N
NewsTheMan
Guest
Hi there! I recently got asked this question and my response was as follows:
"Christianity is the most Jewish religion out there. Catholics are often described as being more Jewish than Jews! I know for one that many of the prayers of the Catholic Mass, and the liturgy in general, is very similar and an orthodox Jew would be like “Hey I kinda know what this all means!” if he came to a Mass. After all, the first Christians were Jews - this isn’t so much a contradiction when you think about it, they were Jews who believed that the Messiah had come. The contradiction is only really relevant later on when people outright reject Christ as a matter of fact. I suppose only in the first few centuries could you claim that you were a Christian Jew. Christianity is the fulfillment of the Jewish religion; it is the coming to be of what God promised.
Jews have been waiting for the Messiah for ages and ages. Judiasm in my understanding is all about the Messiah; at least, the Bible and its content is basically all about the Messiah and his coming. But the Jews rejected Christ. Why?
Well, there are probably a few reasons. Pride is in there. Unwillingness to believe is another (I mean, Jesus fulfills all the prophecy’s, the chances of that happening have been calculated though I can’t find the article atm). But in my understanding this is why they rejected him:
They were opressed by the Romans. And the expected - they WANTED - the Messiah to be a specific person. They wanted him to be a Warrior King, they wanted him to bring suffering to the Romans, they wanted him to be political. But look at the Jesus of the Bible - was he like that? Actually, yes, he was, but in an extremely subtle and humble way. Jesus taught humility, Jesus came as a King born to suffer, he came to save his people not destroy Rome. But he was political, they just didn’t like how political he was!
“Give to ceaser what is ceasers, to God what is Gods” and all that…
but look -
“I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law”
This was Jesus warrior showing. Rabbinic hyperbole, and how Jesus was making a point, he didn’t literally bring a sword and his point about dividing was a point - like how people say, I will seperate the men from the boys. Jesus was saying that he did come to conquer, he came to conquer souls - and in coming people will be divided and seperated about Him (i.e. Believers vs non-believers).
But I think they also rejected him because he was God incarnate, and they refused to believe that God, the second person of the Trinity, could make himself Man and come down from Heaven. This is pure pride, God can do whatever he likes; coming down as Man is nothing for God. But they refused to believe it.
So you see, I do understand that you are trying to make a point that discredits Christianity - that if Jesus really was who he was that (basically) the Jews would have their messiah. But I think you are really just stating the obvious! The Jews did have their Messiah. Some rejected him, and some accepted him. There are 2 billion Christians today. Thats 2 Billions Jews that accepted Jesus as their Messiah (not quite, but in a historical sense it makes sense).
If I went to America and hey I’m Tom whats up. People might be like shut up you aren’t Tom, Tom has attitude and does this and that. Meanwhile, others are like hey its Tom whats up! And they are the ones who I am friends with. The ones who rejected me did precisely that, reject me! It doesn’t make me any less Tom."
Does that make sense, in a simple way?
Someone replied and said I am completely wrong, and he has a PhD in Religious Studies and he said he laughed at my explanation. I asked for clarification!
Also, I found this on a Jewish website and I was pretty stumped!
Jews do not believe that Jesus is the Moshiach (Messiah) because the following have not been fulfilled (at one time on Earth - no second chances!):
"Christianity is the most Jewish religion out there. Catholics are often described as being more Jewish than Jews! I know for one that many of the prayers of the Catholic Mass, and the liturgy in general, is very similar and an orthodox Jew would be like “Hey I kinda know what this all means!” if he came to a Mass. After all, the first Christians were Jews - this isn’t so much a contradiction when you think about it, they were Jews who believed that the Messiah had come. The contradiction is only really relevant later on when people outright reject Christ as a matter of fact. I suppose only in the first few centuries could you claim that you were a Christian Jew. Christianity is the fulfillment of the Jewish religion; it is the coming to be of what God promised.
Jews have been waiting for the Messiah for ages and ages. Judiasm in my understanding is all about the Messiah; at least, the Bible and its content is basically all about the Messiah and his coming. But the Jews rejected Christ. Why?
Well, there are probably a few reasons. Pride is in there. Unwillingness to believe is another (I mean, Jesus fulfills all the prophecy’s, the chances of that happening have been calculated though I can’t find the article atm). But in my understanding this is why they rejected him:
They were opressed by the Romans. And the expected - they WANTED - the Messiah to be a specific person. They wanted him to be a Warrior King, they wanted him to bring suffering to the Romans, they wanted him to be political. But look at the Jesus of the Bible - was he like that? Actually, yes, he was, but in an extremely subtle and humble way. Jesus taught humility, Jesus came as a King born to suffer, he came to save his people not destroy Rome. But he was political, they just didn’t like how political he was!
“Give to ceaser what is ceasers, to God what is Gods” and all that…
but look -
“I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law”
This was Jesus warrior showing. Rabbinic hyperbole, and how Jesus was making a point, he didn’t literally bring a sword and his point about dividing was a point - like how people say, I will seperate the men from the boys. Jesus was saying that he did come to conquer, he came to conquer souls - and in coming people will be divided and seperated about Him (i.e. Believers vs non-believers).
But I think they also rejected him because he was God incarnate, and they refused to believe that God, the second person of the Trinity, could make himself Man and come down from Heaven. This is pure pride, God can do whatever he likes; coming down as Man is nothing for God. But they refused to believe it.
So you see, I do understand that you are trying to make a point that discredits Christianity - that if Jesus really was who he was that (basically) the Jews would have their messiah. But I think you are really just stating the obvious! The Jews did have their Messiah. Some rejected him, and some accepted him. There are 2 billion Christians today. Thats 2 Billions Jews that accepted Jesus as their Messiah (not quite, but in a historical sense it makes sense).
If I went to America and hey I’m Tom whats up. People might be like shut up you aren’t Tom, Tom has attitude and does this and that. Meanwhile, others are like hey its Tom whats up! And they are the ones who I am friends with. The ones who rejected me did precisely that, reject me! It doesn’t make me any less Tom."
Does that make sense, in a simple way?
Someone replied and said I am completely wrong, and he has a PhD in Religious Studies and he said he laughed at my explanation. I asked for clarification!
Also, I found this on a Jewish website and I was pretty stumped!
Jews do not believe that Jesus is the Moshiach (Messiah) because the following have not been fulfilled (at one time on Earth - no second chances!):
- The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)
- Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)
- The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)
- He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8-10)
- The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with “fear of God” (Isaiah 11:2)
- Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
- Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)
- He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
- All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
- Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)
- There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
- All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
- The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)
- He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)
- Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)
- The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)
- The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
- Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
- The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvot
- He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)
- Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)
- He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)
- He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9).