Why the Liturgical Abuse?

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Pariah_Pirana

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For some time I have pondered why liturgical abuse and irregularities persist in some parishes. At fist I thought it was due to

Ignorance and arrogance.

The more I studied though, the less I was sure any group of people could be that ignorant and arrogant. After awhile I began to believe that

What the Church directed was simply more profound than what I could look-up in the GIRM, CCC, Code of Canons, etc. I figured I lacked the background in theology and philosophy to understand why they do what they do.

After getting some insight into our permanent diaconate program formation (it’s LIMEX and it’s horrible) and the heretical garbage they stress, I now feel that

They know darned well what they are doing and they are forcing a tired and dissident agenda come hell or high water. Change through brute force. Only now their steam is running out and they are becoming freightened.

Why do you feel that liturgical abuse and irregularities exist?
 
Pariah Pirana:
Why do you feel that liturgical abuse and irregularities exist?
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Because Satan is subtle. He is attempting to detroy The Church, by attacking The Holy Mass.
There may be in the future a shismatic “American Catholic Church” that formally separates itself from the Vatican, but more likely will be the minor “innovations”.
 
Pariah Pirana:
For some time I have pondered why liturgical abuse and irregularities persist in some parishes. At fist I thought it was due to

Ignorance and arrogance.

The more I studied though, the less I was sure any group of people could be that ignorant and arrogant. After awhile I began to believe that

What the Church directed was simply more profound than what I could look-up in the GIRM, CCC, Code of Canons, etc. I figured I lacked the background in theology and philosophy to understand why they do what they do.

After getting some insight into our permanent diaconate program formation (it’s LIMEX and it’s horrible) and the heretical garbage they stress, I now feel that

They know darned well what they are doing and they are forcing a tired and dissident agenda come hell or high water. Change through brute force. Only now their steam is running out and they are becoming freightened.

Why do you feel that liturgical abuse and irregularities exist?
Click to expand...
I agree completely with your Post.
I also have come to the same conclusions.
Last year,during talks between the SSPX, and cardinal Hoyos. The cardinal is quoted as saying “We need you in the church to fight modernism” This letter can be accessed on the SSPX homepage. accordingly the response from one of the SSPX Bishops was “Eminence in many places we are now 2 different Religions”. I couldn’t agree more.

Christopher slatterly, A contributor to the Latin Mass Magazine. Has written “Their are 2 Religions fighting for the soul of one Church.”
 
Why do you feel that liturgical abuse and irregularities exist?
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Probably because there are so many different options in the mass nowadays, there just is a lot more opportunity for inadvertant errors.

Different options exist for opening rites, for penitential rites, for eucharistic prayers, memorial acclamations, etc., all are legitimate.

In addition the mass is said in a myriad of languages, everyone of them is a different option, different protocols for receiving communion are also recognized.

A bevy of lectors and readers and eucharistic ministers, all have their fingers in the liturgical pie, and not all of them are an informed as they ought to be.

So many options, so many people, I’m suprised that the masses are as regular as they are, and there aren’t more irregularities.
 
Lux in Tenebris:
I agree completely with your Post.
I also have come to the same conclusions.
Last year,during talks between the SSPX, and cardinal Hoyos. The cardinal is quoted as saying “We need you in the church to fight modernism” This letter can be accessed on the SSPX homepage. accordingly the response from one of the SSPX Bishops was “Eminence in many places we are now 2 different Religions”. I couldn’t agree more.

Christopher slatterly, A contributor to the Latin Mass Magazine. Has written “Their are 2 Religions fighting for the soul of one Church.”
Click to expand...
Two religions? Yep. Catholicism and a specific sect of Protestantism (SSPX.) Please don’t bring up the SSPX on a serious thread like this. All that group does is aid the heterodox by presenting such a wacko picture of what they call “orthodoxy.”
 
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Kielbasi:
Probably because there are so many different options in the mass nowadays, there just is a lot more opportunity for inadvertant errors.

Different options exist for opening rites, for penitential rites, for eucharistic prayers, memorial acclamations, etc., all are legitimate.

In addition the mass is said in a myriad of languages, everyone of them is a different option, different protocols for receiving communion are also recognized.

A bevy of lectors and readers and eucharistic ministers, all have their fingers in the liturgical pie, and not all of them are an informed as they ought to be.

So many options, so many people, I’m suprised that the masses are as regular as they are, and there aren’t more irregularities.
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So you think it boils down mainly to confusion brought about by flexibility, and poor catechesis? I think both are very sound reasons, but I think there must be more…
 
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chicago:
Touch/feely, nicey nice extroverts.
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Pride and Narsisism. Some people think it’s all about them. All about how they are more holy than anyone else. How they are more Christlike than anyone else. How they do things better than anyone else.
 
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Kielbasi:
Different options exist for opening rites, for penitential rites, for eucharistic prayers, memorial acclamations, etc., all are legitimate.
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This is a very important aspect. It is not about what anyone likes or dislikes—it is about what is allowed.
In addition the mass is said in a myriad of languages, everyone of them is a different option, different protocols for receiving communion are also recognized
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Yes, it was not conducive to unity to approve a standing norm and allow kneeling. Allowing such an obviously parodoxical situation has really set the stage for much friction.
A bevy of lectors and readers and eucharistic ministers, all have their fingers in the liturgical pie, and not all of them are an informed as they ought to be.
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This is very true, and much of the information is quite available.
“eucharistic ministers”? These are the Celebrants The ordinary ministers of Holy Communion are Priests & Deacons. I assume you are referring to EMHC (Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion} Lectors are also ministers–usually a minor order in Seminary, and very well informed.
So many options, so many people, I’m suprised that the masses are as regular as they are, and there aren’t more irregularities.
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And many of the so-called irregularities are allowable options. The Body of Christ is a living organism, and not too rigid to include people from all cultures.
 
And many of the so-called irregularities are allowable options. The Body of Christ is a living organism, and not too rigid to include people from all cultures.
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This thread is about Liturgical Abuse. It is not about allowable options. If you have not witnessed abuse, that is good for you, wish I could say the same.
Our priest announced he didn’t agree with not allowing the EMHC on the alter untl after his communion and he wasn’t complying with it. How do I expain why he did that and other things?
PRIDE
 
Ann Cheryl:
Our priest announced he didn’t agree with not allowing the EMHC on the alter untl after his communion and he wasn’t complying with it. How do I expain why he did that and other things?
PRIDE
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Agree. PRIDE and a lack of OBEDIENCE stemming from pride. As was pointed out earlier, there are options within the GIRM. So why the need to deviate from the GIRM? And when a priest enacts his own dissent from the norm, he opens the doors for others dissent, and makes it more difficult to shut the door. So why not just be obedient?

Isn’t the root of heretic=to pick and to choose? Isn’t that what we are doing when we selectively enforce the norms?

My priest thinks I’m a right of rigid radical. My response, just do what the book says. Why, in the name of reaching out to others or “Touch/feely, nicey nice extroverts” do we have to imply that our vision of the mass is better than that of the apostolic Church?

I have to go sacristan at a mass that’s using the Gloria by Mike Anderson now, and I’m depressed about it. All in the name of reaching out to the kids. Like the body of Christ isn’t enough. oy.
 
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Mysty101:
…And many of the so-called irregularities are allowable options. The Body of Christ is a living organism, and not too rigid to include people from all cultures.
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No, they aren’t. While some of the SSPX crowd wails away on what they like and dislike (versus what the Church actually directs), I am talking about genuine liturgical abuses and irregularites.

An example of an abuse would be trying to consecrate an Oreo or Welch’s grape juice. An example of an irregularlity would be using Waterford Crystal chalices (yes, the actually make them) in place of sacred vessels that meet the spcifications set forth by the Church.
 
One word. Modernism. Pius X, and XII warned that it would rear its ugly head again. And it certainly has, with avengence!

Pius XII also warned that changing the liturgy is suicide, but Paul VI went ahead and did it anyway. And we are suffering the consequences. I make no judgement on Paul VI’s subjective disposition.

Usque.
 
"Two Southern California Bishops challenge and ignore Rome’s Liturgy Documents?"

[thread=42712] click here [/thread]
 
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