Why the catholic church is most the target

[Peter_J]

And, as usual, it completely ignores the question. Was the guy who raped the girl excommunicated or disciplined in any way? The article also reveals an inconsistency with Catholic teaching: the end justifies the means MANY times in Catholic teaching, just not in this particular instance.

“The end justifies the means” is not an acceptable principle in Catholic theology, but the Principle of Double Effect is.

If a women/girl 's life is in danger from her pregnancy, a doctor could perform a C-section to save her life. Sadly, her unborn offspring might not be able to survive outside of the womb (even with the great advances in medical technology that we have seen) – in which case, their deaths would be an unintended effect of the C-section.

Note that this would not be “the end justifies the means”; rather, it’s using an acceptable means (C-section) to achieve a good end (saving the mother’s life), with a possible effect (the death of another human being – or, in the case that you refer to, two human beings) which is anticipated but not intended.

 

[PJM]

I have a theory about why the catholic church is targeted more than any other group much of the time. Its because the worldly people take the RCC more seriously than other religious groups. This is not an attack or denigration of those groups. Its just that the RCC has been around the longest, and is the most well known and among the most outspoken, and its also the one which has changed the least overall, and is probably the least likely to compromise or negotiate beliefs to fit the world.

**FACT is stranger than fiction!

The Rcc is the Oldest Chrsitian Church (2000 continueous years and climbing.)

The Rcc is the Largest Christian church (By far)

The Rcc is the ONLY church actually founded by God Himself!

The Rcc is the SEAT / The FOUNT of all Moral Truths, and all Faith related truths!

So, if not us who?**

A better question might be, why they struggle so with accepting THE TRUTH even when its in the BIBLE?

 

[KC91]

Also another reason why the Catholic Church is targeted is that Catholicism throughout history has been the best religion that works well with good and robust leadership, and thus the bad leaders of today view it with fear.

 

[ckempston]

“The end justifies the means” is not an acceptable principle in Catholic theology, but the Principle of Double Effect is.

You’ve continued to ignore the question: was the guy who raped the 9 year old disciplined in any way by the church? Probably not. Just like it didn’t discipline paedophile pastors for who knows how many generations.

Just War and Self Defense are examples of the ends justifying the means where Catholic doctrine contradicts the Bible and the Early Church Fathers. The early Christians were complete pacifists and would not even defend themselves if they or their families were attacked; leaders went so far as to say it was unlawful for a Christian to even serve in the military.

“Do not avenge yourself on those who injure you… let us imitate the Lord, who when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he was crucified, he answered not; when he suffered, he threatened not; but prayed for his enemies.” Ignatius

“The soldier of the government must be taught not to kill men. If ordered to, he shall not carry out the order, nor shall he take the military oath. If he does not accept this, he must be rejected for baptism. A military commander or civic magistrate must resign or be rejected. The believers who wish to become soldiers shall be cast out, because they have despised God.” Hippolytus

“Inquiry is made whether a believer is able to turn himself into military service… But how will a Christian wage war, indeed how will he serve even in peace without a sword, which the Lord has taken away? …The Lord in disarming Peter, unbelted every soldier.” Tertullian

If a women/girl 's life is in danger from her pregnancy, a doctor could perform a C-section to save her life. Sadly, her unborn offspring might not be able to survive outside of the womb (even with the great advances in medical technology that we have seen) – in which case, their deaths would be an unintended effect of the C-section.

Note that this would not be “the end justifies the means”; rather, it’s using an acceptable means (C-section) to achieve a good end (saving the mother’s life), with a possible effect (the death of another human being – or, in the case that you refer to, two human beings) which is anticipated but not intended.

 

[ckempston]

Also another reason why the Catholic Church is targeted is that Catholicism throughout history has been the best religion that works well with good and robust leadership, and thus the bad leaders of today view it with fear.

You forgot that the other reason that it works well is that it was enforced by secular authorities and Bishops often held governorships and positions of secular authority over their dioceses.

 

[KC91]

Well, this ensured social stability though, but social stability is something that today’s secular authorities do not want us to have.

 

[ckempston]

Well, this ensured social stability though, but social stability is something that today’s secular authorities do not want us to have.

Was Jesus concerned with social stability?

 

[KC91]

Well he didn’t say anything for or against it, so it is a matter for us to decide.

 

[Peter_J]

Raymond Arroyo mentioned something pretty troubling last night on EWTN. It was about a recent Gallop poll (in the U.S., I’m assuming). He didn’t say the specific percentages, but he said that the percentage of non-Catholics who agree with the Church on moral/social issues like abortion, pre-marital sex and homosexuality, is higher than the percentage of Catholics who do so.

He went on to say that the same holds true if you limit consideration to regular-church-goers.

P.S. This may have been the poll to which he was referring.

 

[Peter_J]

… something pretty troubling …

It occurs to me that my statement might sound pretty prideful, so let me add: Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad that such a high percentage of non-Catholic Americans take conservative positions on moral issue. (Perhaps I haven’t given you Protestants enough credit.) But I find it a little disturbing that there isn’t an even higher percentage of Catholic Americans who do so.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

We Catholics have got to get ready for the persecution to get a lot sharper.

 

[traillius]

Raymond Arroyo mentioned something pretty troubling last night on EWTN. It was about a recent Gallop poll (in the U.S., I’m assuming). He didn’t say the specific percentages, but he said that the percentage of non-Catholics who agree with the Church on moral/social issues like abortion, pre-marital sex and homosexuality, is higher than the percentage of Catholics who do so.

He went on to say that the same holds true if you limit consideration to regular-church-goers.

P.S. This may have been the poll to which he was referring.

I saw the polling data. its sad that non catholics are more catholic than catholics, even among churchgoers.

 

[Peter_J]

You’ve continued to ignore the question: was the guy who raped the 9 year old disciplined in any way by the church? Probably not. Just like it didn’t discipline paedophile pastors for who knows how many generations.

Sorry, didn’t mean to ignore you. My answer is, I don’t know.

 

[humble_in_doubt]

We Catholics have got to get ready for the persecution to get a lot sharper.

yes the boogy man is coming to get you. Holy paranoia batman

 

[cazayoux]

Who is to blame for the current and up-coming attacks?

Satan! … just as hawkeye says.
He will not succeed though.

Just the fact that the church survived this long is a testament to God’s good promise that the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

No human institution has come close to surviving as long as the Catholic Church.
THIS tells you that the Catholic Church is not a human institution, but from God.

michel

 

[cazayoux]

You’ve continued to ignore the question: was the guy who raped the 9 year old disciplined in any way by the church? Probably not. Just like it didn’t discipline paedophile pastors for who knows how many generations.

A very sad thing indeed.
Personally, I’d like these priests strung up.
I have NO tolerance for those that target children.

My faith in the Catholic Church has nothing to do with the holiness of the individuals within it.
My faith in the Catholic Church has everything to do with Jesus.

It’s the teachings that are truth, not the poor examples that do not live up to that truth.

michel

 

[cazayoux]

Hi 4Squarebaby. I think you’re making things sound a bit more complicated than they really are.

Conservative Catholics and conservative Protestants tend to vote against abortion, sex-same marriage, etc.

Liberal Catholics and liberal Protestants tend to vote for abortion, sex-same marriage, etc.

Evangelicals are conservative Protestants, hence they tend to vote against abortion, sex-same marriage, etc.

Correct!
It’s these conservative evangelicals standing next to Catholics in front of the abortion mills.
We appreciate all those that recognize truth.

michel

 

[cazayoux]

You forgot that the other reason that it works well is that it was enforced by secular authorities and Bishops often held governorships and positions of secular authority over their dioceses.

Yes … power corrupts.
The bad examples of such church leaders in secular leadership roles are exactly why it is no longer allowed.
Lesson learned … even if hard learned.

michel

 

[ckempston]

A very sad thing indeed.
Personally, I’d like these priests strung up.
I have NO tolerance for those that target children.

My faith in the Catholic Church has nothing to do with the holiness of the individuals within it.
My faith in the Catholic Church has everything to do with Jesus.

It’s the teachings that are truth, not the poor examples that do not live up to that truth.

michel

Could Protestants not make the same argument? The Scriptures are true, regardless of our ability to follow them perfectly or completely understand all things. It is the Scriptures that are truth, not the poor examples that do not live up to that truth.

 

[ckempston]

Yes … power corrupts.
The bad examples of such church leaders in secular leadership roles are exactly why it is no longer allowed.
Lesson learned … even if hard learned.

michel

I’m not so sure the Catholic church “allowing” or “disallowing” had anything to do with it. The Catholic church was no longer able to exercise that authority over secular leaders; it did not suddenly just decide to give it up. I would compare this to saying Saddam Hussein decided to give up Iraq.