Why the excessive interest in others' use of NFP?

[mrs_ahs]

I’ve seen a lot of posts here that make a lot of assumptions/observations about the family sizes and choices regarding the use of NFP among Catholic couples. (i.e. “A couple would be selfish if they used NFP to avoid pregnancy only for reasons x or y.”)

I’m really confused as to why people have such an interest in the NFP choices of others? Why do you care? Since the Church, like it or not, does leave these decisions to each couple and not to their friends or fellow parishioners, I just don’t get the excessive interest that many people here seem to have in this. Now, don’t get me wrong, it’s not just here. As a homeschooler who attends a very traditional parish that offers the TLM, I see this attitude quite often. It’s nothing new to me, but still, I’ve never understood it. It does seem like this attitude almost always comes from a) unmarried Catholics who feel that they have been appointed director of bedroom activities for others’ marriages, b) moms who have a small family, or c) men.

I also hear frequent mention of the hypothetical couple who “uses NFP just so they can go on fancy vacations, buy a fancy car, or have a jacuzzi.” Seriously? LOL. As someone who has practiced NFP for my entire marriage, the idea that abstinence in the fertile period can be continued for decades for frivolous reasons by anyone with half a sex drive is completely ridiculous. Of the many, MANY NFP couples I know, I have never met one of vacation/car/jacuzzi sorts. From what I can tell, they exist only in the imaginations of those who find NFP couples to be selfish. The people who avoid children for those reasons are contraceptors.

So, if you are one of these people who feels the need to make such judgemental statements, can you help me understand why you feel that you are allowed an opinion about this? It seems this energy might be better spent instructing the ignorant - i.e. contraceptors who are outside Church teaching.

 

[Trishie]

They possibly fin this difficult to understand…from the Catechism of the Catholic Church
scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a6.htm
2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:

When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts, criteria that respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart.156

2369 "By safeguarding both these essential aspects, the unitive and the procreative, the conjugal act preserves in its fullness the sense of true mutual love and its orientation toward man’s exalted vocation to parenthood."157

2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom."

However it isn’t the place of members here to judge other persons.
Anyone who has questions about NFP would be wise to speak to their priests, not to a public forum where not everyone is well informed or has read the encyclicals or any other authentic Catholic teaching.

Encyclical “Humane Vitae”

papalencyclicals.net/Paul06/p6humana.htm

Some people even interpret ‘being open to life’ as meaning that people must have as many children as possible, which would create impossible situations for many, and destructive pressures on many already impoverished couples and which attitude lays huge guilt upon others, so I believe people should refer their issues to their priests, and to avoid judging others.

 

[ahs]

Hello Mrs.! :flowers:

I can’t speak for most…but one of the reasons I have seen in the past is that some feel that NFP can be abused, or used for unjust reasons…and so they feel they are giving fraternal correction by pointing this out. Since the Church has said NBR can be used for “just reasons”, and has given some shadow of examples (as in the Allocution to Midwives) they think, perhaps, that a couple can sin by using NFP for frivolous reasons (a sin of selfishness). I think perhaps they don’t realize what all is involved with NFP and that those people are few and far between, if they exist at all, who would use NFP without a just cause.

 

[ahs]

However it isn’t the place of members here to judge other persons.
Anyone who has questions about NFP would be wise to speak to their priests, not to a public forum where not everyone is well informed or has read the encyclicals or any other authentic Catholic teaching.
.

 

[mdleagedguy]

On the flip side are those who, upon the birth of one’s eighth child, remind you that there is NFP, ask if you have been to an NFP class, or question whether you are using it correctly.

 

[Trishie]

My mother used NFP faithfully, or what was available (Rhythm) at the time. She died at age 43 of a miscarriage of her 12th child leaving nine surviving children ranging up from 4 years old and leaving a distraught husband who suddenly became ill with pneumonia on the night of her funeral to the point that his eyes began glazing over. He took months to recover. The effects in our lives was radical and life-affecting, and I still miss her that young woman I never knew as an adult.

I think we do need to approach the question of NFP in careful personal dialogue with our priest who can understand the Church’s teaching more fully than we can, not to pronounce upon any other person.

 

[RedSoxWife]

I think that one reason there’s “excessive” interest is that people come on and say: “So okay, this is our situation, do we have a serious reason?” or make some other NFP comment and then things tend to get crazy. Do I give any thought to the NFP uses of people around me? Nope. But have I answered questions on here when people pose them? Absolutely. That’s a big part of what these forums are for. People are trying to figure things out and discussions begin. If we don’t feel like a big NFP debate, we don’t have to join in (I only stop by NFP threads if I’m in an NFP debate mood, because let’s face it, that’s the direction things pretty much always go in…).

 

[mrs_ahs]

I think many priests probably give good direction on this, but their opinions seem to range from “NFP is a mortal sin if you aren’t dying” to “go ahead and use condoms, it’s fine.” So sometimes you will just get the priest’s personal opinion and then a couple who was already confused is even more confused. Ultimately the reasons are really up to the couple to discern.

 

[mrs_ahs]

Hello Mrs.! :flowers:

I can’t speak for most…but one of the reasons I have seen in the past is that some feel that NFP can be abused, or used for unjust reasons…and so they feel they are giving fraternal correction by pointing this out. Since the Church has said NBR can be used for “just reasons”, and has given some shadow of examples (as in the Allocution to Midwives) they think, perhaps, that a couple can sin by using NFP for frivolous reasons (a sin of selfishness). I think perhaps they don’t realize what all is involved with NFP and that those people are few and far between, if they exist at all, who would use NFP without a just cause.

Hi honey.

 

[mrs_ahs]

On the flip side are those who, upon the birth of one’s eighth child, remind you that there is NFP, ask if you have been to an NFP class, or question whether you are using it correctly.

I think that’s just as terrible! It’s nobody else’s business, grrr. I love seeing big families, and wanted 10 when we got married. We have four, and I’m still holding out hope that my body can handle a few more. Right now it can’t though.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I’ve seen a lot of posts here that make a lot of assumptions/observations about the family sizes and choices regarding the use of NFP among Catholic couples. (i.e. “A couple would be selfish if they used NFP to avoid pregnancy only for reasons x or y.”)

I’m really confused as to why people have such an interest in the NFP choices of others? Why do you care? Since the Church, like it or not, does leave these decisions to each couple and not to their friends or fellow parishioners, I just don’t get the excessive interest that many people here seem to have in this. Now, don’t get me wrong, it’s not just here. As a homeschooler who attends a very traditional parish that offers the TLM, I see this attitude quite often. It’s nothing new to me, but still, I’ve never understood it. It does seem like this attitude almost always comes from a) unmarried Catholics who feel that they have been appointed director of bedroom activities for others’ marriages, b) moms who have a small family, or c) men.

I also hear frequent mention of the hypothetical couple who “uses NFP just so they can go on fancy vacations, buy a fancy car, or have a jacuzzi.” Seriously? LOL. As someone who has practiced NFP for my entire marriage, the idea that abstinence in the fertile period can be continued for decades for frivolous reasons by anyone with half a sex drive is completely ridiculous. Of the many, MANY NFP couples I know, I have never met one of vacation/car/jacuzzi sorts. From what I can tell, they exist only in the imaginations of those who find NFP couples to be selfish. The people who avoid children for those reasons are contraceptors.

So, if you are one of these people who feels the need to make such judgemental statements, can you help me understand why you feel that you are allowed an opinion about this? It seems this energy might be better spent instructing the ignorant - i.e. contraceptors who are outside Church teaching.

Don’t let it bug you, all sorts of " know it alls " post on these forums and on other sites. I suppose they mean well. You are right, you are accountable only to God.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

My mother used NFP faithfully, or what was available (Rhythm) at the time. She died at age 43 of a miscarriage of her 12th child leaving nine surviving children ranging up from 4 years old and leaving a distraught husband who suddenly became ill with pneumonia on the night of her funeral to the point that his eyes began glazing over. He took months to recover. The effects in our lives was radical and life-affecting, and I still miss her that young woman I never knew as an adult.

I think we do need to approach the question of NFP in careful personal dialogue with our priest who can understand the Church’s teaching more fully than we can, not to pronounce upon any other person.

Now that is sad. I’m afraid I know a couple of women in my parish who are candidates for the same thing. Very sorry for your loss, it hurts like hell to loose a Mom.

 

[mrs_ahs]

I think that one reason there’s “excessive” interest is that people come on and say: “So okay, this is our situation, do we have a serious reason?” or make some other NFP comment and then things tend to get crazy. Do I give any thought to the NFP uses of people around me? Nope. But have I answered questions on here when people pose them? Absolutely. That’s a big part of what these forums are for. People are trying to figure things out and discussions begin. If we don’t feel like a big NFP debate, we don’t have to join in (I only stop by NFP threads if I’m in an NFP debate mood, because let’s face it, that’s the direction things pretty much always go in…).

Well yeah, that makes sense. I didn’t mean that people shouldn’t have their NFP questions answered here, except the “is this a good enough reason?” questions. I think those should always be answered with “it’s up to each couple.” I am reacting more to the judgemental statements, to people being told that it’s selfish to avoid for x, y or z reason.

 

[mrs_ahs]

My mother used NFP faithfully, or what was available (Rhythm) at the time. She died at age 43 of a miscarriage of her 12th child leaving nine surviving children ranging up from 4 years old and leaving a distraught husband who suddenly became ill with pneumonia on the night of her funeral to the point that his eyes began glazing over. He took months to recover. The effects in our lives was radical and life-affecting, and I still miss her that young woman I never knew as an adult.

I think we do need to approach the question of NFP in careful personal dialogue with our priest who can understand the Church’s teaching more fully than we can, not to pronounce upon any other person.

I’m sorry about your mom.

I don’t agree that a priest is able to understand the Church’s teaching on this more fully. It’s pretty clear-cut and is not that hard to understand. The encyclicals, Catechism paragraphs, and books on the topic are available for anyone who wishes to read them. Further, a couple knows what they can handle, because they are living it.

 

[SusanneT]

I’ve seen a lot of posts here that make a lot of assumptions/observations about the family sizes and choices regarding the use of NFP among Catholic couples. (i.e. “A couple would be selfish if they used NFP to avoid pregnancy only for reasons x or y.”)

I’m really confused as to why people have such an interest in the NFP choices of others? Why do you care? Since the Church, like it or not, does leave these decisions to each couple and not to their friends or fellow parishioners, I just don’t get the excessive interest that many people here seem to have in this. Now, don’t get me wrong, it’s not just here. As a homeschooler who attends a very traditional parish that offers the TLM, I see this attitude quite often. It’s nothing new to me, but still, I’ve never understood it. It does seem like this attitude almost always comes from a) unmarried Catholics who feel that they have been appointed director of bedroom activities for others’ marriages, b) moms who have a small family, or c) men.

I also hear frequent mention of the hypothetical couple who “uses NFP just so they can go on fancy vacations, buy a fancy car, or have a jacuzzi.” Seriously? LOL. As someone who has practiced NFP for my entire marriage, the idea that abstinence in the fertile period can be continued for decades for frivolous reasons by anyone with half a sex drive is completely ridiculous. Of the many, MANY NFP couples I know, I have never met one of vacation/car/jacuzzi sorts. From what I can tell, they exist only in the imaginations of those who find NFP couples to be selfish. The people who avoid children for those reasons are contraceptors.

So, if you are one of these people who feels the need to make such judgemental statements, can you help me understand why you feel that you are allowed an opinion about this? It seems this energy might be better spent instructing the ignorant - i.e. contraceptors who are outside Church teaching.

I do completely agree that there is too much moralising about other peoples motives for using NFP, which is wrong, given that it is both a personal thing and a real challenge for most couples.

However I think one of the reasons many people join forums like this is that they really do not have anyone to discuss these matters with and they want to share & learn from other peoples experiences, which must be a good thing.

 

[severus68]

My mother used NFP faithfully, or what was available (Rhythm) at the time. She died at age 43 of a miscarriage of her 12th child leaving nine surviving children ranging up from 4 years old and leaving a distraught husband who suddenly became ill with pneumonia on the night of her funeral to the point that his eyes began glazing over. He took months to recover. The effects in our lives was radical and life-affecting, and I still miss her that young woman I never knew as an adult.

I think we do need to approach the question of NFP in careful personal dialogue with our priest who can understand the Church’s teaching more fully than we can, not to pronounce upon any other person.

So sorry about your Mum.

 

[mrs_ahs]

I do completely agree that there is too much moralising about other peoples motives for using NFP, which is wrong, given that it is both a personal thing and a real challenge for most couples.

However I think one of the reasons many people join forums like this is that they really do not have anyone to discuss these matters with and they want to share & learn from other peoples experiences, which must be a good thing.

Yes, I agree that it’s good to have the forums for people who have questions. It’s always good to have that support! I just meant the people who seem judgemental about others’ decisions to avoid, etc.

 

[cmscms]

I don’t think it matters what the issue is, some topics will always be of the nature that things can easily get heated. People feel threatened by their choices and feel a need to justify.

And IMO NFP is a VERY difficult things to assess. To say NFP can be used to space children only if there is a grave reason for doing so, is extremely unclear.

Some people use the argument ‘we can not financially afford another child’ and others use the argument ‘If God sends another child he will also send the finances to care for that child’. It is VERY unclear and I think a big source of confusion

OP, if you feel people are judging you, I encourage you to set a boundary and say ‘Please don’t discuss this with me’. However, if people are simply judging in general ie not directing their comments at anyone in particular, my recommendation is to pray for tolerance of others

CM

 

[whm]

I think it is a tough subject because NFP can appear to be a major shift in Catholic teaching on sexual morality in marriage. On the surface, the use of NFP to avoid can appear to be separating procreation for the marital act.

The existence of highly effective NFP makes it more challenging to understand and explain sexual morality. It is easier to explain when every act must be both open to life and between two people who are bonded for life to raise and nurture any life resulting from that act. I think that what happens with some folks (including me at times, although hopefully not directed at individuals circumstances) is that the more “conservative” one interprets the various teachings on NFP, the tighter sexual morality teachings fit together and the greater continuity with the Church teachings from the past.

 

[mrs_ahs]

I don’t think it matters what the issue is, some topics will always be of the nature that things can easily get heated. People feel threatened by their choices and feel a need to justify.

And IMO NFP is a VERY difficult things to assess. To say NFP can be used to space children only if there is a grave reason for doing so, is extremely unclear.

Some people use the argument ‘we can not financially afford another child’ and others use the argument ‘If God sends another child he will also send the finances to care for that child’. It is VERY unclear and I think a big source of confusion

OP, if you feel people are judging you, I encourage you to set a boundary and say ‘Please don’t discuss this with me’. However, if people are simply judging in general ie not directing their comments at anyone in particular, my recommendation is to pray for tolerance of others

CM

Well, no, I haven’t actually had any negative comments directed at me specifically; it’s more of a general attitude that I’ve observed. Praying for others is good advice, thanks.

I think the Church teaching is vague for a reason. The reason is not so that people are confused, but so that they don’t feel constrained to a rigid list of reasons where they can look and see if they are good or not. Rather, the Church acknowledges the uniqueness of each family and each circumstance.

feel like I am not explaining myself or my question very well here . . .