Why the inconsistency?

[Xuan]

Try reading Leviticus chp. 19 and find where there is no love, for one’s neighbour?
What do you think Christ meant by including the prophets in this?

Hi fbl9,
Thank you for your response. I was simply responding to your comment that in obeying the ten commandments one is obeying Christ’s command to love thy neighbor. The concept of love isn’t mentioned in what are commonly known as the ten commandments.

Leviticus 19 comments on some of the ten commandments and adds other laws, some of which address loving one’s neighbor. So, yes, the concept of loving one’s neighbor existed in the OT; it just wasn’t included in the ten commandments.

 

[elvisman]

i can copy and past pro-OSAS verses also, but that is not what this thread is about.
I wasn’t going to hijack this thread and my font colors won’t be cool as yours.

but lets just say there was a lot of out of context, cherry picking on your posts.

Huh?
Post #31 has nothing to do with OSAS. It is a rebuttal of your remarks about keeping the commandments - and whether or not it is crucial.

This has EVERYTHING to do with the OP - your dodge notwithstanding . . .

**Post #32 wasn’**t about OSAS as much as it was about rebutting your claim:
"I am saved by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone, to the glory of God alone."

I challenged you to provide me with Biblical evidence of this false claim. Apparently, you can’t . . .

 

[tester]

Huh?
Post #31 has nothing to do with OSAS. It is a rebuttal of your remarks about keeping the commandments - and whether or not it is crucial.

This has EVERYTHING to do with the OP - your dodge notwithstanding . . .

Post #32 wasn’t about OSAS as much as it was about rebutting your claim:
"I am saved by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Christ alone, to the glory of God alone."

I challenged you to provide me with Biblical evidence of this false claim. Apparently, you can’t . . .

after almost 5000 posts ; you really don’t know the Protestant Biblical answer to your points?

 

[tester]

Finally – when Paul speaks of works being useless – he is usually talking about works of the Law (Mosaic Law) – NOT works done for and through Christ. Your problem is that you take the Scriptures out of context, cherry-picking only that which you agree upon.

Firstly Abraham was before Moses : so your point is incorrect
Romans 4
Abraham Justified by Faith
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

Matt. 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
IN Context you cherry picked and left out the next verse

• 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’*

Seems like many will come to Jesus and point put all of the WORKS they did for Jesus : forgetting to thank Jesus for what He did. When the all-knowing, omniscient Christ says he never knew you he meant RELATIONSHIP. It is heart issue not your actions.
**In context this is from the Sermon on the Mount: **Chapter 5 says hating will be judged as murder; lust as adultery.
It is heart issue not your actions.

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
Knowledge does not equal salvation. It never said you were saved: Cain believed in God : spoke with Him, had knowledge of the truth. Same with the Pharisees.

James 2:14-26 Works is proof of salvation not the cause

Etc etc etc

 

[elvisman]

after almost 5000 posts ; you really don’t know the Protestant Biblical answer to your points?

**No, not ALL of them. **
There are thousands of different - and contradictory - Protestant opinions on any number of subjects.

**Some Protestant denominations believe in baptismal regeneration, while others do not.
Some believe in soul-sleep, while others do not.
Some believe in the total depravity of man, while others do not.
Some believe in the Holy Trinity, while others do not.
Some believe in a pre-tribulation “Rapture”, while others do not.
Some believe that only those who were predestined will make it to heaven, while others do not.
Some believe that some were predestined for hell, while others do not.
Some believe in a woman’s right to choose abortion, while others do not.
Some believe that practicing homosexuality is a sin, while others do not.
Most believe in contraception, while others do not – and the list goes on.

---

**I ws asking for *your *response.

 

[tester]

Finally – your name CAN be erased from the Book of Life:
Rev. 3:5
“The victor will be dressed in white and I will never erase his name from the book of life; instead, I will acknowledge it before my Father and his angels.”
God can’t erase what wasn’t there in the first place – right?

John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
When does that happen?

John 6:35-37: And Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. "But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.** "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.**

John 10:27-29: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. "And I give them eternal life, **and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.**Romans 5:9: Much more than, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Romans 8:1: [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:35: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 8:38-39: For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
A complete list

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God [are] irrevocable.

1 John 2:19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Oh they NEVER were saved!!

1 Corinthians 15:10: But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but** I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God [which was] with me**.

,

Ephesians 4:30: Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption
.
Philippians 1:6:** being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete [it] until the day of Jesus Christ;**

2 Timothy 1:12: For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.

2 Timothy 2:13: If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Ephesians 1:13-14: In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Psalms 31:23: O love the LORD, all ye his saints: for the LORD preserveth the faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.
Psalms 37:28: For the LORD loves justice; he will not forsake his saints. They are preserved forever, but the children of the wicked shall be cut off.

Psalms 55:22: Cast your burden on the LORD, And He shall sustain you; He shall never permit the righteous to be moved.

etc etc

 

[fbl9]

Hi fbl9,
Thank you for your response. I was simply responding to your comment that in obeying the ten commandments one is obeying Christ’s command to love thy neighbor. The concept of love isn’t mentioned in what are commonly known as the ten commandments.

Leviticus 19 comments on some of the ten commandments and adds other laws, some of which address loving one’s neighbor. So, yes, the concept of loving one’s neighbor existed in the OT; it just wasn’t included in the ten commandments.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour"s goods.If you loved your neighbour would you covet what they have?
Thou shalt not bear false witness. If you loved your neighbour would you bear false witness against them?

Does anybody know why Christ mentions the prophets in this quoteSt.Matthew 22:40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets?

 

[fbl9]

John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
When does that happen?

John 6:35-37: And Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. "But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.** "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.**

John 10:27-29: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. "And I give them eternal life, **and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.**Romans 5:9: Much more than, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Romans 8:1: [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:35: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 8:38-39: For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
A complete list

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God [are] irrevocable.

1 John 2:19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Oh they NEVER were saved!!

1 Corinthians 15:10: But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but** I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God [which was] with me**.

,

Ephesians 4:30: Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption
.
Philippians 1:6:** being confident **of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete [it] until the day of Jesus Christ;

2 Timothy 1:12: For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.

2 Timothy 2:13: If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

**Ephesians 1:13-14: In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance **until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Psalms 31:23: O love the LORD, all ye his saints: for the LORD preserveth the faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.
Psalms 37:28: For the LORD loves justice; he will not forsake his saints. They are preserved forever, but the children of the wicked shall be cut off.

Psalms 55:22: Cast your burden on the LORD, And He shall sustain you; He shall never permit the righteous to be moved.

etc etc

 

[elvisman]

Firstly Abraham was before Moses : so your point is incorrect
Romans 4
Abraham Justified by Faith
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

That’s why I qualified my statement by saying that Paul is usually talking about works of the Law (Mosaic Law) – NOT works done for and through Christ.

However - the CONTEXT of Scripture does not support Sola Fide, nor does it support Sola Scriptura, so your point is moot.

Matt. 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who DOES the will of my Father who is in heaven.”
IN Context you cherry picked and left out the next verse

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Seems like many will come to Jesus and point put all of the WORKS they did for Jesus : forgetting to thank Jesus for what He did. When the all-knowing, omniscient Christ says he never knew you he meant RELATIONSHIP. It is heart issue not your actions.
**In context this is from the Sermon on the Mount: **Chapter 5 says hating will be judged as murder; lust as adultery.
It is heart issue not your actions.

You missed the point of this passage entirely.
This is not about those who thought that they wold be saved by doing works in his name. This is about those who, despite their good works, did NOT do the Father’s will because they were against him at heart. They were against his body (sound familiar?) They proudly thought they were doing his will but they chose their way - NOT his.

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
Knowledge does not equal salvation. It never said you were saved: Cain believed in God : spoke with Him, had knowledge of the truth. Same with the Pharisees.

James 2:14-26 Works is proof of salvation not the cause

Etc etc etc

 

[elvisman]

John 5:24: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
When does that happen?

John 6:35-37: And Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. "But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.** "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.**

John 10:27-29: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

]Romans 5:9: Much more than, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Romans 8:1: [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:35: Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 8:38-39: For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
A complete list

Romans 11:29 For the gifts and the calling of God [are] irrevocable.

1 John 2:19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Oh they NEVER were saved!!

1 Corinthians 15:10: But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God [which was] with me****.

Ephesians 4:30: Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption
.
Philippians 1:6: being confident ****of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete [it] until the day of Jesus Christ;

2 Timothy 1:12: For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.

2 Timothy 2:13: If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

****Ephesians 1:13-14: In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance ****until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Psalms 31:23: O love the LORD, all ye his saints: for the LORD preserveth the faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.
Psalms 37:28: For the LORD loves justice; he will not forsake his saints. They are preserved forever, but the children of the wicked shall be cut off.

Psalms 55:22: Cast your burden on the LORD, And He shall sustain you; He shall never permit the righteous to be moved.

etc etc
Amen to ALL of that.
Unfortunately for you - you don’t read Scripture in CONTEXT.

Nobody can snatch us away from God - NOBODY.
BUT - WE can walk away. That is why we must remain faithful and endure to the end:
Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-22, Matt. 7:21, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, Matt. 24:13, Mat. 7:19-23, Mat. 10:22, John 15:1-6, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 6:4-6, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19, etc.

 

[fbl9]

Amen to ALL of that.
Unfortunately for you - you don’t read Scripture in CONTEXT.

Nobody can snatch us away from God - NOBODY.
BUT - WE can walk away. That is why we must remain faithful and endure to the end:
Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-22, Matt. 7:21, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, Matt. 24:13, Mat. 7:19-23, Mat. 10:22, John 15:1-6, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 6:4-6, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19, etc.

m

 

[fbl9]

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour"s goods.If you loved your neighbour would you covet what they have?
Thou shalt not bear false witness. If you loved your neighbour would you bear false witness against them?

Does anybody know why Christ mentions the prophets in this quoteSt.Matthew 22:40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets?

Amen to ALL of that.
Unfortunately for you - you don’t read Scripture in CONTEXT.

Nobody can snatch us away from God - NOBODY.
BUT - WE can walk away. That is why we must remain faithful and endure to the end:
Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-22, Matt. 7:21, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 4:4, Matt. 24:13, Mat. 7:19-23, Mat. 10:22, John 15:1-6, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 6:4-6, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19, etc.

as tester posted earlier this is not the time or place

How’s about taking a crack at what i posed as a question.

 

[tester]

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour"s goods.If you loved your neighbour would you covet what they have?
Thou shalt not bear false witness. If you loved your neighbour would you bear false witness against them?

Does anybody know why Christ mentions the prophets in this quoteSt.Matthew 22:40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets?

How’s about taking a crack at what i posed as a question.

Revelation 19:10 …“the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

 

[fbl9]

Revelation 19:10 …“the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

Are you thus implying the testimony of Christ is also the spirit of the Law?
“on these depend the Lawand prophets”

 

[Xuan]

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour"s goods.If you loved your neighbour would you covet what they have?
Thou shalt not bear false witness. If you loved your neighbour would you bear false witness against them?

Does anybody know why Christ mentions the prophets in this quoteSt.Matthew 22:40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets?

Hi fbl9,
Thank you for your response. In regard to your examples, isn’t that what I said? Keeping Christ’s commandments would include keeping the ten commandments, and more. In your example, loving someone (Christ’s command) would preclude bearing false witness against him. But simply obeying the commandment wouldn’t necessarily require love.

I get the impression that Christ was saying that love was the basis for the commandments and for what the prophets taught, although that concept didn’t seem to have been introduced initially with the ten commandments. The initial concept seemed to be to simply obey them out of fear of retribution. Then love seems to have been introduced in bits and pieces along the way, as in some of the new laws laid down in Leviticus 19.

 

[elvisman]

as tester posted earlier this is not the time or place

How’s about taking a crack at what i posed as a question.

Take a closer look. I was answering HIS post . . .

 

[gracelife]

I don’t post very often, but I’ve been thinking about this for a long time and I decided to ask the question. I’m posting it here because I’d like non-Catholic opinions too.

Christianity treats the OT commandments like law, not just goals to strive for, but law. If someone violates one of them, it’s a sin, often mortal, and the person is hellbound. It’s pretty much one strike and you’re out.

Well, Christ gave us a couple of commandments too, the second of which is to love your neighbor as yourself. And He made it very clear that your neighbor is everyone.

How many people do you know who actually love everyone as much as they love themselves, or even as much as they love their own children? I’m not talking about platitudes like “I love everyone because they’re all created in the image of God” or “I pray for everyone” or “Love the sinner, hate the sin.” I’m talking about actually loving them: investing as much time, energy, and money toward their betterment as one invests toward one’s own betterment… not just ignoring them.

I don’t know any such people. I don’t think there’s more than a handful of such people in the whole world. Thus, almost the entire human race is in a constant state of violation of Christ’s second commandment. But the Church doesn’t even consider it a sin, especially not a mortal sin.
Instead the Church seems to consider the commandment simply as a goal… something to strive for. Christ didn’t say it was just something to strive for; He said it was a commandment.

So, apparently, we have “commandments” and we have “commandments.” Why aren’t Christ’s commandments treated like “real” commandments Why the inconsistency? I have my own opinion, but I’d like to hear others’ first.

Xuan, no one can keep the commandments. That is why Christ died on the cross for us; for the forgiveness of our sins. That is the main point of the Christian Gospel!

Here is a non-Catholic perspective.

The commandments work as a :

1. 
   *]curb - to stop misbehavior
   *]mirror - to show us our sins
   *]rule - to show us how to behave
   
   In this link mtio.com/articles/bissar85.htm, the Law is referring to the Commandments. It shows how various Christian groups use the Law (commandments).
   The Ten Commandments are summarized in Christ’s command to Love God and to Love Neighbor. The first 2 commands speak of God, the remainder of the 10 commandments speak of our relationship to our neighbor.
   
   But, to keep the letter of the command is not enough, we also need to do these things in love.
   
   Still, we cannot do them. As much as we try, humans still sin.
   
   That is why Christ died on the cross for the remission of our sins. Through faith in Christ’s death and resurrection we have peace.

 

[fbl9]

Take a closer look. I was answering HIS post . . .

Take the initative, your response wasn’t needed.
I respect your posts and asked you to take a crack at my question,. tester did, where’s your response?

 

[fbl9]

Hi fbl9,
Thank you for your response. In regard to your examples, isn’t that what I said? Keeping Christ’s commandments would include keeping the ten commandments, and more. In your example, loving someone (Christ’s command) would preclude bearing false witness against him. But simply obeying the commandment wouldn’t necessarily require love.

I get the impression that Christ was saying that love was the basis for the commandments and for what the prophets taught, although that concept didn’t seem to have been introduced initially with the ten commandments. The initial concept seemed to be to simply obey them out of fear of retribution. Then love seems to have been introduced in bits and pieces along the way, as in some of the new laws laid down in Leviticus 19.

Thanks for your response Xuan;
The part about fear of retribution, helped me understand where you are coming from.

 

[Xuan]

Xuan, no one can keep the commandments. That is why Christ died on the cross for us; for the forgiveness of our sins. That is the main point of the Christian Gospel!

Here is a non-Catholic perspective.

The commandments work as a :

1. 
   *]curb - to stop misbehavior
   *]mirror - to show us our sins
   *]rule - to show us how to behave
   
   In this link mtio.com/articles/bissar85.htm, the Law is referring to the Commandments. It shows how various Christian groups use the Law (commandments).
   The Ten Commandments are summarized in Christ’s command to Love God and to Love Neighbor. The first 2 commands speak of God, the remainder of the 10 commandments speak of our relationship to our neighbor.
   
   But, to keep the letter of the command is not enough, we also need to do these things in love.
   
   Still, we cannot do them. As much as we try, humans still sin.
   
   That is why Christ died on the cross for the remission of our sins. Through faith in Christ’s death and resurrection we have peace.

1. 
   Hi gracelife,
   Thank you for your response. I read your link and found it interesting. I didn’t realize there was such a diversity of opinion about it. I was a little puzzled, though, that the link seemed to find fault with all the faith traditions it listed.
   
   I have a question, just out of curiosity. If a person accepts Christ as his savior, and accepts Christ’s death on the cross as atonement for his sins, and in addition wants to live a virtuous life, why is he accused of trying to “work” his way into heaven?