Why the Cross? Let's talk

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I feel that this is a good place to start. I could not imagine my faith life without gazing up at the cross daily. I wear this Christian symbol, it helps remind me of Christ and what He has given. Of course He is burnt into my heart, into my mind.

“Christian prayer is modeled after the prayer of Jesus. Like his, it should come from the heart. When he prayed Jesus used words and signs and sometimes cries, as expressions of his heart. And so do we when we pray; our hearts too look for an outward voice.

The words and signs that Jesus used when he prayed often came from his own Jewish tradition, from what he learned in his family and from others. As for ourselves, we turn to our Christian tradition for guidance in prayer. We believe it is a tradition inspired by the Holy Spirit, and it is also an outgrowth of the Jewish tradition of prayer that nourished Jesus himself.

The Christian tradition of prayer has a wisdom all its own, with many different forms and expressions. Some basic prayers of our Christian tradition, however, have a special place. The Sign of the Cross is one example.

In the Catholic church and other Christian churches the Sign of the Cross is an important part of personal and public prayer. It originated in the earliest days of Christianity and so it is centuries old. It is the first sign made on us at Baptism and the last sign made as we pass to our future life. It’s a vital part of liturgical prayer and the sacraments. With the Sign of the Cross we begin and end our prayers.

We call it a blessing. We say we “bless ourselves.” Tracing with our hand the figure of the cross on our forehead, our breast, our shoulders, we bless ourselves:

The Sign of the Cross expresses blessing. It symbolizes God blessing us, God embracing us with blessings. And in this same sign we express our belief in God from whom all our blessings flow. In the Sign of the Cross we embrace our good God with mind and heart and all of our strength.

God blesses. The Jewish scriptures describe God as, above all, the One who blesses. God blessed Noah and saved the world from the flood. God blessed Abraham and Sara with blessings more than the stars in the sky. God blessed the Jewish people, redeeming them from the slavery of Egypt. Life itself and all creation are God’s gifts.

And so the Jewish tradition of prayer always approaches God as One who blesses. “I will bless the Lord at all times,” the psalmist prays. As we are blessed by God, so we bless the Lord in return.

The Christian tradition of prayer follows this same pattern, but in addition it praises the One who blesses for another incomparable blessing: the blessing of Jesus Christ. “Blessed be God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has bestowed on us in Christ every spiritual blessing.” ( Eph 1,3 ) He is “the Word who made the universe, the Savior sent to redeem us.” In Jesus Christ God appears as our Friend and Brother. With the Father he sends the Holy Spirit upon us “to complete his work on earth and bring us the fullness of grace.” In Jesus, God has revealed to us the source of all blessings.

When we bless ourselves with the Sign of the Cross we remember the One who blesses us: the triune God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

With the Sign of the Cross we recall in particular the blessing of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We trace a cross on ourselves, the cross of Jesus. His death on the Cross was an outpouring of love for us. The Sign of the Cross is a reminder of his love, a love found not only in the past, but here and now, as we make this sign upon ourselves; for the love of Jesus Christ abides forever.

The Sign of the Cross is a wonderful daily expression of our relationship with God. God is the One who blesses. This prayer reminds us that each day, in good times and bad, in danger and sorrow, God’s care and blessings are never far from us.

Tracing this holy sign on our forehead, our hearts and our shoulders, we remember we are blessed in mind and heart and all our being. We can approach God with confidence through Jesus Christ whose ever present love this holy sign recalls. “Come to me,” God says through this prayer, “do not be afraid. Before you take one step, I reach to embrace you with blessings in my hands.”

Victor Hoagland, C.P
 
Try making the sign of the Cross, think about the Passion as you move your hand from your forehead down to your heart. Think about Gods mercy as you then move your hand to the left of your heart, then think about God dying for you in order to forgive you your sins as you move your hand to the right of your heart. Try it again and reflect on who God is in your life, then say these words as you make the sign again. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Now what happens if you get a warm feeling in doing this act of love? Remember Satan was defeated on the Cross for you an I. It is despised, this place in the lowest of places.
 
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catholic-rcia:
I feel that this is a good place to start. I could not imagine my faith life without gazing up at the cross daily. I wear this Christian symbol, it helps remind me of Christ and what He has given. Of course He is burnt into my heart, into my mind…
The LDS view regarding the Christian cross was explained in the following message by Gordon B. Hinckley, published Liahona of April 2005.

amgid
 
Thanks Amgid,
I read it all

I became Catholic 6 years ago. The most glorious time of year is the Easter season as it last for around 6 weeks. I remember when Easter was a Sunday meal, a time to spend with family. As a Catholic it has become a walk to the cross, through the cross with Jesus to get to the resurrection. The Easter season is very special to Christians, because we really contemplate the Cross, the Passion of Christ.

Can you comment on the Holy Scriptures below? You will find them.
Hinckley Wrote:

“This was the cross, the instrument of His torture, the terrible device designed to destroy the Man of Peace, the evil recompense for His miraculous work of healing the sick, of causing the blind to see, of raising the dead. This was the cross on which He hung and died on Golgotha’s lonely summit.”

Christians have been taught that the cross was the instrument of our salvation, it being where are sins were forgiven, by His death we were restored to life, the devil was defeated by the way of the Cross. Without the Crucifixion there would be no resurrection. Getting in touch with the suffering Christ is a very good thing, especially when you realize that you and I had a hand in His crucifixion with our own sin, a single lie has you and I playing the role of crucifier. Have you ever told a lie?

When you get in touch with the suffering Christ you really come to understand forgiveness and reconciliation at its highest cost. Catholics embrace the Cross, it is what transforms us. Do you not know about your baptism? We have been baptized into the death of Christ so that we can be raised through Christ.

In the Scriptures:

The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

“He said to them all, 'If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.”
Luke 9:23 "…

Hinckley Wrote:

“The cross had been the bitter fruit of Judas’s betrayal, the summary of Peter’s denial.”

In the Scriptures:

“by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross." Colossians 1:20

“As His followers, we cannot do a mean or shoddy or ungracious thing without tarnishing His image.” By President Gordon B. Hinckley

In the Scriptures

“…having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.” Colossians 2:14

Continued…
 
How precious the gift of the cross, how splendid to contemplate! In the cross there is no mingling of good and evil, as in the tree of paradise: it is wholly beautiful to behold and good to taste. The fruit of this tree is not death but life, not darkness but light. This tree does not cast us out of paradise, but opens the way for our return.

This was the tree on which Christ, like a king on a chariot, destroyed the devil, the lord of death, and freed the human race from his tyranny. This was the tree upon which the Lord like a brave warrior wounded in hands, feet and side, healed the wounds of sin that the evil serpent had inflicted on our nature. A tree once caused our death, but now a tree brings life. Once deceived by a tree, we have now repelled the cunning serpent by a tree. What an astonishing transformation! That death should become life, that decay should become immortality, that shame should become glory! Well might the holy Apostle exclaim:

*Far be it from me to glory except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world! *

The supreme wisdom that flowered on the cross has shown the folly of worldly wisdom’s pride. The knowledge of all good, which is the fruit of the cross, has cut away the shoots of wickedness.

The wonders accomplished through this tree were foreshadowed clearly even by the mere types and figures that existed in the past. Meditate on these, if you are eager to learn. Was it not the wood of a tree that enabled Noah, at God’s command, to escape the destruction of the flood together with his sons, his wife, his sons’ wives and every kind of animal? And surely the rod of Moses prefigured the cross when it changed water into blood, swallowed up the false serpents of Pharaoh’s magicians, divided the sea at one stroke and then restored the waters to their normal course, drowning the enemy and saving God’s own people? Aaron’s rod, which blossomed in one day in proof of his true priesthood, was another figure of the cross, and did not Abraham foreshadow the cross when he bound his son Isaac and placed him on the pile of wood?

By the cross death was slain and Adam was restored to life. The cross is the glory of all the apostles, the crown of the martyrs, the sanctification of the saints. By the cross we put on Christ and cast aside our former self. By the cross we, the sheep of Christ, have been gathered into one flock, destined for the sheepfold of heaven.

by Theodore the Studite

O happy fault, O necessary sin of Adam, Which gained for us so great a Redeemer! The power
of this holy night dispels all evil, washes guilt away, restores lost innocence, brings mourners joy.
Night truly blessed when heaven is wedded to earth And man is reconciled with God
. –liturgy of Holy Saturday

Somehow, original sin, that inner anguish and brokeness that is even beyond our own doing, can become the place where we come in touch with our original blessing. Somehow our broken father, our limited mother, our neurotic brother, our confused sister and our own inner struggle push us and create in us a hunger to go beyond the pain. “My soul is restless,” as St. Augustine says, “until it rests in you, O Lord.”

When we begin to know intimacy with God and to accept others and ourselves as we are, we then begin to speak about “happy brokenness.” Our inner struggle is no longer such a burden, but a way to the truth, to the light, to the life. How could we ever become children of God, embraced by the love of the Father, the Son and the Spirit, and be let into the intimacy of the triune life if God hadn’t shown compassion with us, as we are? Through Jesus’ incarnation we come to know about the inner life of God. It is in our fragile and mortal flesh that God’s original blessing is revealed to us.
–Fr. Henri J.M. Nouwen
 
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catholic-rcia:
Christians have been taught that the cross was the instrument of our salvation, it being where are sins were forgiven, by His death we were restored to life, the devil was defeated by the way of the Cross. Without the Crucifixion there would be no resurrection. Getting in touch with the suffering Christ is a very good thing, especially when you realize that you and I had a hand in His crucifixion with our own sin, a single lie has you and I playing the role of crucifier. Have you ever told a lie?

When you get in touch with the suffering Christ you really come to understand forgiveness and reconciliation at its highest cost. Catholics embrace the Cross, it is what transforms us. Do you not know about your baptism? We have been baptized into the death of Christ so that we can be raised through Christ.
I don’t have any problems with that, neither does President Hinckley. I think that he has already answered that question. We believe that the fact that the Lord now lives is more a matter of focus for us than the fact that He once died—even though He died that we may live.
In the Scriptures:
The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18
We are arguing about terminology here. What Paul here calls “he message of the cross,” in LDS terminology would be called “the message of the Atonement”. The Atonement of Christ, and its necessity for our salvation, is very central in LDS theology and thinking.
“He said to them all, 'If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.” Luke 9:23 "…
This teaches a different doctrine altogether from the Atonement, or the cross of Christ. It means that we should bear the afflictions of the world patiently and not waver under the pressure. LDS certainly believe and teach that, and it is also taught in the Book of Mormon.
Hinckley Wrote:
“The cross had been the bitter fruit of Judas’s betrayal, the summary of Peter’s denial.”
In the Scriptures:
“by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.” Colossians 1:20
The two statements are not contradictory. You seem to portray them as though there was a contradiction. I don’t agree.
“As His followers, we cannot do a mean or shoddy or ungracious thing without tarnishing His image.” By President Gordon B. Hinckley
In the Scriptures
“…having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.” Colossians 2:14
So, are you suggesting that since Christ has atoned for our sins, we should do “mean, shoddy, and unrighteous” things? I don’t understand.

amgid
 
I like these Scripture quotes as well.

1 Corinthians 1:17-18 “For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning. The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”

1 Corinthians 1:23 “but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles”

1 Cornithians 2:2 “For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified.”

Galatians 6:14 “But may I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ”
 
Great posts Catholic-RCIA! I can never here too much of our Lord’s love for us, True Love!

Blessed be the Tree of Life that bore the Fruit of our redemption!
 
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amgid:
We are arguing about terminology here. What Paul here calls “he message of the cross,” in LDS terminology would be called “the message of the Atonement”. The Atonement of Christ, and its necessity for our salvation, is very central in LDS theology and thinking.
But LDS don’t teach that the atonement was accomplished on the cross, but rather in the Garden of Gethsemene. That is yet another reason that LDS don’t display or reverence the cross.
 
You beat me to the punch with Theodore the Studies, RCIA. 👍

So here’s St. Methodius 🙂 :
For with this end the Lord Jesus both wore our flesh, and became man, and by the divine dispensation was nailed to the cross; in order that by the flesh in which the demons had proudly and falsely feigned themselves gods, having carried our souls captive unto death by deceitful wiles, even by this they might be overturned, and discovered to be no gods. For he prevented their arrogance from raising itself higher, by becoming man; in order that by the body in which the race possessed of reason had become estranged from the worship of the true God, and had suffered injury, even by the same receiving into itself in an ineffable manner the Word of Wisdom, the enemy might be discovered to be the destroyers and not the benefactors of our souls. For it had not been wonderful if Christ, by the terror of His divinity, and the greatness of His invincible power, had reduced to weakness the adverse nature of the demons. But since this was to cause them greater grief and torment, for they would have preferred to be overcome by one stronger than themselves, therefore it was that by a man He procured the safety of the race; in order that men, after that very Life and Truth had entered into them in bodily form, might be able to return to the form and light of the Word, overcoming the power of the enticements of sin; and that the demons, being conquered by one weaker than they, and thus brought into contempt, might desist from their over-bold confidence, their hellish wrath being repressed. It was for this mainly that the cross was brought in, being erected as a trophy against iniquity, and a deterrent from it, that henceforth man might be no longer subject to wrath, after that he had made up for the defeat which, by his disobedience, be had received, and had lawfully conquered the infernal powers, and by the gift of God had been set free from every debt. Since, therefore, the first-born Word of God thus fortified the manhood in which He tabernacled with the armour of righteousness, He overcame, as has been said, the powers that enslaved us by the figure of the cross, and showed forth man, who had been oppressed by corruption, as by a tyrant power, to be free, with unfettered hands. For the cross, if you wish to define it, is the confirmation of the victory, the way by which God to man descended, the trophy against material spirits, the repulsion of death, the foundation of the ascent to the true day; and the ladder for those who are hastening to enjoy the light that is there, the engine by which those who are fitted for the edifice of the Church are raised up from below, like a stone four square, to be compacted on to the divine Word. Hence it is that our kings, perceiving that the figure of the cross is used for the dissipating of every evil, have made vexillas, as they are called in the Latin language. Hence the sea, yielding to this figure, makes itself navigable to men. For every creature, so to speak, has, for the sake of liberty, been marked with this sign; for the birds which fly aloft, form the figure of the cross by the expansion of their wings; and man himself, also, with his hands outstretched, represents the same. . .
. . . For the Word suffered, being in the flesh affixed to the cross, that He might bring man, who had been deceived by error, to His supreme and godlike majesty, restoring him to that divine life from which he had become alienated. By this figure, in truth, the passions are blunted; the passion of the passions having taken place by the Passion, and the death of death by the death of Christ, He not having been subdued by death, nor overcome by the pains of the Passion. For neither did the Passion cast Him down from His equanimity, nor did death hurt Him, but He was in the passible remaining impassible, and in the mortal remaining immortal, comprehending all that the air, and this middle state, and the heaven above contained, and attempering the mortal to the immortal divinity. Death was vanquished entirely; the flesh being crucified to draw forth its immortality," St. Methodius, Bishop of Philippi, martyred ca. A.D. 311.
In considering the Cross, one does, I think, see the (dreadful) fittingness of this means by which Our Savior was put to death: arms outstretched to “gather in” the sins of humanity, and the vertical beam reaching from earth to Heaven. So even in this symbol of death we contemplate a Death beyond our comprehension.
 
What an awesome thread!! The Passion of our Lord is so beautiful to me. Every stripe on His back, every drop of blood He spilt, every place His flesh was pierced was due to my sin. The punishment due to me for my sins were put on the unblemished Lamb and nailed to the cross.

To quote St Augustine:
*
“Upon the forehead we bear His sign; and we do not blush because of it, if we also bear it in the heart. His sign is His humility. By a star the Magi knew Him; and this sign was given by the Lord, and it was heavenly and beautiful He did not desire that a star should be His sign on the forehead of the faithful, but His cross. By it humbled, by it also glorified; by it He raised the humble, even by that to which He, when humbled, descended.”*
 
tkdnick

like these Scripture quotes as well.

1 Corinthians 1:17-18 “For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning. The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”

1 Corinthians 1:23 “but we proclaim Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles”

1 Cornithians 2:2 “For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified.”

Galatians 6:14 “But may I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ”

Thank you
 
Paul

“But LDS don’t teach that the atonement was accomplished on the cross, but rather in the Garden of Gethsemene. That is yet another reason that LDS don’t display or reverence the cross.”

Why would this be wrong to preach this? Anyone?
 
“What an awesome thread!! The Passion of our Lord is so beautiful to me. Every stripe on His back, every drop of blood He spilt, every place His flesh was pierced was due to my sin. The punishment due to me for my sins were put on the unblemished Lamb and nailed to the cross.”

Getting down to the basics here

God bless
 
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PaulDupre:
But LDS don’t teach that the atonement was accomplished on the cross, but rather in the Garden of Gethsemene. That is yet another reason that LDS don’t display or reverence the cross.
Paul,

Say what? This has been an interesting discussion that I’ve actually been able to follow - and now you bring up something about atonement being accomplished in Gethsemene (lovely place, btw, with a great view of the City)?

You’re just going to have to explain yourself!
 
I’ll jump in here ben,

The LDS rarely mention crucifixion in their teachings but rather prefer to refer to Christs sacrifice as “the atonement”.

They believe that in the garden of Gethsemane Jesus took upon himself the sins of the world. they also believe that he shed his blood there for us. (claiming this from the scripture about him “sweating blood” while praying)

*# Luke 22: 44

44 And being in an aagony he prayed more earnestly: band• his sweat was as it were great drops of cblood• falling down to the ground.
*

They believe he carried our sins from that moment until his death thus paying the price. so the crucifixion was just the climax.
 
The death of the Lord our God should not be a cause of shame for us; rather, it should be our greatest hope, our greatest glory. In taking upon himself the death that he found in us, he has most faithfully promised to give us life in him, such as we cannot have of ourselves.

He loved us so much that, sinless himself, he suffered for us sinners the punishment we deserved for our sins. How then can he fail to give us the reward we deserve for our righteousness, for he is the source of righteousness? How can he, whose promises are true, fail to reward the saints when he bore the punishment of sinners, though without sin himself?

Brethren, let us then fearlessly acknowledge, and even openly proclaim, that Christ was crucified for us; let us confess it, not in fear but in joy, not in shame but in glory.

The apostle Paul saw Christ, and extolled his claim to glory. He had many great and inspired things to say about Christ, but he did not say that he boasted in Christ’s wonderful works: in creating the world, since he was God with the Father, or in ruling the world, though he was also a man like us. Rather, he said: Let me not boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.

From a sermon by Augustine, bishop of Hippo, 5th century
 
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PaulDupre:
But LDS don’t teach that the atonement was accomplished on the cross, but rather in the Garden of Gethsemene. That is yet another reason that LDS don’t display or reverence the cross.
The Atonement of Christ was performed on the cross as well as in Gethsemane. LDS doctrine reaches that the atonement was performed on the cross:

1 Nephi 11:

32 And it came to pass that the angel spake unto me again, saying: Look! And I looked and beheld the Lamb of God, that he was taken by the people; yea, the Son of the everlasting God was judged of the world; and I saw and bear record.

33 And I, Nephi, saw that he was lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world.

Jacob 1:

8 Wherefore, we would to God that we could persuade all men not to rebel against God, to provoke him to anger, but that all men would believe in Christ, and view his death, and suffer his cross and bear the shame of the world; …

3 Nephi 11:

13 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto them saying:

14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.

3 Nephi 27:

13 Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.

14 And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross;
LDS doctrine teaches that the Atonement was also in part performed in Gethsemane:

Mosiah 3:

7 And lo, he shall suffer temptations, and pain of body, hunger, thirst, and fatigue, even more than man can suffer, except it be unto death; for behold, blood cometh from every pore, so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people.

8 And he shall be called Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Father of heaven and earth, the Creator of all things from the beginning; and his mother shall be called Mary.

D&C 19:

18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink–

19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.
This is also fully confirmed by the Bible:

Luke 22:

43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

Hebrews 12:

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, STRIVING AGAINST SIN.
Note especially the last quote form Hebrews. It describes most clearly the nature of the Lord’s experience in Gethsemane. It says that the Atonement took place on the cross as well as in Gethsemane. It was in Gethsemane that the Lord endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, and it was something that took place in His mind as well as in His body, and it was there that He resisted unto blood, STRIVING AGAINST SIN. You can’t have it any clearer than that. In Gethsemane Jesus “resisted unto blood…” striving against {our} sins. Or as Mosiah has put it, “… blood cometh from every pore so great shall be his anguish for the wickedness and the abominations of his people”. Both the Bible and the Book of Mormon confirm that the Atonement was performed both on the cross as well as in Gethsemane.

amgid
 
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amgid:
He resisted unto blood, STRIVING AGAINST SIN. You can’t have it any clearer than that. In Gethsemane Jesus “resisted unto blood…” striving against {our} sins.
What a terrible misinterpretation of Hebews 12. Lets look deeper into the passage:

Hebews 12:4-6 KJV
4: Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
5: And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

The RSV puts it like this:
4: In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood.
5: And have you forgotten the exhortation which addresses you as sons? – “My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor lose courage when you are punished by him.
6: For the Lord disciplines him whom he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”

And the Douay-Rheims reads:
4For you have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin:
5And you have forgotten the consolation, which speaketh to you, as unto children, saying: My son, neglect not the discipline of the Lord; neither be thou wearied whilst thou art rebuked by him.
6For whom the Lord loveth, he chastiseth; and he scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

The subject is us, not Christ.
 
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