Why the Wiccans?

[HauntedJame]

I’ve noticed in this forum that there’s a lot of resistance towards Wiccans. I suppose my question is why Wicca is more frightening/wrong in the eyes of some people than Islam or other religions? I mean, wouldn’t Satanism be the one that people would be against rather than Wicca?

 

[LDNCatholic]

I’ve noticed in this forum that there’s a lot of resistance towards Wiccans. I suppose my question is why Wicca is more frightening/wrong in the eyes of some people than Islam or other religions? I mean, wouldn’t Satanism be the one that people would be against rather than Wicca?

You only need to read the sheer volume of threads on Islam and Mormonism to see that Wicca is significantly lower on the list of concerns.

Personally as Witchcraft is of Satan, I would think that, regardless of the beliefs of the Wiccans themselves, by Catholic thought, Wicca is a gateway to Satanism, if not merely Satanism disguised.

 

[MichaelR]

I’ve noticed a few comments on it in totally irrelevant threads LOL It seems to be on the mind. I really don’t get it myself. I think that perhaps they think ‘witch’ and ‘witchcraft’ and think of the old myth of witches that were connected with devils, demons and satans rather than understanding that the craft is around is nature and what is in this world.

 

[HauntedJame]

You only need to read the sheer volume of threads on Islam and Mormonism to see that Wicca is significantly lower on the list of concerns.

Personally as Witchcraft is of Satan, I would think that, regardless of the beliefs of the Wiccans themselves, by Catholic thought, Wicca is a gateway to Satanism, if not merely Satanism disguised.

You are right, it isn’t that high on the list of concerns. But a lot of people do still react very negatively.

But the ideas behind Wiccan is completely different from Satanism…for instance…they don’t believe in Satan. Don’t you need to believe in Satan to be a Satanist?

 

[HauntedJame]

I’ve noticed a few comments on it in totally irrelevant threads LOL It seems to be on the mind. I really don’t get it myself. I think that perhaps they think ‘witch’ and ‘witchcraft’ and think of the old myth of witches that were connected with devils, demons and satans rather than understanding that the craft is around is nature and what is in this world.

Yes, I have to admit that is why I opened this thread. I am curious if it is just the idea of doing spells, or misunderstandings that is causing the clear dislike of Wicca.

Personally, I see no harm in it. I even wish I could be as open and kind as some Wiccans I know!

 

[Dale_M]

You only need to read the sheer volume of threads on Islam and Mormonism to see that Wicca is significantly lower on the list of concerns.

I agree, which is why I was surprised by this thread.

Personally as Witchcraft is of Satan…

Well, maybe I shouldn’t be so surprised. I don’t think many CAF members say that Islam and Mormonism are Satanic. Is the notion of Wicca having Satanic connections a common belief here?

 

[IHeartAquinas]

the craft is around is nature and what is in this world.

That is the crux of the matter. Islam and Mormonism are high concerns of many Catholic apologists because of the danger their spread faces poorly-educated Catholics. Sheep-stealing, we call it.

But the reason Wicca is derided if not outright reviled is that, unlike Islam and Mormonism, Wicca does not seek union with something beyond. It is a religion steeped in nature, in creation. While I admire anyone who appreciates creation, it is transient and God is beyond the physical world. Beyond that more esoteric understanding of Wicca, it is my understanding that many believe in reincarnation, and their understanding of an “afterlife” is only a stopping point between lives. Their focus is in the world, and living “for the world” is opposed to Catholic teaching in which we are to live in the world but not for it. There is an aesthetic self-denial intrinsic to Catholicism that is absent in Wicca. Yes in Wicca you cannot go about killing anyone you want because self-gratification is not encouraged, but Wiccan theology is bound to the world, and the only way to properly celebrate it is to indulge in the world.

Islam and Mormonism both teach a focus on the state of your soul and the eternity that awaits it. So while their worldly practices and theology are ultimately threatening, they are at least looking in the same direction as Catholics (generally speaking, I know a lot of CAF’ers that will start flaming me for saying as much), but Wiccans are looking in the opposite direction. Because Catholicism identifies their focus with God, by extension, we view Wiccans as staring Satan in the face and welcoming him with open arms.

That’s why it comes up in irrelevant threads and that is why it’s one of those big concerns of Catholics. It’s relative minority status, however, means that it does not have the urgency of Islam or Mormonism.

 

[Cable]

I agree, which is why I was surprised by this thread.

Well, maybe I shouldn’t be so surprised. I don’t think many CAF members say that Islam and Mormonism are Satanic. Is the notion of Wicca having Satanic connections a common belief here?

only if the person who says they’re doing “Wicca” is doing actions & saying words to try to harness supernatural power or information from demons or satan.

 

[JDZwiers19]

You are right, it isn’t that high on the list of concerns. But a lot of people do still react very negatively.

But the ideas behind Wiccan is completely different from Satanism…for instance…they don’t believe in Satan. Don’t you need to believe in Satan to be a Satanist?

Wiccan’s claim not to believe in Satan but they worship the Honed God who is often depicted with bat wings and cloven hoofs. They have a pentagram as their holy symbol (Satanism uses an inverted pentagram) and their one law goes something like “do what you want as long as you don’t harm anyone”. This law is exactly what Satan would say to tempt us into sin.

These “coincidences” (if you can call them that) are actually pretty frightening if you really think about them from a Catholics perspective.

 

[sojo]

Wicca is in actuality a “new” religion. It is a conscious attempt to recreate what was originally Wicca, but pretty much died out. I met Starhawk, one of the super big Wicca Priestesses, and author of many books on Wicca. She admits that there were no real guidelines passes down to this generation… just loose ideas of rituals. What is Wicca now is a neo-Pagan religion (new), not the actual Witch/Wiccan Craft we read about in literature.

So I think the fear is mostly based on the unknown. No, Wiccans do not believe in evil at all, much less Satan. They are NOT Satanists. Just like people feared Catholics as cannibalists, and Jews for blood sacrifice of babies, now Christians fear Wiccans.

I do not fear Wiccans, personally. I find them to be honest, caring, loving if misguided people with a love a nature. They seem to have a profound spiritual call, and they could very well be on the path that will eventually lead to Christ. Lots of twists and turns for some of us as we perceive the call but lack a map! Most seem to have a lot of respect for my Catholicism, and they are willing to discuss those things we have in common and those things we differ on.

Satanists, on the other hand, do scare me a lot. There is a poster on an ebay board I belong to that is an avowed Satanist. I read a little bit from her own blog and then scooted out of there pronto. They acknowledge God and Satan, whom they believe is the lord of the earth, and they have thrown in their towel with Satan. I in no way feel I could safely be a witness to such folks so I can only pray for them.

 

[Nine_Two]

I’ve noticed a few comments on it in totally irrelevant threads LOL It seems to be on the mind. I really don’t get it myself. I think that perhaps they think ‘witch’ and ‘witchcraft’ and think of the old myth of witches that were connected with devils, demons and satans rather than understanding that the craft is around is nature and what is in this world.

In fairness the Wiccans don’t help themselves by calling themselves “Witches” and identifying their religion with that of the people who were burned at the stake for devil worship.

 

[LDNCatholic]

You are right, it isn’t that high on the list of concerns. But a lot of people do still react very negatively.

But the ideas behind Wiccan is completely different from Satanism…for instance…they don’t believe in Satan. Don’t you need to believe in Satan to be a Satanist?

Belief in Satanism is not even a prerequisite to be a Satanist, no (most Satanists are atheists). After all:

‘‘The devil’s greatest trick was convincing the world that he doesn’t exist’’

Magic, in any form is attributed to the devil. If their power come’s from the devil then they are following him, whether they acknowledge it or not.

 

[HauntedJame]

Hehe, retcon the lot of them! Where’s Torchwood when you need them? Sorry…couldn’t resist…err…back to this…

I think that the reason for the fuzzy thinking is that there’s a lot of schools of Wicca; different paths people take. It seems a very personal religion, or concept, much like “personal Christianity” is to some people.

The pentagram is, if my research is correct, representing the four elements/directions and the higher power, or spirit. So you have north, south, east and west or earth, fire, wind and water, and the Goddess or Green Man or God. Which I suppose corresponds to the Celtic crosses you can get now, which is considered very Christian (unless a goth wears it).

 

[HauntedJame]

In fairness the Wiccans don’t help themselves by calling themselves “Witches” and identifying their religion with that of the people who were burned at the stake for devil worship.

But the devil worship was something that the Catholic Church attributed to them; they rarely said they did so unless they were tortured into a “confession”. Most of the witches burnt were so-called “wisewomen”, people with a great knowledge of herbalism, often acting as midwives and healers in villages.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Which I suppose corresponds to the Celtic crosses you can get now, which is considered very Christian (unless a goth wears it).

Or a White Nationalist.

 

[MichaelR]

Belief in Satanism is not even a prerequisite to be a Satanist, no (most Satanists are atheists). After all:

‘‘The devil’s greatest trick was convincing the world that he doesn’t exist’’

Magic, in any form is attributed to the devil. If their power come’s from the devil then they are following him, whether they acknowledge it or not.

Erm…to worship a being, you sort of have to believe in it. Being apathetic is different from actively worshipping it, which is what satanists do…so if you don’t believe in satan, you can’t worship him. That would sort of be like saying you can be a Catholic without believing in God, because He’s just there.

I can’t speak on behalf of Wiccans because I’m not one, but to be fair, of those I know, I have never once heard them refer to themselves as witches…I only hear other people call them witches.

I also believe that they do believe in a higher power, they just happen to believe that the world around us is that higher power…that’s what my friend told me anyway.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Erm…to worship a being, you sort of have to believe in it. Being apathetic is different from actively worshipping it, which is what satanists do…so if you don’t believe in satan, you can’t worship him. That would sort of be like saying you can be a Catholic without believing in God, because He’s just there.

I can’t speak on behalf of Wiccans because I’m not one, but to be fair, of those I know, I have never once heard them refer to themselves as witches…I only hear other people call them witches.

I also believe that they do believe in a higher power, they just happen to believe that the world around us is that higher power…that’s why my friend told me anyway.

Mate, didn’t say they actively worship him. I said that they follow him, whether they acknowledge it or not.

If the power comes from the devil, then how can they be worshiping God when one of the central facets of their faith comes from His opposite?

Edit: should also add: the devil doesn’t give a damn if you worship him or not, all he cares about is that you don’t worship God.

 

[HauntedJame]

Or a White Nationalist.

Depends…some of the White Nationalists I have run across in my life refer to themselves as Christian. But then again, there has only been three in my lifetime so far!

I have known Christian goths though! Rather like goths, they’re some of the funniest people I have ever known (wicked sense of humor!)

 

[JDZwiers19]

The practices of Wicca would not necessarily point to Satanism if it were not for the dangerously ambiguous nature of their golden rule. Any philosophy that promotes that kind of moral relativism is from Satan.

I DO NOT believe wiccans are Satanists, but I was just pointing out how the similarities can be frightening to some people who don’t know any better. That being said I think it is a very dangerous cult for people to become involved in and I point that out whenever the opportunity presents itself. I have a brother who “follows the path of the Wiccan” so it is somewhat personal to me.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Depends…some of the White Nationalists I have run across in my life refer to themselves as Christian. But then again, there has only been three in my lifetime so far!

I have known Christian goths though! Rather like goths, they’re some of the funniest people I have ever known (wicked sense of humor!)

Much like the topic at hand. Merely declaring yourself something does not make it so.

Racial Nationalism is impossible to reconcile with Christianity.

However yes, you’re right, there are Christian Goths.