Why the Catholic Church Can Never Ordain Women (YouTube video concerning Holy Orders)

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And no, I don’t want or expect doctrinal change, my only point would be, well, good PR. If we can do good PR in a theologically neutral way, maybe we should.

Plus, we stopped doing lay cardinals because they were almost always powerful aristocrats and politicians. Presumably, if the two examples I cite are any indication, orthodox theologians would be who would be selected in the present day would be the world’s leading orthodox theologians. And if we expand the pool to include the world’s leading orthodox theologians (including the women), then we may see an increase in the orthodoxy of the college.

But anyway, the point would be a teaching moment on how women can hold high places in the church, as they have historically (abbesses, protecteressses, etc.) without ever holding a liturgical office - which they cannot. It would not be ordaining women, and it would not be excluding them from one of the more important decidin making positions in the Church.

It may be a compromise to satisfy the theologically orthodox and the, well, more cafeteria-ish Catholics.
 
I am sorry, male priest cardinals was the intent of JPII, and Paul Vi putatively a male lay cardinal. Confusion.
 
HelenRose said:
The Church is what the Church is.

I don’t really understand why people who are adamantly opposed to the teachings of the Church remain in the Church.

And if one is not a member of the Church why is it so important to them for the Church to make these changes?
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I guess for the same reason that spouses who disagree about some things remain married, and some happily.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
I guess for the same reason that spouses who disagree about some things remain married, and some happily.
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Not quite the same.

When I disagree with my husband, I don’t bash him in public.

This bashing the Church and the Church’s teachings in public is what I can’t understand. To say to the world, “I am a Catholic. The Church is wrong. I don’t believe what the Church teaches. I want the Church to change. But I am a Catholic none-the-less.” Seems very strange to me indeed.

I don’t know what it means to these people to be Catholic.
 
HelenRose said:
Not quite the same.

When I disagree with my husband, I don’t bash him in public.

This bashing the Church and the Church’s teachings in public is what I can’t understand. To say to the world, “I am a Catholic. The Church is wrong. I don’t believe what the Church teaches. I want the Church to change. But I am a Catholic none-the-less.” Seems very strange to me indeed.

I don’t know what it means to these people to be Catholic.
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People are going to disagree on a DB. It doesn’t mean we don’t respect one another. I don’t believe in lay cardinals or women cardinals, but I still respect the opinions of those who do.

I disagree with the Church on a few minor issues, but I wouldn’t leave because of that. I don’t think the Catholic Church can please more than a billion members at any one time.

Disagreement - not bashing - sometimes helps iron out difficulties.

I believe you, of course, when you say you don’t disagree with your husband in public. However, many wives do bash their husbands in public, yet remain married.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
People are going to disagree on a DB. It doesn’t mean we don’t respect one another. I don’t believe in lay cardinals or women cardinals, but I still respect the opinions of those who do.

I disagree with the Church on a few minor issues, but I wouldn’t leave because of that. I don’t think the Catholic Church can please more than a billion members at any one time.

Disagreement - not bashing - sometimes helps iron out difficulties.

I believe you, of course, when you say you don’t disagree with your husband in public. However, many wives do bash their husbands in public, yet remain married.
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Both you and I know that ordaining women, abortion and same sex marriage are not minor differences between a person and the teachings of the Church.

What I would like to know is, what holds a person to a Church, who can not accept the Church’s teachings on these subjects. The Church is not going to change these dogmas.
 
What holds a person to a Religion when he or she longer believes in that Religion’s teachings?

Is it tradition?
History?
Childhood memories?
Family affiliations?
Business affiliations?
Services offered?

Is it a belief that the Religion will change to suit him or her?

I am not being facetious. I think that it is important to understand why a person will continue.

I was a Protestant once. And for most the above reasons it was terribly hard for me to leave my Church but, I did not agree with the teaching of my loved Church.

I felt that I was being hypocritical. I felt like, as I sat in the pews, I was misrepresenting who and what I really was.
 
HelenRose said:
Both you and I know that ordaining women, abortion and same sex marriage are not minor differences between a person and the teachings of the Church.

What I would like to know is, what holds a person to a Church, who can not accept the Church’s teachings on these subjects. The Church is not going to change these dogmas.
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When did abortion and SSM enter the conversation? I was never talking about those things.

No, the ordination of women is not a minor issue, but the Church will not consider that, and that’s fine with me. I do not believe in the ordination of women.

I simply said I disagree with the Church on some minor issues - not abortion, SSM, or the ordination of women - but those minor quibbles don’t affect my faith in God or the Church. I doubt I would leave the Church even over a large disagreement. It is the church Christ established and handed to his apostles. I have been Catholic all my life, and even grew up in a Carmelite cloister in France. I lived there thirteen years, from age five to eighteen. The Catholic Church has always been more than “the Church” to me. It has been my home, almost literally. Although I obtained degrees in drama and French in France, and began college in the US as an English major, I realized that the only thing I could really pursue was theology.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
When did abortion and SSM enter the conversation? I was never talking about those things.

No, the ordination of women is not a minor issue, but the Church will not consider that, and that’s fine with me. I do not believe in the ordination of women.

I simply said I disagree with the Church on some minor issues - not abortion, SSM, or the ordination of women - but those minor quibbles don’t affect my faith in God or the Church. I doubt I would leave the Church even over a large disagreement. It is the church Christ established and handed to his apostles. I have been Catholic all my life, and even grew up in a Carmelite cloister in France. I lived there thirteen years, from age five to eighteen. The Catholic Church has always been more than “the Church” to me. It has been my home, almost literally. Although I obtained degrees in drama and French in France, and began college in the US as an English major, I realized that the only thing I could really pursue was theology.
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A Catholic by choice!! Alleluia! LOL. There are many who are culturally Catholic (nothing wrong with that) or dogmatically Catholic (nothing wrong with that either.) People who choose to BE Catholic and remain Catholic are, in my opinion, a minority yet a growing segment of the Catholic Church today. I believe there’s a resurgence of faith and people like yourself are a large part of that movement. People seem to be learning more about the Catholic Church and have chosen it over the many Christian denominations. We’re not perfect but, as you say, we have been entrusted to care for Christ’s church on earth. Imperfect trustees of God’s perfect kingdom on earth.

God Bless you.👍
 
808Catholic said:
A Catholic by choice!! Alleluia! LOL. There are many who are culturally Catholic (nothing wrong with that) or dogmatically Catholic (nothing wrong with that either.) People who choose to BE Catholic and remain Catholic are, in my opinion, a minority yet a growing segment of the Catholic Church today. I believe there’s a resurgence of faith and people like yourself are a large part of that movement. People seem to be learning more about the Catholic Church and have chosen it over the many Christian denominations. We’re not perfect but, as you say, we have been entrusted to care for Christ’s church on earth. Imperfect trustees of God’s perfect kingdom on earth.

God Bless you.👍
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Thank you for the kind words! And God bless you, too. 🙂
 
I feel like I may be getting lumped into a category here - people can freely disagree over how the Church should proceed with prudential policy, without having ANY theological disagreement at all. I think that is something to keep in mind.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
When did abortion and SSM enter the conversation? I was never talking about those things.

No, the ordination of women is not a minor issue, but the Church will not consider that, and that’s fine with me. I do not believe in the ordination of women.

I simply said I disagree with the Church on some minor issues - not abortion, SSM, or the ordination of women - but those minor quibbles don’t affect my faith in God or the Church. I doubt I would leave the Church even over a large disagreement. It is the church Christ established and handed to his apostles. I have been Catholic all my life, and even grew up in a Carmelite cloister in France. I lived there thirteen years, from age five to eighteen. The Catholic Church has always been more than “the Church” to me. It has been my home, almost literally. Although I obtained degrees in drama and French in France, and began college in the US as an English major, I realized that the only thing I could really pursue was theology.
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Sorry. I jumped the gun.
 
claymcdermott said:
I feel like I may be getting lumped into a category here - people can freely disagree over how the Church should proceed with prudential policy, without having ANY theological disagreement at all. I think that is something to keep in mind.
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Just so you know, I’m not lumping you into any category. I try never to categorize people, but sometimes it’s hard to read the tone of a post. Have a wonderful Sunday, Clay.
 
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