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cyberwolf001
Guest
An yet there numbers of Priests and Religious keep on going down.
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kenofken
Guest
"There are certainly magical elements to many religions–indeed, some would say that Christian practices of petitionary prayer are often magical, and I for one don’t necessarily see this as a bad thing. But most of the “major” religions have some kind of teaching about submitting one’s will to God, or detaching oneself from selfish desire, or something of that sort. It is the perception of many Christians that Wicca does not have anything like this. I myself am not sure if that’s a fair description or not, but I’d like to be better informed."
One of the charges some Christian critics like to heap upon pagans is that we only seek to wield power toward our own selfish libertine ends. Many like to dismiss our Rede/code of ethics as meaning “do whatever the hell you feel like.” Neither is remotely true. While we don’t “submit to God” in the Christian sense, our understanding of the divine and creation is rooted in the idea of interconnectedness and service to something much larger than oneself. In other words all of life and creation is linked at many levels, so that acting in purely selfish ways that ignore our effect on the whole is not only selfish, it is self-defeating. The idea of the “threefold law of return” borrows heavily from Hindu ideas about Karma, but really it is rooted in this idea of interconnectedness. In addition, our religion imbues us with a very heavy sense of responsibility for what we do. We have no confession or savior to “take away our sins.” There are no do-overs for us. We bear the responsibility for all that we do, in this and subsequent lifetimes. I think you would agree that’s good incentive to be mindful of our actions. Of course that doesn’t make us perfectly moral people. We have people who have an adolescent understanding of freedom and people who cynically use our ethics and sense of freedom to their own manipulative ends. So does every other faith of course. Paganism is a wide umbrella too. Not all of us are Wiccans, not all adhere to the Rede. Some pagans are openly nihilisitic. Some, such as those in the Nordic traditions, have more detailed rules spelling out their obligations to the gods and kin.
The term “witchcraft” is separate yet interwined with Wicca and paganism. The distinction I draw is that witchcraft refers more to the practice of a natural science of sorts - what we call magick, to draw on natural power for specific ends. That can happen in conjunction with devotional religious practice, as it often does in Wicca, or it can be done independently of religious belief.
Most Wiccans can be considered witches, though some spur the term. On the other hand, many many witches are not Wiccan or even necessarily pagan in the neo-pagan sense of the term. There are witches in Afro-Carribean traditions, Baltic and Eastern European traditions, even Christian witches. Most of the witches/cunning folk in England from the dark ages until quite recent times were at least partially Christian in their beliefs. They frequently employed bible verses and concepts in their spell work. Witchcraft also has negative associations for good reason in some areas. In Africa, it’s frequently employed as a means of extortion. On the other hand, many fundamentalists Christians there have employed witch hunts which have led to the torture and killing of innocent women and children.
One of the charges some Christian critics like to heap upon pagans is that we only seek to wield power toward our own selfish libertine ends. Many like to dismiss our Rede/code of ethics as meaning “do whatever the hell you feel like.” Neither is remotely true. While we don’t “submit to God” in the Christian sense, our understanding of the divine and creation is rooted in the idea of interconnectedness and service to something much larger than oneself. In other words all of life and creation is linked at many levels, so that acting in purely selfish ways that ignore our effect on the whole is not only selfish, it is self-defeating. The idea of the “threefold law of return” borrows heavily from Hindu ideas about Karma, but really it is rooted in this idea of interconnectedness. In addition, our religion imbues us with a very heavy sense of responsibility for what we do. We have no confession or savior to “take away our sins.” There are no do-overs for us. We bear the responsibility for all that we do, in this and subsequent lifetimes. I think you would agree that’s good incentive to be mindful of our actions. Of course that doesn’t make us perfectly moral people. We have people who have an adolescent understanding of freedom and people who cynically use our ethics and sense of freedom to their own manipulative ends. So does every other faith of course. Paganism is a wide umbrella too. Not all of us are Wiccans, not all adhere to the Rede. Some pagans are openly nihilisitic. Some, such as those in the Nordic traditions, have more detailed rules spelling out their obligations to the gods and kin.
The term “witchcraft” is separate yet interwined with Wicca and paganism. The distinction I draw is that witchcraft refers more to the practice of a natural science of sorts - what we call magick, to draw on natural power for specific ends. That can happen in conjunction with devotional religious practice, as it often does in Wicca, or it can be done independently of religious belief.
Most Wiccans can be considered witches, though some spur the term. On the other hand, many many witches are not Wiccan or even necessarily pagan in the neo-pagan sense of the term. There are witches in Afro-Carribean traditions, Baltic and Eastern European traditions, even Christian witches. Most of the witches/cunning folk in England from the dark ages until quite recent times were at least partially Christian in their beliefs. They frequently employed bible verses and concepts in their spell work. Witchcraft also has negative associations for good reason in some areas. In Africa, it’s frequently employed as a means of extortion. On the other hand, many fundamentalists Christians there have employed witch hunts which have led to the torture and killing of innocent women and children.
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Confused_in_Fla
Guest
One of my dearest friends has taken a long standing interest in Wicca and she is in no way a devil worshipper. She loves being outdoors, watching birds and animals that come into her yard. Outdoors is where she finds her peace. It’s not a bad, evil, scary “religion” at all…too bad it has been stigmatized as such. I have read some truly beautiful and thoughtful Wiccan words that my friend has sent to me when I’ve been going through tough times.
God created nature, so how can finding peace in it, His biggest church, be an evil thing?
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Sounds like your friend watched “The Wicker Man” one too many times!
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kenofken
Guest
Cause Jesus hates hippies!
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gurneyhalleck1
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benidict
Guest
satanist are pretty much loners, and wiccans have some great gardening techniques. neither are trying to take over the world like islam. so neither of these groups bother me, and i actually have friends that are wiccan. no problemo here. Peace and prayers for you.
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benidict
Guest
i love the episode on southpark, when cartman goes into the center of them with the slayer tape! that was awesome! lol! i dont like them much either. Peace maaan!Cause Jesus hates hippies!
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mangy_dog
Guest
Satanism, Wicca, its all of the devil.
There is no such thing as a good witch or white magic or good spells and amulets and the control of elements etc etc. It is of the devil.
It is of evil influence to try and give these occult practices the same appearance as a genuine religion especially Judaism, Christianity or Islam.
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seeker57
Guest
Wicca is of the devil? Genuine religion? My, we are judgmental aren’t we.
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Tyuiop411
Guest
Well in his defense it doesn’t take much to see through Wicca.
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benidict
Guest
you are correct in saying there is no such thing as white magic or black magic. it is all the same. the satanist and wiccans call on the same demons. the difference is that the satanist embraces these forces, the wiccan fears them.(anton laveys teaching, not mine.) however in their defense, i think satanist and wiccans have killed far less people than all three of the monotheistic faiths combined. good, bad indifferent, it is what it is. peace
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benidict
Guest
hes entitled to his opinion, as you are to yours. you are judgmental for calling him judgmental.and i am judgmental for calling you judgmental. i like to wear black, you may have a different color you prefer. i like ford, you may like chevy. whats wrong with making judgments? i know, lets all have the same opinion, and nobody deviate… oh yes, the former soviet union tried that, as well as china, vietnam, north korea, and to a certain extent the pilgrims. it never works. have nice day
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seeker57
Guest
Then, to carry on with this logic, Wiccan beliefs are as valid as Christian beliefs because, in the judgement of the believer, each is valid.hes entitled to his opinion, as you are to yours. you are judgmental for calling him judgmental.and i am judgmental for calling you judgmental. i like to wear black, you may have a different color you prefer. i like ford, you may like chevy. whats wrong with making judgments? i know, lets all have the same opinion, and nobody deviate… oh yes, the former soviet union tried that, as well as china, vietnam, north korea, and to a certain extent the pilgrims. it never works. have nice day
I would agree with that.
Have a happy day.
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benidict
Guest
i certainly have no problem with them believing as they do. as i stated earlier, they do have some great gardening techniques. and im sure for them, their belief system is just as valid. however. i have come to the conclusion in my own mind, that they are not. based on that JUDGEMENTThen, to carry on with this logic, Wiccan beliefs are as valid as Christian beliefs because, in the judgement of the believer, each is valid.
I would agree with that.
Have a happy day.
i myself have come to a different conclusion. as have you. lol! see… judgementalism is not such a bad thing. is it? you are happy, and i am happy. due to our respective JUDGEMENTS. Peace to you and yours oh yes, i also include the zohar in my studies. have you ever had the chance to check this out? its the book of Jewish enlightenment. kabbalah if you will. its actually 10 volumes. lifetime of study involved. so the parts of wicca that incorporate this aspect, i would have no problem with. every religion has a part of the truth. the ancient egyptians even knew, that a virgin would conceive and give birth to the “lion” look at the sphinx. it is a combination of virgo “virgin” and leo “lion” Mary gave birth to Jesus, the Lion of Judah. nifty eh? Peace
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At_Trent
Guest
A satanist can’t claim to believe Satan exists without believing God exists.
What throws me off on wiccans is how they believe in Maiden/Mother/Crone, but reject the Holy Trinity. Wiccans also believe in amulets and talismans, but reject Catholic medals and sacramentals.
Wicca is fantasy driven. Catholicism is faith driven. Be careful HauntedJame;6927032, the paganism that is wicca has no foundation built on revealed truth.
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kenofken
Guest
To atheists and other strictly rational people faith and fantasy are the same. Our foundation is most certainly based on revealed truth, just not in the same sense as yours. Our truth is revealed to each of us every minute of every day. We have direct contact with our deities in ritual. Judeo-Christian revealed truth, in contrast, is limited to a very select few, mostly long-dead men and then filtered, massaged and edited through many layers of heirarchy, all of whom have financial and personal agendas.
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cyberwolf001
Guest
If you mean the atheist ones they only took the name Satan to anger Christians. There basic philosophy is “Let’s see how many religions we can anger.”
Actually many don’t, it’s just the one true faith part that is rejected.
How is Paganism fantasy driven and not Faith driven?
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benidict
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satanist do not believe in satan as real being. the only god or devil that exist is found in their mirror. true satanism is the best expression of atheism that exist. and they get to celebrate holidays. i would suggest to get a good grasp of what real satanism is, you read anton la veys books. while i do not agree with his methods, his grasp on human nature is pure genius. i would also suggest every young man read the complete satanic witch before he starts dating. la vey fully understood the female nature, and how they manipulate men. excellent book. it also earned the good housekeeping seal of approval. Peace
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benidict
Guest
hi cyberwolf. am i correct in assuming that much of wicca is based off of old folklore? that many of their cures were taken from herbal remedies and the like. including the “love” potions? one thing i found is how they suggest you collect your “spell” components just before sunrise, when every thing is most alive. i think this would work great for fruits and veggies too. i woke up one morning in a pine forest in upstate new york just before sunrise one morning, and wow! the scent of pine was amazing. its like the world was brand new! i think the herbal aspect of wiccan could almost be viewed a scientific and pharmacutical in some ways. what do ya think
Peace - Status