected in a national survey for the American Association of University Women Educational Foundation in 2000. Extrapolating data from the latter, she estimated roughly 290,000 students experienced some sort of physical sexual abuse by a school employee from a single decade—1991-2000. That compares with about five decades of cases of abusive priests.

Such figures led her to contend "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests.

and I would venture a guess that there is as many if not more woemen working in the schools.
 
I agree that all evil should be rooted out of the church wherever it’s found and that any clergy found guilty of any crime sexual or otherwise should be punished or disciplined for their actions / inactions as the case may be.

However the passage “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” comes to mind. My view is that while we must ensure that we carry out justice we must also be merciful to all including pedophile priests since we have all sinned and fallen short. Let expose evil wherever we find it but treat the offenders and victims both with the justice and mercy and compassion of Jesus our Lord also. If not then we will not befit to be called christian. How many times should we forgive? Not seven times but seventy times seven times 🙂
Well does that same concept apply to lay sexual offenders? They get put on a sex offender registry so everyone can look them up online. And that’s a good thing. But if we’re gonna do that to sex offenders, than the offending priests should be on there too. They are sex offenders as well.
 
Firstly, ordained men may not marry. The Eastern churches ordain married men. A seemingly minor detail but important.

Your talk of “rooting out homos and pedophiles” seems to come from an attitude of bigotry. God’s love extends to all sinners. The Church is not (only) a museum of saints, it is a hospital for sinners. All are welcome to partake, if only in the sacrament of Reconciliation, to heal their broken spirits and experience not just the unbounded love of God, but the love of other human beings as well.

To paraphrase Archbishop Michael Sheehan, never put your faith in human beings, because they will inevitably let you down. Rather, put your faith in Jesus Christ and the sacraments of the Church, because they never fail or disappoint.
So if that were the case, then why are we putting everyone who has committed sexual crimes on the sex offender registry? Should we not extend our forgiveness to them? Shouldn’t the offending priests be put on the registry as well?
 
I am a Catholic who wonders about our priest, and Jesus’ warning: “Beware of wolves who come in sheep’s clothing.” The many revelations of sexual attacks on our children has left me feeling angry and helpless.

How high in this perverted priesthood does this horror crime on our children extend? Pope? Cardinals? We need radical action NOW! Our children should be kept away from the priests, at least, not left alone with them. Who can we trust?

The Catholic women should demand, with anger, that 50% of the Cardinals resign, and their places taken by respected Catholic women, and the Cardinals’ chairperson be a woman with the tie-breaking vote. The cardinals who remain will be thoroughly investigated by the women.

Jesus left us two commandments to love: love of God and love of neighbour. When it comes to love, woman are the experts. A wise man once said, “We will never solve the world’s problems until men learn to love like women”.

We can be certain the Catholic mothers will clean house!
You just had to mention ordaining Women. Let the forum war begin. :rolleyes:
 
So if that were the case, then why are we putting everyone who has committed sexual crimes on the sex offender registry?
Why indeed! Is there any evidence that doing this prevents any further abuse by these offenders?
Should we not extend our forgiveness to them?
Yes. Forgiveness does not mean forgetting to be prudent.
Shouldn’t the offending priests be put on the registry as well?
Not until they are convicted in a court of law.
 
I agree that not all accused are guilty. I do take an exception to you saying you have problems when a person says they did such and such to me 30 years ago. I was molested at age 7 by a neighbor (married with 3 kids) not a priest. I never told anyone until confronted 20 years later by another victim and it took another 20 years to be able to face it in therapy to the point I can talk about it (although not without crying). Unless you’ve been a victim you have no idea how long it takes to come to terms with it. I actually tend to believe them when there’s a lag because I have been through it and understand.

I will also point out that anything as traumatic as molestation is unlikely to be mis-remembered in any important details. You were either forced into a terrifying situation or you weren’t. You may forget the exact date or time, but not what happened to you - I don’t care if it happened 5 years ago or 50 - talk to the victims and you’ll know.

As Catholics we all know that our sexuality is tied into our identity in a very special way which is why we say it should happen only within marriage. Since we are the few people any more who believe that, we should particularly understand the horror of what molestation does to a developing child.
I apoligize to you and anyone else that may have been offended. That was not my intent. Nor do I question the seriousness of and trauma of molestation. Now I do not know how to respond without further offence.
First of all I will say that as a child I had and adult pin me to the floor and pull my pants off. I will not go any further but to say I do not believe I was molested by him, and 35 years ago when it happened no one thought anything about it. I could have this 70 year old man today put in jail for something that to him was no more that teaseing of a kid. Did it bother my when it happened? And it still does I was violated. It also effected the trust I had in my parents as they were in the house when it happened, and I still say I was not molested.

Do I do have some insight into what I was saying.
 
True, But how can you forgive a pedophile or let alone trust him?
Root them out and start afresh!
Make it compulsory for priests to marry ,The Catholic Maronites of Lebanon have that option, and it does work,
You don’t think there are pedophiles that are married?
 
Another thing that we have to keep in mind. A person memory of things chang over the years. I Still have problems with the person that says so had so did such and such to me 30 years ago and this is the first any one is hearing of it.

In America a person is presumed innocent till it is proven that they are guilty. I know that the way i remember events that happened to me 30 - 35 years ago I’m 44 may not have happend just the way I remember it.

I am not deffending thos that committed these horrible crimes. I am saying not all that have been accused are guiltly. We need to pray for our Preist and fight for both them and our children.
Trust me if you had of been molested for however long it is something you will never forget. Been there done that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top