Why the Occupy Movement is Right

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news.yahoo.com/hedge-fund-abuses-hurt-investors-170408923.html;_ylt=AnTg4BGKLz_M2XkW7O6jSZGw73QA;_ylu=X3oDMTMyOWk3dGZuBG1pdANBcnRpY2xlIFJlbGF0ZWQgSUIEcGtnAzZhNzFjYzljLTczNDgtMzViNi1iMjRhLWRiOWRiOTMzYWNkZARwb3MDNARzZWMDTWVkaWFJbmZpbml0ZUJyb3dzZQR2ZXID;_ylg=X3oDMTMxOWFpMzNzBGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDNTUyYTFhZWUtN2Y0NC0zYzU2LTkzODYtNDA4YWJmYzY3OGI2BHBzdGNhdANidXNpbmVzcwRwdANzdG9yeXBhZ2UEdGVzdAM-;_ylv=3

This is a link to an interesting story in Forbes about classic, anti-capitalism behavior by those who are supposed to be in charge of our “capitalist” system.

I’m no socialist. I just point out that insider trading, unregulated markets and lying suck-up ratings firms will kill capitalism every time.

Regulation ain’t a sin! It helps make the game go along. That’s why there are referees and umpires, and rules the players play by. Otherwise, it’s a system of me-first shoving pigs at the trough who’ll take about ten minutes to knock everybody down before the whole thing collapses.

Do you not think the Princes of Wall Street, Yale degrees in hand, do not know this is anti-social behavior with negative consequences?
 
And I want this Joker, this Jon Corzine, to 'fess up to where MF Global’s money is!
 
kmuestwin said:
I don’t understand the Occupy Movement :confused:
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Here’s the thing; there is a strong mobilization of bias in the States. The big corporations are considered too big too fail and get a big bailout. While I am not against this, small businesses and homeowners didn’t get bailouts, and businesses had to shut their doors and homeowners were foreclosed on.

The richest Americans got huge tax cuts from George Bush and Barack Obama that they don’t need. They get richer while the poor stay poor. They’re not given any sort of advantage. The middle and lower classes are the most vulnerable and have less. They are the ones who deserve the lower taxes. It is called the progressive income tax, in which the poor pay less and the rich pay more. During the golden age of capitalism, the rich paid higher taxes. There used to be an understanding of the the fairness of Fordism. Warren Buffet says that his secretary pays a higher percentage of taxes than he does. Disregarding your own opinion of him, does that seem fair?

I think this is what these people are protesting. This gross inequality and favouritism for the rich has gone on too long
 
What are the occupiers even after? They don’t seem to have any uniform concrete ideas. I saw some in downtown Chicago and couldn’t grasp their ideas.
 
Gift_from_God said:
Here’s the thing; there is a strong mobilization of bias in the States. The big corporations are considered too big too fail and get a big bailout. While I am not against this, small businesses and homeowners didn’t get bailouts, and businesses had to shut their doors and homeowners were foreclosed on.

The richest Americans got huge tax cuts from George Bush and Barack Obama that they don’t need. They get richer while the poor stay poor. They’re not given any sort of advantage. The middle and lower classes are the most vulnerable and have less. They are the ones who deserve the lower taxes. It is called the progressive income tax, in which the poor pay less and the rich pay more. During the golden age of capitalism, the rich paid higher taxes. There used to be an understanding of the the fairness of Fordism. Warren Buffet says that his secretary pays a higher percentage of taxes than he does. Disregarding your own opinion of him, does that seem fair?

I think this is what these people are protesting. This gross inequality and favouritism for the rich has gone on too long
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You realize the ‘rich’ pay the vast majority of taxes in the USA right? Many people don’t contribute in any way and feel they are entitled to even more free government handouts.
 
Gift_from_God said:
Here’s the thing; there is a strong mobilization of bias in the States. The big corporations are considered too big too fail and get a big bailout. While I am not against this, small businesses and homeowners didn’t get bailouts, and businesses had to shut their doors and homeowners were foreclosed on.

The richest Americans got huge tax cuts from George Bush and Barack Obama that they don’t need. They get richer while the poor stay poor. They’re not given any sort of advantage. The middle and lower classes are the most vulnerable and have less. They are the ones who deserve the lower taxes. It is called the progressive income tax, in which the poor pay less and the rich pay more. During the golden age of capitalism, the rich paid higher taxes. There used to be an understanding of the the fairness of Fordism. Warren Buffet says that his secretary pays a higher percentage of taxes than he does. Disregarding your own opinion of him, does that seem fair?

I think this is what these people are protesting. This gross inequality and favouritism for the rich has gone on too long
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And here I thought that the CCC frowned upon class envy. Silly me.

Of course, it’s the poor who create jobs… while the rich sit on their money laughing.
 
eo_chibears said:
You realize the ‘rich’ pay the vast majority of taxes in the USA right? Many people don’t contribute in any way and feel they are entitled to even more free government handouts.
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In total revenue, but not as a percentage compared to the poor and middle-class. I ask again; does it seem fair that a poor person pay a higher percentage of his or her income than a wealthy person? It doesn’t seem fair to me
 
If you don’t understand the occupy movement, read up. If you don’t want to understand…stand down. 🙂
 
eo_chibears said:
You realize the ‘rich’ pay the vast majority of taxes in the USA right? Many people don’t contribute in any way and feel they are entitled to even more free government handouts.
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A wealthy entrepreneur I know made a comment that I found compelling, though it will never happen. He said that something like 8% of the population pays 90%+ of the taxes. Some of those people don’t make huge amounts, but some do. And most of those that do actually do pay taxes on their income.

Anyway, he said the way that 8% could totally change the government spending policy in two years is to spend one year spending very little money. …saving as much as possible. The next year, they should give their entire incomes to charity down to the “no tax” level…100% of it. The government would be on its knees in one year if they did that. If those people could find a leader, they could then demand reduction in government spending and the government would have to go along with it. Would be helpful to charities as well.

I know, pipe-dreaming. But it’s an interesting thought. I guess if Atlas ever did decide to shrug (in ways other than his current passive-resistance strategy of not hiring and not spending) that’s one way he could do it.
 
eo_chibears said:
You can spin it any way you want, but the fact of the matter is the rich pay their fair share.
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Actually, representing the amount they pay as a percentage would be the most accurate way, without spin. If a rich person pays 15% of his income on taxes, and a poor person pays 18% of their income on taxes…then no, the rich is not paying their fair share.
 
People definitely have the right to complain and display their views, assemble peacefully, etc. 🙂

But they don’t have the right to create health hazards, camp out where people are trying to get to work, keep dock workers from making their wages, defacate in public places, take income from small businesses that surround the “occupy” areas, commit crimes of violence within their “camps”, overdose on heroin, shoot each other, etc.😦 All these things have happened, not to mention to cost to the average taxpayer in cleaning up the messes they make.

There are more peaceful and effective ways to demonstrate, such as marches, contacting representatives, going to Washington, etc., meetings. The occupy movement is class envy, sure, but they also have points to make which won’t be effective unless they go about it in a more civilized manner. My :twocents:
 
Garyjohn2 said:
Actually, representing the amount they pay as a percentage would be the most accurate way, without spin. If a rich person pays 15% of his income on taxes, and a poor person pays 18% of their income on taxes…then no, the rich is not paying their fair share.
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I don’t know where you got your pecentages from, I guess you picked them out of the air for the sake of argument. But anyways, if somebody makes $500k and pays 15%, they would pay $75K in taxes. Someone who makes $20,000 and pays 18% pays $3600. But the person making $20,000 would get the majority of it back in a tax return. So it looks like the wealthier person is paying their fair share to me.
 
Gift_from_God said:
In total revenue, but not as a percentage compared to the poor and middle-class. I ask again; does it seem fair that a poor person pay a higher percentage of his or her income than a wealthy person? It doesn’t seem fair to me
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Nothing about life is “fair”. Ask a blind person, and he’ll tell you. Ask an ugly teenage girl.

The purpose of taxation is to pay for appropriate government. When government is reckless and stupid and self-serving and corrupt, there is no particular reason for anyone to think any part of the system is “fair”. So the plea for “fairness” understandably falls on deaf ears except for those ears who think (foolishly almost 100% of the time) that somehow they are going to get some part of the money that is taken from a wealthier person.

And requiring things to be “fair” is, in my mind, a slippery slope. Where do we end with our demand for 'fairness". Should we divide all the money per capita, but big houses in two? Should we, like the Bolsheviks, move ten families into someone’s McMansion? Should, indeed, the ugly girls be made pretty somehow, or the pretty girls made ugly?
 
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