Why the Insistence on "Roman Catholic"?

[Teflon93]

I call Methodists “Methodists” despite disavowing their methods.

I call Baptists “Baptists” despite disagreeing with their baptismal rites and their lack of valid orders to perform the same.

I call Pentecostals “Pentecostals” despite the fact that they weren’t even around on Pentecost and engage in practices alien to the Early Church.

I call Episcopalians “Episcopalians” despite the fact that their bishops lack valid holy orders.

I call Orthodox “Orthodox” despite the fact that their orthodoxy is different than mine and errant IMO since 1054.

I call Presbyterians “Presbyterians” despite the fact that they lack valid orders to fulfill any such Church office.

I call Jehovah’s Witnesses “Jehovah’s Witnesses” despite my belief that they do not truly see God, having no Eucharist.

I call Lutherans “Lutherans” despite my belief that today’s Lutherans do not (thankfully) hew to the (Edited) doctrines of the heresiarch.

I call each by the name they indicate they are to be called, whether Word-of-Faither, Anabaptist, or Reformed Jew, when I know what that name is. It doesn’t mean I concede the tenets of their theology, doctrine, or dogma to be correct; it certainly doesn’t mean I acknowledge their spiritual authority.

So why is it that certain non-Catholics insist on using the “Roman Catholic” label despite being told:

1. It is inaccurate, since Eastern Rite Catholics are in communion with Rome and not Roman Catholics
2. It is used often as a slur, part of the “Catholics are pagans” myth of old
3. Some Catholics have objected to the use of “Roman Catholic”

So why use it?

 

[BrianH]

It does not seem like something to be that concerned about. Roman Catholic appears to be a term that is undergoing a gradual change to just “Catholic”. But like so many people have commented, A LOT of Catholic churches still put the “Roman” in front of it.
Not to mention, depending on your age, we have a life time of habits to break.
Let me give you an example to make my point. My grandmother always used the term “Negro” (Roman Catholic) and never used the “N WORD” (papist, romish, whore of babylon). But you never could get her to use African American (Catholic).
So it could be a lot worse. Just my opinion
BH

 

[ABostonCatholic]

This used to bother me, too. But it is not inaccurate, since the requirement to be Catholic is to be in union with the Bishop of Rome. So all Catholics, even those not of the Latin Rite, are Roman Catholic in that sense.

Perhaps it’s time we make up a new name. How about the clear and distinct “Petrine Church” or the ecumenical “Western Orthodox” or the blunt “The Church Founded by Jesus Christ”?

 

[Teflon93]

Good points, both.

My question still holds, though—if someone you’re talking to says, “Hey, please don’t use that phrase, I object to that” and you still insist, aren’t you being rude?

And did I miss where this forum is called “Roman Catholic Answers”?

 

[BrianH]

Good points, both.

My question still holds, though—if someone you’re talking to says, “Hey, please don’t use that phrase, I object to that” and you still insist, aren’t you being rude?

And did I miss where this forum is called “Roman Catholic Answers”?

Give it time.
Is this a good time to mention I do not like the Protestant Or THE non-Catholic Christian terms. I prefer just Christians…

 

[Atemi]

I call each by the name they indicate they are to be called

No you do not. This is half the problem with these complaints and gripes.

When you speak about the Eastern Orthodox, you do not call them the Catholic Church…yet they make no less claim to the title than you do.

When you speak of the Traditionalists, you don’t call their church the Catholic Church either…yet they make no less claim to the title than you do.

Why do you demand a courtesy from others what you yourself are not willing to extend?

This cannot be taken seriously at all.

When you start calling the Orthodox, for one example, the Catholic Church, then you may have a point. Until then…

So why is it that certain non-Catholics insist on using the “Roman Catholic” label despite being told:

1. It is inaccurate, since Eastern Rite Catholics are in communion with Rome and not Roman Catholics

Because despite “being told,” those arguments are inaccurate.

Your church is correctly called the Roman Catholic Church. This has been shown again and again.

If it is good enough for Popes and the Vatican, it is good enough for the rest of us. If you don’t like it, then you need to take it up with them, not us.

1. It is used often as a slur, part of the “Catholics are pagans” myth of old

Please.

Roman Catholic is a slur now?

My goodness.

1. Some Catholics have objected to the use of “Roman Catholic”

That is irrelevant IMV.

There is nothing at all inaccurate of offensive about the term. “Some” Catholics do not dictate how the world works.

…

 

[Teflon93]

Case in point. Atemi sure sounds cheerful, doesn’t he?

The Orthodox do not call themselves the Catholic Church, do they? Here in Charlotte they do not, in any case—they call themselves by nationality and creed: The Greek Orthodox, etc.

Moreover, nationality matters, as some friends of mine who tried to become Greek Orthodox here found out.

So no, I do not call other communities by titles I dictate. I call Latter Day Saints “LDS”, for example, although I don’t recognize any such latter day saints.

Simple politeness, combined with some amount of precision and clarity.

If I followed Atemi’s logic, I’d call them Salt Lake City Mormons.

 

[rwoehmke]

Well lads and lassies, if you broaden your horizons a bit beyond your neighborhood, you will find in the UK Catholic Churches that are not Roman Catholic Churches. You will find Irish Catholic Churches in Ireland that are not Roman Catholic Churches. Even in the States there is more than one "Catholic’ Church. For example Polish Catholic and Old Catholic etc. So what is a person to do? We Roman Catholics hardly hold a trademark on the term Catholic.

 

[Atemi]

The Orthodox do not call themselves the Catholic Church, do they?

Yes, they do.

Practice what you preach and then we can talk.

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[Atemi]

Well lads and lassies, if you broaden your horizons a bit beyond your neighborhood, you will find in the UK Catholic Churches that are not Roman Catholic Churches. You will find Irish Catholic Churches in Ireland that are not Roman Catholic Churches. Even in the States there is more than one "Catholic’ Church. For example Polish Catholic and Old Catholic etc. So what is a person to do? We Roman Catholics hardly hold a trademark on the term Catholic.

Exactly.

You got it.

Everyone insists on being called “the Catholic Church” or “Catholics.”

I say: take a number.

Seeking offense where there clearly is none is a symptom of greater issues.

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[Teflon93]

Exactly.

You got it.

Everyone insists on being called “the Catholic Church” or “Catholics.”

I say: take a number.

Seeking offense where there clearly is none is a symptom of greater issues.

…

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Wow, Atemi—had we all your charity what a world it would be!

 

[Michael_Francis]

Maintain charity or expect the thread to close and infractions to be issued.
MF

 

[Atemi]

Wow, Atemi—had we all your charity what a world it would be!

What did I say that lacked charity?



Constant vilification of those you merely diagree with gets old.

…

 

[Teflon93]

Why precisely the insistence on Roman Catholic?

Were you talking to a Catholic who was a dear friend or family member, would you refer to them as “Roman Catholic” despite their request to call them simply Catholics?

Do you refer to “Catholic schools” or “Roman Catholic schools”?

Do you joke, “Is the Pope Catholic?” or “Is the Pope Roman Catholic?”

Is there any other community on your side of the faith line which you refuse to call by the name they know themselves by? Do you use epithets like “Arminians”, for instance?

If so, why precisely do you do such things?

 

[rr1213]

Lutherans and Anglicans, among others, consider themselves to be within the definition of the Catholic Church, yet they use names for themselves that originated as slurs. The term “Lutheran” for example was pinned on those folks by one of Luther’s great opponents, the Catholic Johann Eck:

ctsfw.edu/etext/walther/name_luth.asc

newadvent.org/cathen/05271b.htm

Likewise, “Methodist” was once a pejorative term as well.

newadvent.org/cathen/05271b.htm

In contrast, the term “Catholic”…

*…is most commonly used to mean:

The Roman Catholic Church
The Christian Church in general
Catholic Church is also used to describe other entities:

In Eastern Christianity:

The Eastern Orthodox Church
The Oriental Orthodox Churches
The Assyrian Church of the East

In Western Christianity:

The Old Catholic Church
The Polish National Catholic Church
The Orthodox Catholic Church
The Independent Catholic Churches
The Anglican Communion
For fuller information, see Catholicism

See also
Anglo-Catholicism
Branch Theory
Four Marks of the Church
Neo-Lutheranism *

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholi…ambiguation%29

Moreover, even the Vatican has used the term “Roman Catholic”:

*Instances of the Roman Catholic Church: Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity (May 2003). Final Communiqué of the Joint Group between the Roman Catholic Church and the World Council of Churches. Vatican. Retrieved on 2006-09-14.; Pontifical Council for Promoting Christian Unity (May 2005). Anglican – Roman Catholic International Commission (ARCIC). Vatican. Retrieved on 2006-09-14.; Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews (March 1982). Notes on the Correct Way to Present the Jews and Judaism in Preaching and Catechesis in the Roman Catholic Church. Vatican. Retrieved on 2006-09-14.; Pope Pius XI (December 1929). Divini Illius Magistri. Vatican. Retrieved on 2006-09-14.; Pope Pius XII (August 1950). Humani Generis. Vatican. Retrieved on 2006-09-14. *
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church

(See footnote 11 in the above webcite).

 

[hildegaard]

I call …I call …I call … … …So why is it that certain non-Catholics insist on using the “Roman Catholic” label despite being told:

1. It is inaccurate, since Eastern Rite Catholics are in communion with Rome and not Roman Catholics
2. It is used often as a slur, part of the “Catholics are pagans” myth of old
3. Some Catholics have objected to the use of “Roman Catholic”

So why use it?

Because we have been traditionally called the Roman Catholic Church. While you seem to have some well intentioned reasons to want to change this (courtesy), I personally am tired of all the 2000 years later quarter back changes made in recent years (I realize the term Roman Catholic is likely newer than 2000 years).

Unless you can come up with better reasons than that to change what we are called, I say leave tradition alone, and explain to people why we call ourselves Roman Catholics.

…When you speak of the Traditionalists, you don’t call their church the Catholic Church either…yet they make no less claim to the title than you do

I agree with your points, but take exception to this. I think it is more tha sede’s who claim to be “The Church”, not most traditionalists. Traditionalists just are more sensitive to changing traditions, which puts them on your side on this issue.

(Edited)

 

[rr1213]

Geez, Teflon, even I’m a bit surprised at how poorly your objection to the term “Roman Catholic” is being treated here. There are even a decent number of Roman Catholic posters who find the use either appropriate and/or inoffensive. We all know there are very offensive names that certain people use to refer to Roman Catholics, none of which are justifiable or charitable…but “Roman Catholic” isn’t among that list.

 

[tomarin]

i didn’t even know until i stumbled on this thread that i should be offended at “roman” catholic. i thought it meant a catholic of the roman or latin rite as distinguished from eastern catholics.

when exactly did the term take on a pejorative connotation? i’m truly surprised.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Well lads and lassies, if you broaden your horizons a bit beyond your neighborhood, you will find in the UK Catholic Churches that are not Roman Catholic Churches. You will find Irish Catholic Churches in Ireland that are not Roman Catholic Churches. Even in the States there is more than one "Catholic’ Church. For example Polish Catholic and Old Catholic etc. So what is a person to do? We Roman Catholics hardly hold a trademark on the term Catholic.

Exactly the point. Polish Catholics call themselves that. Russian Orthodox, etc. Latin Rite Catholics who are American do not have an “American Catholic Church” Ignatious of Antioch said Catholic. That is the correct term.

 

[Atemi]

You got all that correct.

I do not know any Roman Catholics that call Anglicans “Catholics.”

We cannot expect from others what we are not willing to do ourselves.

“Some” non-Catholic Christians do not like being called Protestants either. I do not suppose there will be any Catholic crusade here or elsewhere to stop its usage because some find it offensive.

(Edited)

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