Why the fad for saying "non-Catholics"

[Ignatius]

Contarini:

when you mean Protestants–and not even all Protestants at that?

We don’t necessarily mean Protestants. Non-Catholics include all other Christian denominations and some others such as JW and Mormons.

 

[Mickey]

Contarini:

But don’t you think courtesy to the Orthodox (not to speak of the small matter of truth) is a lot more important than catering to the historical fantasies of people who want to deny their roots.

Orthodox consider themselves as Catholic, but not in communion with Rome.

 

[PaulDupre]

I also consider the Orthodox to be Catholic - “the other lung”. I also pray and believe that eventually the schism will be healed and they will come back into full communion. We will all be the better for it.

God bless,
Paul

 

[Mickey]

PaulDupre:

I also consider the Orthodox to be Catholic - “the other lung”. I also pray and believe that eventually the schism will be healed and they will come back into full communion. We will all be the better for it.

God bless,
Paul

The Orthodox would take issue with you for saying that they must come back into communion with Rome. Perhaps it should be worded:

We must come back into communion with eachother.

 

[La_Chiara]

Mickey:

Orthodox consider themselves as Catholic, but not in communion with Rome.

Now wait a minute. My understanding is that eastern Orthodox (such as Greek Orthodox) do NOT consider themselves to be Catholic. Maybe “catholic” (like the Anglicans and Episcopalians) but NOT “Catholic”. Am I wrong?

 

[Mickey]

La Chiara:

Now wait a minute. My understanding is that eastern Orthodox (such as Greek Orthodox) do NOT consider themselves to be Catholic. Maybe “catholic” (like the Anglicans and Episcopalians) but NOT “Catholic”. Am I wrong?

Good question. Perhaps you should pose it on the Orthodox forum.

 

[PaulDupre]

Mickey:

The Orthodox would take issue with you for saying that they must come back into communion with Rome. Perhaps it should be worded:

We must come back into communion with eachother.

Nope, I will not reword the truth. The Catholic Church is the Church established by Christ and those who wish to be united to Christ’s Church must unite with the Pope (the bishop of Rome) or they are not united to the Church. Wishing otherwise will not make it so.

Reality - it’s a killer!

Eastern Orthodox - come back! We love you!

God love you,
Paul

 

[Contarini]

La Chiara:

Now wait a minute. My understanding is that eastern Orthodox (such as Greek Orthodox) do NOT consider themselves to be Catholic. Maybe “catholic” (like the Anglicans and Episcopalians) but NOT “Catholic”. Am I wrong?

There really isn’t a difference between “catholic” and “Catholic.” It’s just a useful way of distinguishing between different definitions of what it means to be Catholic. There are at least four ways to define this:

1. In communion with the See of Rome (not that this is the only criterion, but it’s the one that distinguishes this position from the others), or alternatively with the whole undivided fellowship of bishops who hold the fullness of the apostolic Faith (which as far as I can understand is the Orthodox view)
2. In possession of apostolic, episcopal succession, and adhering to the faith taught by the Seven Councils (though more ecumenical folks would be open to the possibility that churches not accepting certain of the Councils, such as the Coptic and Armenian Churches, might still hold to the faith taught by those Councils). This is the high-church Anglican view, and while Catholics essentially hold to no. 1, more ecumenical Catholics nuance it a bit in the direction of this position (i.e., you clearly see churches with apostolic succession–not including Anglicans of course–as being very close to the fullness of Catholicism in a radically different way from other “ecclesial communities”).
3. Adhering to the apostolic faith in all its essentials–most simply, this means adhering to the Apostles’ and Nicene Creeds, practicing the sacraments of Baptism and the Lord’s Supper, and acknowledging the authority of Holy Scripture (at least of the 66 undisputed books). This is what I would consider the orthodox Protestant view.
4. It is simply a synonym for “universal” and refers to all true Christians. It really doesn’t have anything to do with an institutional church at all. This is the not very thoughtful, blithely pietistic view held by many evangelical Protestants.

All of these are interpretations of the phrase “Catholic Church” in the Creeds. So I’d say that all of them should be capitalized, with the possible exception of the fourth, which really doesn’t describe a Church in the normal sense at all. However, the first two should definitely be capitalized. Adherents of position 3 often don’t capitalize it, but that’s really just a matter of courtesy and convenience.

Edwin

 

[La_Chiara]

Well, we are just going to have to disagree on this one. Only the very first of your four definitions is Catholic with a capital “C”–that is referring to the one true, catholic, apostolic, Church. Only certain Protestant or non-Catholic Christian denominations would agree with definitions #2, 3, or 4 for Catholic with a capital “c”. They may be Christian but they are not Catholic. Just because someone claims to be something, doesn’t make it so. Just because the Mormons (aka, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) claim to be Christian, doesn’t mean other Christian denominations consider them to be Christian. Seems to me that those who claim the title first–the Catholic Church under the bishop of Rome–gets to claim Catholic.