Why the bible is most assuredly not a Catholic book,

[Hisalone]

Paul instruct the Romans and Peter too was in Rome. The Catholic Church does not teach false doctrine. It’s the Protestants who came up with new doctrine of Sola Scriptura and Faith Alone, which no Early Christians in the first Century, and centuries after that.

Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide are to be understood in the backdrop of the times that they occured. What were the teachings of Rome preReformation on Faith and on Scripture vs tradition. To do otherwise is to deny history.

 

[Hisalone]

It is you that calls them idols. Do you know our hearts? Do not make yourself omniscient, as only God knows our hearts. It is your lack of understanding that causes your fear. Why not first pray for understanding. It will be given to you. Until then, you reveal only your lack of understanding of the church Christ founded.

Before speaking, pray for understanding. It is that important.

I have personally witnessed this. Open you own eyes

 

[Hisalone]

Actually, up until the great schism in the late 900’s all churches were with Rome ( I said with, Catholics and Orthodox can question to what disagree that is a battle for another thread ). They were not independent churches They were THE Church that is in Ethiopia, THE Church that is in Corinthia, ETC… they were not just the church of ( name city) They were all part of THE Church. And the Church in ( name of city) included all the gathering places in that area. Each area under a Bishop chosen by I believe the other bishops as the need arose as it was passed to them from the Apostles who received if from Christ.

Each Christian is not his own little bishop. Of all those that were followers of Christ he chose 12 to give his Authority to and ave passed that on thought the life of THE Church to those selected not to all believers. The Role and Authority which Christ gave to the Apostles is a burden few are can care. I thank God I do not have to be my own bishop.

So Coptic Christians dont count?
Can it be suprising that other bishops Coptic, Eastern, Ethiopian etc do not agree with Rome in regards to Romes primacy?
Jesus said to His disciples not to be like the gentile rulers and lord over, Yet this is exactly what Rome has done.

 

[Hisalone]

Hisalone, is fracturing of the Body of Christ somehow desirable? Was it taught by Christ? Was it taught or practiced by the Apostles? Was it honored, or was it strenuously fought against in the early church?

If any answer is no, then why persist in such behavior or desires? In separating from the Church of Christ, going one’s own way, finding or propounding doctrines that are acceptable to the ego, just how are you serving the cause of Christ?

Where is the denial of self here? Where is the taking up of one’s own cross daily? If you do not first deny yourself and then take up your cross, you cannot follow Christ. Christ said that. I believe Him, and I try to obey as best I can.

You may prefer doctrines which are more acceptable, but does that not make you resemble the John 6:66 followers who went their own way?

These questions may be rhetorical in nature, but shouldn’t you and I ponder them?

Jesus instructed His disciples not to lord over as the gentiles do yet that is exactly what Rome has done. Weare not seperated when we are in Christ.
When we put Christ first we are one. When we put false definitions of “church” before Christ and His body we are fractured. The root of the fracture has always abided in Rome.

 

[Zooey]

Okay, did Luther translate Rom. 3:28 to fit his personal theology that we are saved by faith alone and that Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church were unnecessary? If so, by what authority did he do this?

Well…According to Luther himself, “It is so because Dr Luther says it is so”.
(Personally, Dr Zooey has been “saying” that “Zooey is a billionaire” for years now… Hasn’t worked yet. This may be a part of why I am no fan of Luther).

Luther’s actions in his life were based upon fear and his own inadequacies. He joined the Church when a violent thunderstorm struck while he was in the forest. To save himself he pledged to St. Anne that he would become a monk. This is important as he did not choose to be a monk, or feel a calling.

I have believed for some time that Luther had no vocation. I think he was a very unhappy person, actually…

PerryJ:

The concise History of the Catholic Church Page 210: As he (Luther) continued with his study of theology, he fell prey to moods of general depression; he suffered terrible trials of anguish of spirit, with sudden spasms of terror and despair gripping his heart, a torment so shattering, he said, that had it lasted even the tenth part of an hour, his bones would have crumbled into ashes. Deeply conscious of his sinfulness and guilt, he felt that any moment he might be struck down by the living God and cast into Hell. Craving certainty, he confessed frequently, even daily fasted and prayed; but he found little relief. And then in the extremes of his agony he even cried out his hatred of God, which in turn exacerbated his feelings of guilt. “For I hoped I might find peace of conscience with fasts, prayer, vigils with which I miserably afflicted my body, but the more I sweated it out like this, the less peace and tranquility I knew,” he wrote … “The crisis was resolved…when I juxtaposed the phrase “justice of God” with “the just man shall live by faith’ in Romans 1:17. It was the starting point and remained the key to his distinctive theology and as such the basis of all subsequent reformation theology. It is clear that in essentials this theology was completed before the beginning of his great struggle in 1517”.

I personally believe that Martin Luther was mentally disturbed. Everything posted here makes me all the more certain that this was most likely true.

 

[Gamera]

What the Holy Ghost confirms no man can deny!

That’s why I’m Catholic.

 

[Hisalone]

because they been tought that Catholics are not christians adn when they come to the table, they have one thing in mind to inform us of the SS. they dont come to listen, they come to preach to us.

There are many Catholic Christians. those that put Christ first not some flase definition of “church” first.

 

[Hisalone]

:yawn:

 

[Hisalone]

“I would not believe in the Gospel myself if the authority of the Catholic Church did not influence me to do so.”
St. Augustine, Against the letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D.

It is by Gods word that we are brought from darkness into light

 

[Gamera]

It is by Gods word that we are brought from darkness into light

Actually it is by God’s grace that we are brought by darkness into light. We receive His grace through the sacraments which are administered by the Church. Therefore, the Church is intimately involved in our relationship with God.

 

[VWcrazy]

The root of the fracture has always abided in Rome.

LOL! What a crack-up.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Christianity was not a new religion but a maturing or a completing the Jewish religion. Christianity did not begin in a vacum.
The translator BTW rejected the apocrypha however he translated the words that were scribed by Jews.

The same Jews that persecuted the Lord and cried out, “crucify Him, crucify Him!”

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I was for decades. Do the Scriptures depict one particular denomination as the Church Jesus founded? Read the Scriptures where Jesus founded his Church. Did he say that all of his followers would be of one institution and all under one roof?? Absolutely not. That’s because he meant nothing of the such.

Joh 10:16 And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.

Eph 4:3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call,
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.

Rom 16:17 I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of those who create dissensions and difficulties, in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; avoid them.

1Co 1:10 I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

Php 2:2 complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.

Rom 15:5 May the God of steadfastness and encouragement grant you to live in such harmony with one another, in accord with Christ Jesus,
Rom 15:6 that together you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Joh 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
Joh 17:18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
Joh 17:19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
Joh 17:20 "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word,
Joh 17:21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
Joh 17:23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.

1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body–Jews or Greeks, slaves or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

Rom 12:4 For as in one body we have many members, and all the members do not have the same function,
Rom 12:5 so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call,

Col 3:15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in the one body. And be thankful.

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

 

[Isa_Almisry]

First: Shalom!

Second: What??? No Pharisee’s in the New Testament??? Ooops…somebody missed something!! In my check of the Douay-Rhiems on line… it shows “Pharisee’s” 86 times in Mathew, Mark and Luke!!

Didn’t say there weren’t.

Just said your Talmud was written after the NT.

Amazing, as the basis for the Church is the Pentatuch, both in its narrow and wider sense.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Do the Hebrew texts of the deuterocanonical books recovered at Qumran predate the Greek or are they Hebrew translations of an original Greek text?

The Hebrew is attested of Sirach, for instance, because 1) Sirach specifically says he translated it from Hebrew 2) The Syriac is translated from the Hebrews. 3) the qumran fragments match, with minor variation, the text from the Cairo Genizah copied by Jews in the 11-12th century. 4) the rabbis quote and comment on it in the Talmud.

Btw, the Dead Sea Scrolls are not the only BC fragments of the OT that agree with the Hebrew vorlage of the LXX.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Thanks I have fixed it.

Reminds me of the heavy fine a publisher in London had to pay when they left out the “not” in “thou shall not commit adultery.” :bigyikes:

 

[Isa_Almisry]

It is by Gods word that we are brought from darkness into light

Joseph Smith Jr., is that you?
:bigyikes:

 

[Isa_Almisry]

The same Jews that persecuted the Lord and cried out, “crucify Him, crucify Him!”

I think the Romans (and all us sinners) had a hand in nailing Him to the Cross.

 

[CoboltBlue]

Everyone of its books (with the possible exception of one) was written by a Jew.

Did you not hear that Jesus was a Jew?
And the Bible is our instruction from the Father of Jesus, GOD.

Your Bible contains additiions to it and changes made by the council of Trent where they basically said that the word of God was not enough and they were going to add their own traditions and dogmas.
In the Bible of the God of Issaic, Abraham and Jacob, God says not to add to my word or subtract from it…Deut. 4.

So why would you choose to follow a man made church that adds to the word of God, rather than God. himself? I know it is too simple and easy…God wants it that way. He does not try to purposly trip people up. God seeks after us and wants our friendship.

If you have Jesus Christ in your life you don’t need anything else. You do good works but you do not do them to earn your way into heaven. God is not keeping score.

 

[chosen_people]

The same Jews that persecuted the Lord and cried out, “crucify Him, crucify Him!”

May the peace of the Lord be with you,
Prodigal Son1

On the one hand:
Yehoshua bar Yosef is so dangerously popular that the Romans see fit to arrest him and crucify him as the “KIng of the Jews” yet he is seemingly so unpopular the he is universally condemned by the entire local population?
( Incidentally, in the part of the story concerning the condemnation by the Sanhedrin the person who wrote the story apparently didn’t know that under Jewish law you cannot condemn someone unless someone is willing to speak in his defense.)

And on the other hand:
A human being, a Jew no less. claiming that he is God incarnate come down to earth and that you should abandon Torah? What could be more antithetical to Judaism? How could any Jew who loves God and his religion have reacted in any other way?

And why have so many Christians felt over the centuries that not only should the Jews be punished for not abandoning God’s covenant with them but that He requires their help to do so?