Why the big fuss over homosexuality?

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teenagethinker

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What is the big deal with homosexuality? How does it hurt you?
Not all people believe in the Xian God, who are you to tell them there wrong about the way they live? Just some thoughts…
 
Your username is truly accurate. If you think anyone here is going to respond to your blatant troll with diatribe, you must be thinking like a teenager. Why don’t you go read a book? Perhaps the Bible?
 
You don’t have to appeal to religion to show that sexuality is oriented to procreation. Homosexual activity, on the other hand, is inherently anti-procreative. Calling it an offense against human dignity can be established using reason alone.
 
one can say that homosexuality is a form of population control. Can they not? Vincent, is sexuality more linked to procreation or pleasure in today’s society? Birth control takes the point out of procreation, so why even have sex other than it is a pleasurable experience and that it makes a special “bond” between you and your partner? Human dignity is not a concrete thing, your concept of dignity may be radically different than anothers. And GoodKnight, why don’t you adopt a new state of mind, maybe one that actually answers questions?
 
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teenagethinker:
What is the big deal with homosexuality? How does it hurt you?
Not all people believe in the Xian God, who are you to tell them there wrong about the way they live? Just some thoughts…
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Teenage:

This is a CATHOLIC FORUM, which means that we agree with the Church’s &/or the Bible’s interpretation on most issues when they can be established.

The Church and the Bible are quite clear about ANY sex outside of the confines of marriage, and the Church is quite clear in her teaching regarding any sex which is not at least open to procreation, and how all of the above SEPARATE us from God and from our designed natures and potentials.

The Church and the Bible also both say that Separation from God results in Permanent Spiritual Death.

The Church and the Bible are also quite clear that “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners” (I Tim 1:15) and that we “Might have life and have it more abundantly” (John 10:10).

ecclesia.org/truth/why_jesus.html

I say Morning Office that includes, “God desires not the death of a sinner, but that he should turn from his wickedness and live.”

Does the God you believe in have the power to raise you up on the Last Day? Does he have the power to save you from your sins? Does he have the power to give you hope when you would would otherwise have none?

MIne does, and so does the one of most of my fellow believers on this board:

“Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up – if in fact the dead do not rise. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.”
1 Corinthians 15:12-20
trinitymoscow.org/Sermons/sermon030420.htm

I will always say from whom i borrow. It’s only fair.

If you think I just might be right, Repeat this:

*“Our father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who tresspass against us.
Lead us not into Temptation, but deliver us from evil.” *
Luke 2: 2-4

The Aramaic word for Father meant “Daddy”. Think of calling the Creator of all the Universes “Daddy”!

An expanded version, which you can meditate on, is found here:
theworkofgod.org/Library/Trinity/Father/god_our_father.htm

Once you’ve done that, find a parish and tell the Priest you want to become a Catholic. You might as well go ahead and go all the way.

Even if what we are saying makes perfect sense to you, you’ll fight it tooth and nail if you don’t.

In Him, MIchael
 
Greetings Teenagethinker!

You have asked a question that would require a rather lengthy response. I will try and raise a few points that might be useful.

You also seem to indicate that you believe that morality is determined by society. On the other hand, Catholics believe that while morality can be revealed (as in revealed by God through Scripture and Tradition) and can be discovered. I would argue that’s why we see so much moral agreement among different cultures through different times and places. This might be a useful area of discussion.

Further in this line you say “who are you to tell them there wrong about the way they live?” I have an answer and two counter questions. The answer is this…we are people who using reason have come to believe in (or if we were born into the faith-continue to believe) that the Catholic Church is what she says she is and we can trust her to teach us truly and her teachings, in full accordance with reason show to us that people engaging in homosexual genital acts cause harm to themselves and others, we must, out of love for them, declare that fact.

The first of my counter question is “If someone was doing something that you believe to be harmful to them, wouldn’t you say something to them about it?” If not, could you say that you actually cared about them? Love causes me to speak out when someone is doing something that I believe hurts them and society even if I must suffer to do so.

The second counter question is who are you to tell us that we can’t say that we believe that people engaging in sax sex gential acts is injurious to them and society? I’m not trying to be sarcastic or rude, my point is, that your question, in a way, contradicts itself. You don’t like us telling other people what we think and that they should cease a certain behavior, but then you have come to us and told us that we should cease a certain behavior that you don’t like. Aren’t you engaging in the same behavior that you criticize?

I am very poor in terms of discussing this issue, but I can offer some links that might be of help to you in terms of homosexuality. They link to a group of people with same sex attraction who have decided to try and live chaste lives according to the teachings of the Catholic Church:
couragerc.net/
couragerc.net/MemberTestimonies.html (testimony links are on the left)

This link talks in general about a particular (and from what little I have read, excellent) understanding of our bodies and sexuality:
theologyofthebody.net/

Peace in Christ!
Frank
ps my email access is rather limited, so I may not be able to respond soon, but I hope if I don’t, others will carry on 🙂
 
Leaving religion entirely out of it, one can deduce from the way they are made that males and females fit together, and that males and males or females and females do not. Therefore, homosexuality – if expressed in sexual behavior – is contrary to nature. The homosexual act is abberant, disordered. We need to look for the cause of homosexuality – which is probably psycho-social – and eliminate it.

JMJ Jay
 
What is “Xian” a city in China?

Lisa N

PS This is asked with all of the sincerity of your original question.
 
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teenagethinker:
And GoodKnight, why don’t you adopt a new state of mind, maybe one that actually answers questions?
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I actually find that amusing. Because your post is a classic troll, if you wanted answers you would ask an intelligent question. You joined this forum a few minutes before you posted, most likely with the intent of causing commotion. You obviouly have an agenda based on your other post in the lds/pro-life thread and the one you deleted.

Your use of “Xian God” is also suspicious. Xian God is a term used by athiests, wiccans, satanists, occustlists etc. and others who are attcking the Judeo-Christian belief system.

If you want to discuss issues, great, then do so. Don’t come in here and troll bait. You are not fooling me.
 
TeenageThinker:

You’re right that in today’s day and age most people want to see sex as nothing more than pleasure. However, that view isn’t consistent with the reality of what sex is all about. A person’s immediate motive might be excitement, but it can’t be denied that procreation is intrinsic to the very meaning of sex. If it isn’t, then there’s absolutely no point in using contraception.

Now what about human dignity? It’s based on the universal truths about human nature. These truths is built into what we are by virtue of being human, and since we have reason, it’s something we can access. We can know that reducing persons as objects to be used for our own utilitarian ends is incompatible with what we are. That’s something all of us, whether we’re religious or not, can figure out.

When we deliberately separate sexual pleasure from the procreative orientation that’s built into it we end up using each other as objects to satisfy our own desires for pleasure. The other is no longer a someone but merely something. That’s why anti-procreative sex like homosexual acts goes against human dignity.

You’re very perceptive about the link between society’s acceptance of contraception with society’s growing acceptance of homosexual activity. Both are based on an alternate “reality” that procreation is foreign to sex. But it’s not living in the real world. Heterosexual couples come face-to-face with reality when contraceptives fail: it shows that the procreative orientation of sex is there whether we choose to see it.

But why such a big fuss about sex? Well, since sexuality is deeply engrained in the human person, when we abuse sex we abuse each other. Such abuse naturally leaves deep wounds, and a society of walking wounded faces the threat of annihilating itself.
 
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teenagethinker:
one can say that homosexuality is a form of population control. Can they not? Vincent, is sexuality more linked to procreation or pleasure in today’s society? Birth control takes the point out of procreation, so why even have sex other than it is a pleasurable experience and that it makes a special “bond” between you and your partner? Human dignity is not a concrete thing, your concept of dignity may be radically different than anothers. And GoodKnight, why don’t you adopt a new state of mind, maybe one that actually answers questions?
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Who are you to control the population?In doing so you try to make yourself God.We don’t believe your a god.How dare You try to put your anti-theology on us?So what do you hope to accomplish here?God Bless
 
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teenagethinker:
Birth control takes the point out of procreation, so why even have sex other than it is a pleasurable experience and that it makes a special “bond” between you and your partner?
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You are right about that.

See, fellow Catholics? This is the fruit of acceptance of birth control. The hypocrisy of someone who uses artificial birth control and lectures against homosexuality is profound, and teenagers see it.

Teenthinker: That is why the Church is AGAINST artificial birth control. While your argument is credible against individual members of the faith who are not in line with Church teaching, but your argument does not hold water against Church teaching. The Church teaches that pleasure is a wonderful gift from God attached with procreation, but gaining pleasure is not the point of sexuality.
 
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teenagethinker:
What is the big deal with homosexuality? How does it hurt you?
Not all people believe in the Xian God, who are you to tell them there wrong about the way they live? Just some thoughts…
Click to expand...
Thinker,

I always find it helpful to look at things from both sides:

What is the big deal with Catholic belief? How does our belief in the sinfullness of this act hurt you? We do believe in the Christian God; who are you to tell us that we’re wrong about what we believe? Just some thoughts…
 
I have and have had many friends who practice a homosexual lifestyle.

I’'ve never seen such sad, empty-shell people in my life. They crusade for “understanding” yet they have no interest in understanding beliefs outside their own world. They really struggle, and contrary to what they say, their struggles are internal.

I love each and every one of them. I want them to experience the love of Christ and to be with him eternally in heaven.

But they are angry. They are defensive, and I find myself walking on eggshells around them.

I am female, and was a firefighter for awhile. There was a women’s association…but I was to learn that if I wasn’t a lesbian, then I wasn’t welcome. Yet as a Christian, I can say they will always be welcome in the Lord’s home.

I don’t choose to define my entire being by my reproductive organs. This is what practicing homosexuals do.

They don’t see that they are valuable human beings, but rather debase themselves by a definition ordained by satan. Who really wants to be identified by what they do between the sheets?

Don’t come to a Catholic forum and attack our faith. If you choose to do so you may find yourself at an RCIA class!

I will pray for you, and I can guarantee I am not the only one.
 
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teenagethinker:
What is the big deal with homosexuality? How does it hurt you?
Not all people believe in the Xian God, who are you to tell them there wrong about the way they live? Just some thoughts…
Click to expand...
Mr. 3 Total Posts,

At least spell it “Christian” and try to be cordial.

Gee, a high suicide rate, AIDS, STDs, higher incidence of drug abuse than normal people, higher incidence of depression, etc. etc. Do you want to have a society of people who are constantly afflicted by these ailments? From a societal perspective alone it’s much more advantageous to have heterosexual, married couples having children and contributing to society instead of engaging in a lifestyle of self-destructive behavior.
 
Hey folks,If you get irate with this clown he/she will be happy. That is what trolling is all about. Chances are we won’t see the smart alleck again.
 
Just on the off chance that you really want to know why people care about what other people do…

Imagine, if you would, that the conversation was about cutting yourself. Now don’t get all excited and argue about whether homosexuality is the same as cutting yourself. That’s not my point. The point is that people who don’t know you may care enough about you to tell you, “You may think this is normal and healthy, but it’s not and I am duty-bound to tell you it’s not and keep telling you it’s not, even if I’m the last person standing who says so.” That doesn’t mean you make people pariahs when they cut themselves. It does mean that you encourage the person to abandon the behavior and refuse to tacitly allow the person to hurt themselves in the name of friendship. And yes, no matter what “benefit” society got from it, you’d have to stand against it.

Likewise, abortion. If your neighbor was literally having babies and then killing them and thought nothing of it if the children hadn’t reached their first birthday, you could hardly do otherwise than bring the law in on them… and it would not matter how heart-wrenching their reasons or how humane their manner of infanticide was. If they did it because they were poverty-stricken, you’d see they got help. If there wasn’t a law against it, you’d work to see that there was. You’d plead with them not to do it, you’d pray for them.

Do you see? Tolerance does not mean having no thought for the lives of others. It doesn’t mean society can’t have commonly held morals, or that there won’t be taboo behaviors. It means stopping and thinking about whether what my neighbor is doing is literally wrong or rather just something I don’t happen to like. It means bringing about changes in societal norms within a framework of patient, loving, and civilized behavior, realizing that I, too, may have either some blind spots in my life or even sacred behaviors that might strike others as outrageous and unspeakable.

If you hold no morals that you believe to be self-evident–either from what we would call “natural law” or some idea of human dignity or something–then you are truly without a compass. If you care not whether anyone else lives a human and dignified life, then you have to stop and ask yourself: Why not? What could possibly be more important? You literally would not be alive without others, and certainly would not have anything like a full life. Your brother has been your keeper, and always will be. Once you’re a grown-up, it goes both ways.
 
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Katholikos:
Leaving religion entirely out of it, one can deduce from the way they are made that males and females fit together, and that males and males or females and females do not. Therefore, homosexuality – if expressed in sexual behavior – is contrary to nature. The homosexual act is abberant, disordered. We need to look for the cause of homosexuality – which is probably psycho-social – and eliminate it.

JMJ Jay
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leaving religion totaly out and only looking at nature humans are meant by nature like quite a lot of animals: Men should live with men and women should live with women, once a year men should meet women and mate with them, then leave them alone until next year, because men and women don’t really fit, don’t you think?

Joke aside from the way nature made women and men you cn deduce just plain nothing, because many species know homosexualism, so nature seems to have no problem with it, only religions do.

Werner
 
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Timidity:
Thinker,

I always find it helpful to look at things from both sides:

What is the big deal with Catholic belief? How does our belief in the sinfullness of this act hurt you? We do believe in the Christian God; who are you to tell us that we’re wrong about what we believe? Just some thoughts…
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Well the point is, the belief doesn’t hurt anybody, but when some try to make their belief the law of the land iot surely hurts others who don’t share those believes.
Easy thing one schould think, but obviously not for everybody…

Werner
 
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