Why the hostility toward Mary?

[PRmerger]

But OTOH, perhaps those who find these stories to be off-putting or fantastic are afflicted with anti-miracle-osis. Which is probably why these are, by and large, the same people who detract the Eucharist, the other great pillar of the Church.

Indeed. One ought to keep in mind that Christianity is a miracle-based religion.

What could test one’s credulity more than God becoming man, suffering in atonement and dying–only to, miraculously, RISE FROM THE DEAD of his own power?!!

 

[Janet1983]

I’ll get us started. <----- non-anti-Mary non-but-sorta-more-or-less-Protestant

I am non-anti-Mary… I don’t embrace all of the Catholic teachings about her, but that doesn’t make me anti-Mary.

 

[Cat_Herder]

I am non-anti-Mary… I don’t embrace all of the Catholic teachings about her, but that doesn’t make me anti-Mary.

[BIBLEDRB]Luke 1:48[/BIBLEDRB]

Do you say the Hail Mary? If not, in what other way have you called Mary blessed today?

 

[PRmerger]

I am non-anti-Mary… I don’t embrace all of the Catholic teachings about her, but that doesn’t make me anti-Mary.

With all due respect, Janet, I doubt you could fully articulate all of the Catholic teachings about Mary; thus, you can’t really reject them.

However, there is no doubt after being on the CAFs for this long you could run rings around the average clueless Joe-Catholic in the pews regarding what the CC teaches on Mary.

But not “embracing all of the Catholic teachings about her”…not so much.

 

[pismopal]

Today I was watching EWTN and they had a feature on Our Lady of Loreto. I had seen Bob and Penny Lord speak on the subject before.

  The story, as many of you know, is that the house of Mary and the Holy Family in Nazareth was miraculously moved by angels, first apparently to Albania or Croatia until the Muslims invaded that area. Then, on Dec.10, 1294 (if I have the story right) shepherds reported seeing a house in the sky, flying across the Adriatic, supported by angels. They saw Our Lady and the Baby Jesus seated on top of the house. The first place in Italy didn't work out, so the Aangels moved the house another time, finally to place it in Loreto, Italy. It has become a popular pilgrimage site, and I believe John Paul II visited it

  No need to debate this matter, but it isn't easy for reasonable people in the 21st century to accept such a story as fact. These stories, of which there are many, make many people skeptical of various claims re Mary, miracles associated with her, her apparitions, etc.  

  Some may say that Catholics are not required to believe such tales. I hope not. But it is such folklore as this that makes Catholicism appear to many to be seriously infected by old superstitions.

  I would not want to show any disrespect to Mary, the mother of Christ. Still, the church needs to marginalize these stories that, in my mind, undermine the the church's credibility. And I also feel that they do an injustice to Mary as well as well as to truth.

The whole Christian faith…the story of Christ…His death and resurrection are written off as superstition by unbelievers. I would not be so hasty to scoff were I you.

 

[Janet1983]

[BIBLEDRB]Luke 1:48[/BIBLEDRB]

Do you say the Hail Mary? If not, in what other way have you called Mary blessed today?

Just because I do not recite a prayer, does not mean that I do not consider her blessed or that I am hostile towards her… I can recite (and sing) the Hail Mary in 3 different languages, but whether or not I recite it doesn’t make a difference in my mind.
Apart from the petition (which was added around the time of Trent) it’s actually taken out of the Vulgata.

Of course she was blessed to have the privilege of giving birth to and raising the Saviour of the World.
Who wouldn’t consider that an enormous blessing?

 

[Janet1983]

With all due respect, Janet, I doubt you could fully articulate all of the Catholic teachings about Mary; thus, you can’t really reject them.

However, there is no doubt after being on the CAFs for this long you could run rings around the average clueless Joe-Catholic in the pews regarding what the CC teaches on Mary.

But not “embracing all of the Catholic teachings about her”…not so much.

Uh. I’m sorry, but I don’t get what you were trying to tell me in connection with what I’ve said.
Maybe I’m just a bit slow today…

 

[rev_kevin]

Just because some of us don’t see Mary the same way you see Mary don’t make us anti-Mary. Do I think she was a blessed woman, yes she was blessed to be the mother of our Savior. Do I believe she was ever virgin, no I don’t believe that. Do I believe she had no other children, no I believe she had other children. Do I believe she was born without sin, no I believe she, like the rest of us, was born with original sin. Do I believe she is worth honoring, yes like I said she was the mother of our Savior.
Now does this make me anti-Mary, no I just see Mary in a different way.

 

[Janet1983]

Just because some of us don’t see Mary the same way you see Mary don’t make us anti-Mary. Do I think she was a blessed woman, yes she was blessed to be the mother of our Savior. Do I believe she was ever virgin, no I don’t believe that. Do I believe she had no other children, no I believe she had other children. Do I believe she was born without sin, no I believe she, like the rest of us, was born with original sin. Do I believe she is worth honoring, yes like I said she was the mother of our Savior.
Now does this make me anti-Mary, no I just see Mary in a different way.

Exactly.

 

[PRmerger]

Just because some of us don’t see Mary the same way you see Mary don’t make us anti-Mary. Do I think she was a blessed woman, yes she was blessed to be the mother of our Savior. Do I believe she was ever virgin, no I don’t believe that. Do I believe she had no other children, no I believe she had other children. Do I believe she was born without sin, no I believe she, like the rest of us, was born with original sin. Do I believe she is worth honoring, yes like I said she was the mother of our Savior.
Now does this make me anti-Mary, no I just see Mary in a different way.

Fair enough.

I think we’re just wondering if you *call *her blessed, as the Scriptures say. As in, the Blessed Mary.

 

[PRmerger]

Uh. I’m sorry, but I don’t get what you were trying to tell me in connection with what I’ve said.
Maybe I’m just a bit slow today…

You say you don’t embrace the Catholic teachings on Mary.

I’m just saying I doubt you could fully articulate all of the Catholic teachings about Mary; thus, you can’t really reject them. You can’t embrace (or reject) something you don’t even know.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Just because I do not recite a prayer, does not mean that I do not consider her blessed or that I am hostile towards her…

Well, friend, the Bible says to call her blessed, not just to consider her blessed. When I am hungry, merely considering Pizza Hut is not going to get them to deliver a deep dish to me. I have to call them.

 

[Janet1983]

You say you don’t embrace the Catholic teachings on Mary.

I’m just saying I doubt you could fully articulate all of the Catholic teachings about Mary; thus, you can’t really reject them. You can’t embrace (or reject) something you don’t even know.

Do you want me to elaborate?
Well I do not believe that Mary was ever-virgin (CCC 499-501), I do not believe in Mary’s Immaculate Conception (Ineffabilis Deus and CCC 491) and I do not believe in her Assumption (Munificentissimus Deus and CCC 966). Having said that I admit that my point of view certainly differs from that of Catholics, but that does not make me hostile towards Mary.
I do call her blessed. Of course she was blessed to have the privilege of giving birth to and raising the Saviour of the World. Yes, she indeed was blessed.
Who wouldn’t consider that an enormous blessing?
I haven’t even been blessed with a child, but she was blessed more than any other woman having had the privilege to give birth to our Saviour.
I am not hostile towards Mary. I just view her differently.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Do you want me to elaborate?
Well I do not believe that Mary was ever-virgin

Why not? Didn’t Ezekiel say that no one else could pass through the Messiah’s gate?

[BIBLEDRB]Ezekiel 44:2[/BIBLEDRB]

I do not believe in Mary’s Immaculate Conception

Why not? Wasn’t the Woman to be at the same enmity with the devil as her Seed?

[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 3:15[/BIBLEDRB]

and I do not believe in her Assumption

Why not? Then who is this Woman?

[BIBLEDRB]Revelation 12:1[/BIBLEDRB]
[BIBLEDRB]Revelation 12:14[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Janet1983]

Why not?

I knew this was going to come and it wouldn’t be the first time…
I will definitely not elaborate on details concerning Revelation. It is a no-go for me as long as I wish to be charitable and to be part of this forum.

I respect your way of seeing her, please respect mine without accusing me that I am hostile towards her.

 

[PRmerger]

Do you want me to elaborate?
Well I do not believe that Mary was ever-virgin (CCC 499-501), I do not believe in Mary’s Immaculate Conception (Ineffabilis Deus and CCC 491) and I do not believe in her Assumption (Munificentissimus Deus and CCC 966). Having said that I admit that my point of view certainly differs from that of Catholics, but that does not make me hostile towards Mary.
I do call her blessed. Of course she was blessed to have the privilege of giving birth to and raising the Saviour of the World. Yes, she indeed was blessed.
Who wouldn’t consider that an enormous blessing?
I haven’t even been blessed with a child, but she was blessed more than any other woman having had the privilege to give birth to our Saviour.
I am not hostile towards Mary. I just view her differently.

I understand you have no hostility towards Mary.

But I am saying that you cannot articulate that which you reject.

You do not believe she was ever virgin, but you could not present an apologia as to why the CC states she is.

You do not believe in the IC; yet if you were challenged to provide an apologia for why the Church proclaims this, you would not be able to.

I’m just sayin’…

 

[Zooey]

Some will listen, some won’t. Some may accept what you say, some won’t (by “accept” I don’t mean necessarily agree with). Just tell them the truth of Catholic teaching, but I wouldn’t waste too much time with those who refuse to listen, if I were you.

Jon

What Jon said.

The hostility toward Mary is simply because it is SHE who draws them back.

You know, that’s extremely insightful. There is a kind of “knee-jerk” violent reaction against Mary, & that makes perfect sense… Thanks for the thought!!

 

[Cat_Herder]

I knew this was going to come and it wouldn’t be the first time…
I will definitely not elaborate on details concerning Revelation. It is a no-go for me as long as I wish to be charitable and to be part of this forum.

[BIBLEDRB]2 Peter 1:20[/BIBLEDRB]

I respect your way of seeing her, please respect mine without accusing me that I am hostile towards her.

No one said that.

 

[PRmerger]

Well, friend, the Bible says to call her blessed, not just to consider her blessed. When I am hungry, merely considering Pizza Hut is not going to get them to deliver a deep dish to me. I have to call them.

That is an excellent point.

I may consider calling my neighbor to help her out when she has her baby, but until I actually CALL her, it means nothing.

Incidentally, it’s worth asking the non-hostile, non-Catholic Christians on this forum to actually CALL Mary blessed,* in fulfillment of the Scriptures*. That is, to put their veneration of Scripture above their discomfort of things-Catholic.

To the non-hostile-to-Mary Christians: will you choose to venerate the Scriptures and call Mary the “Blessed Mother of Christ” or “Blessed Mary”, despite it appearing that you are ceding to a Catholic doctrine? How much is your love of Scripture above your disquiet regarding something Catholic?

 

[PRmerger]

BTW, Janet, I LOVE the quote in your signature:

I don’t deserve anything but hell.
I sinned against an infinitely holy God.
I insulted the most glorious being in the entire universe.
If God would execute perfect justice there would be no moderation, no mercy.
But he saved me!
I don’t have anything apart from Him!

It essentially is a reiteration of the ancient prayer we say at each and every Mass:

Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word and I shall be healed

(which, of course, like all things said in the Divine Liturgy, comes from the Sacred Word itself).

This prayer is said 24/7, every day of the year except Good Friday. It, essentially, is the continual prayer of the Body of Christ!