Why the smaller "Our Father"?

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dje101

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Hello all,

I don’t think this belongs in the apologetics, but if it does, I’m sorry.

I was just wondering why the CC says the smaller of the two “Our Father” prayers that are said in scripture? I kind of like the ending to the longer one…
 
dje101 said:
Hello all,

I don’t think this belongs in the apologetics, but if it does, I’m sorry.

I was just wondering why the CC says the smaller of the two “Our Father” prayers that are said in scripture? I kind of like the ending to the longer one…
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Do you mean ‘for thine is the kingdom, power and the glory for ever and ever amen’?

It’s used by Catholics during Mass but not attached to the Lord’s Prayer. It’s my understanding that the earliest manuscripts don’t contain that line. It’s found in later documents and seems to have been added some time after the Gospel was written.
 
Phemie said:
Do you mean ‘for thine is the kingdom, power and the glory for ever and ever amen’?

It’s used by Catholics during Mass but not attached to the Lord’s Prayer. It’s my understanding that the earliest manuscripts don’t contain that line. It’s found in later documents and seems to have been added some time after the Gospel was written.
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I thought that it might have been something to that effect. So does the Church just not use it because they are trying to stay as close to the original manuscripts as possible? I mean, they agree with it, right?
 
The Lord’s prayer does not contain the words “Thine is the kingdom, power and the glory for ever and ever amen”. The doxology is found in the Didache and it is used in during the Mass in the Latin rite after the priest says an invocation immediately after the Our Father. In the Catholic Byzantine Divine Liturgy and in the Maronite Mass (Catholic too) it is said together with the Our Father and that is consistent with its presence in the more recent manuscripts representatives of the Byzantine text and not the Alexandrian one.
 
In our Church we pray the Lord’s prayer, then the priest tells a short prayer and then we say the “Thine is the kingdom, power and the glory for ever and ever amen”. I have never asked why though, maybe now i will 🙂
 
Apparently the rubrics (?) of the Mass has changed.

Back in the 70’s - 80’s, when I was a teen, after we said the “Our Father” the priest would say a prayer and then the laity would join him in prayer or in song saying, “For Thine is the power, the kingdom and the glory, now and forever.”

I remember the Forever prayer, singing it - because it went on forever 🙂

Forev…er and ev…er Am…en
 
In the Latin OF it is Quia tuum est regnum, et potestas, et gloria in saecula. For some reason they didn’t use the somewhat stronger in saecula seculorum or ab aeterno in aeternum, per Chronicles I 29:10-11
 
The shorter version of the Our Father

Luke 11:[2] And he said to them: When you pray, say: Father, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. [3] Give us this day our daily bread. [4] And forgive us our sins, for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation.

is not used bu the Catholic Church, we use the longer version

Matt 6:[9] … Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. [10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. [11] Give us this day our supersubstantial bread. [12] And forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors. [13] And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen.

This Matthew’s text was written down in 36 AD, somtimes in the turn of the 2nd century a Doxology was added:

For the kingdom, the power and the glory are yours now and for ever.

Some manuscripts from the Byzantine times added this to Matthew’s text. In the time, when the protestantism born the so called Textus Receptus (the Greek text of the new testament) had the doxology included, so many early protestant Bibles translated it into the text. Newer translation, and the recent standard for Greek does not includes the doxology.

The new form of the Mass is using this in the Mass but separated from the original of the prayer.
 
I was never really fond of that additional ending. Just never really seemed to go with the rhythm of the other part. But yes, we say it in Mass.
 
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