Why the Wiccans?

[At_Trent]

To atheists and other strictly rational people faith and fantasy are the same. Our foundation is most certainly based on revealed truth, just not in the same sense as yours. Our truth is revealed to each of us every minute of every day. We have direct contact with our deities in ritual. Judeo-Christian revealed truth, in contrast, is limited to a very select few, mostly long-dead men and then filtered, massaged and edited through many layers of heirarchy, all of whom have financial and personal agendas.

Hi,
Rationalism is condemned by the Church. Jesus Christ was witnessed performing miracles and teaching. He died and was resurrected and taken into Heaven by the omnipotent source of all, God. Jesus ordained his Apostles in order to build His Church, and instructed them to convert and ordain. Only those we call Doctors of the Church, Saints, and others in the Hierarchy you mentioned, are where we as Christians need to look, and listen for, guidance in knowing the Truth. I would never read a bible passage and think “hmm, That doesn’t make sense. The way I read it isn’t the same interpretation as the Church” I can’t question it, I can only assume I simply don’t understand it and the Church does. To ponder it is to introduce rational thought, which, as a Catholic I can’t do without rejecting my religion founded by God Himself.

Now, I left the Church as a teen. Never rejected it, just quit practicing the Faith. Party time. Over 25 years just not giving any sort of religion a second thought. Then, for 8 years or so I slowly started getting spiritual. I used to like bass fishing at night, and at times, I’d just sit on the bank of a pond and listen to what I styled as Nature’s Symphony. The insects of the night, frogs, the splash of water as a largemouth bass went after a meal in the shallow water near the bank. And the moon. Since childhood, I’ve always caught myself drawn to the beauty of the moon in all it’s visible phases.

During that time, I bought my fist pc and began surfing the net. I can’t remember what term I searched, but it was Lycos, before google got going. “Nature based spirituality” or a similar term. Anyhow, I found WitchVox and began reading and seeking info. Wicca appealed to me. I built a small library of books including Drawing Down The Moon and The Spiral Dance. You may have heard of and listen to Blackmores Night. I have a few of their CD’s.

My thirst for knowledge sent me looking further. I never practiced the Craft, just kept searching through ancient texts online to find a path. Ceremonial Magick fascinated me, and I read Modern Magick. Still, never practiced it. Kept looking. Finally, I thought I found the right path. The Hebrews got it right I concluded. My search and opinions concerning the various pagan paths satisfied, I had to look also at Christianity. It kept popping up.

I was relying heavily on this site in my search for something
sacred-texts.com/

Gen 1:14-15 [14] And God said: Let there be lights made in the firmament of heaven, to divide the day and the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years: [15] To shine in the firmament of heaven, and to give light upon the earth. And it was so done.

I still gaze at a full moon, but it only an object placed there by God, as has been revealed. And the Hebrews were right. That’s why I chose to remain a Christian.

Look at this world we live in. If you believe there is evil in it, then it is understandable those who say few will be saved believe so. The prince of this world has a death grip on so many souls that don’t know it, many that don’t care, and many that are his minions.

I know pagans reject dogma and hierarchy, but there are rules/guidelines and hierarchy in a coven.

Your call,

Pax

 

[At_Trent]

If you mean the atheist ones they only took the name Satan to anger Christians. There basic philosophy is “Let’s see how many religions we can anger.”

Actually many don’t, it’s just the one true faith part that is rejected.

How is Paganism fantasy driven and not Faith driven?

No, I just mean a satanist can’t believe in Satan and not believe in God as well.

There is only one true God, and He has revealed what he wills we know. If we reject the one path idea, we say, “fine, your as god is ok as my gods”. There are so many gods in paganism, that gods mean nothing. There is no Truth, only a collection of false truths. The word by it’s nature means one.

Paganism is fantasy driven in that it is an attraction to the ancient and arcane ways and religions based on folklore and superstition. The neo - paganism of today trys to recreate it, and thus so many man made paths. And it’s dangerous. Why draw a circle if there is nothing to fear due to what you intend to do inside it ?

 

[cyberwolf001]

There is only one true God, and He has revealed what he wills we know. If we reject the one path idea, we say, “fine, your as god is ok as my gods”. There are so many gods in paganism, that gods mean nothing. There is no Truth, only a collection of false truths. The word by it’s nature means one.

Not so just because there are many doesn’t mean there is no truth.

Paganism is fantasy driven in that it is an attraction to the ancient and arcane ways and religions based on folklore and superstition. The neo - paganism of today trys to recreate it, and thus so many man made paths. And it’s dangerous. Why draw a circle if there is nothing to fear due to what you intend to do inside it ?

Well the ADF doesn’t use circles as for other groups they acknowledge not all spirits are friendly and some are drawn to a ritual. However the circles first and most important job is to act as a focus for the ‘energy’ to be stored before it is released.

 

[At_Trent]

Not so just because there are many doesn’t mean there is no truth.

Well the ADF doesn’t use circles as for other groups they acknowledge not all spirits are friendly and some are drawn to a ritual. However the circles first and most important job is to act as a focus for the ‘energy’ to be stored before it is released.

Why do you believe they are drawn to it ?

 

[kenofken]

Why do you believe they are drawn to it ?

I wouldn’t say any particular entities are drawn to a magickal circle in particular. What’s happening is that you’re opening and entering a space which is quite literally at the intersetion of our own mudane world and that of the gods and spirit world. Really, we don’t even need a circle to contact our deities as they are immanent in nature and creation, but it helps us to “tune out” our day to day reality a bit to focus on our work with them, and, as Cyberwolf accurately points out, to contain the energy we raise until it is ready for release.

So, since our circle helps bring us closer to the spirit world and brings it into focus for us, it’s only natural to expect that action also brings US into closer focus for the folks on the other side of the veil, so to speak. There are curious passers-by on that plane just as there are here. Most are not malevolent, or even particularly interested in what’s going on. I’ve actually had very few instances over the years when any such entities attempted to come to a circle uninvited. The few that did were uniformly friendly, mostly believed to be one of our ancestors. Not so different, really from a Christian church if you left the doors open 24 hours a day. You’d get a share of earnest worshippers, a few curious drifters and the occaisional psychotic wandering in.

And for the record, we don’t worship the moon, or nature, anymore than you worship the wood of the cross. The moon for us is a reflection of the nature of the feminine divine and the cycles of life, death and rebirth. We have, many, many others, including the altar tools we use. We don’t worship them either.

 

[cyberwolf001]

hi cyberwolf.

Hiya Benidict.

Am i correct in assuming that much of wicca is based off of old folklore? that many of their cures were taken from herbal remedies and the like. including the “love” potions? one thing i found is how they suggest you collect your “spell” components just before sunrise, when every thing is most alive. i think this would work great for fruits and veggies too. i woke up one morning in a pine forest in upstate new york just before sunrise one morning, and wow! the scent of pine was amazing. its like the world was brand new! i think the herbal aspect of wiccan could almost be viewed a scientific and pharmacutical in some ways. what do ya think Peace

There might be some truth to this, it seems people are finally waking up to the fact our Pagan ancestors where not all that dumb and that yes some of the best ones did NOT become Christians in all but name.

Hi,
Rationalism is condemned by the Church.

Hey! Where can I find the part where rationalism was condemned?

Jesus Christ was witnessed performing miracles and teaching. He died and was resurrected and taken into Heaven by the omnipotent source of all, God.

We’ve heard this before.

Jesus ordained his Apostles in order to build His Church, and instructed them to convert and ordain. Only those we call Doctors of the Church, Saints, and others in the Hierarchy you mentioned, are where we as Christians need to look, and listen for, guidance in knowing the Truth. I would never read a bible passage and think “hmm, That doesn’t make sense. The way I read it isn’t the same interpretation as the Church” I can’t question it, I can only assume I simply don’t understand it and the Church does. To ponder it is to introduce rational thought, which, as a Catholic I can’t do without rejecting my religion founded by God Himself.

As a convert that left and returned to Paganism I’ve heard this as well. The anti-rationalism however is new. I was taught just the opposite, that Catholicism could be understood just like 2+2=4. To say otherwise was Heresy.

During that time, I bought my fist pc and began surfing the net. I can’t remember what term I searched, but it was Lycos, before google got going. “Nature based spirituality” or a similar term. Anyhow, I found WitchVox and began reading and seeking info. Wicca appealed to me. I built a small library of books including Drawing Down The Moon and The Spiral Dance. You may have heard of and listen to Blackmores Night. I have a few of their CD’s.

WitchVox is a wonderful boon to our community. Never heard Blackmores Night before will have to look into them.

My thirst for knowledge sent me looking further. I never practiced the Craft, just kept searching through ancient texts online to find a path. Ceremonial Magick fascinated me, and I read Modern Magick. Still, never practiced it. Kept looking. Finally, I thought I found the right path. The Hebrews got it right I concluded. My search and opinions concerning the various pagan paths satisfied, I had to look also at Christianity. It kept popping up.

So your Paganism was really just an idle hobby and not a faith then if you never practiced what you read. I’d have to say if you never practiced you where never anything more than a coffee house Pagan.

Why do you believe they are drawn to it ?

Your a spirit wondering about the Astral plane, all of a sudden BAM there is a lot of sound, light and such coming from a nearby location. Wouldn’t you wanna see what was up?

And for the record, we don’t worship the moon, or nature, anymore than you worship the wood of the cross. The moon for us is a reflection of the nature of the feminine divine and the cycles of life, death and rebirth. We have, many, many others, including the altar tools we use. We don’t worship them either.

Here I must disagree to an extent there exist amongst Neo-Pagans animists who indeed worship the moon and the spirits of trees, the moon, rivers ect. In a very real sense and not as mere reflections of anything.

 

[At_Trent]

Hey! Where can I find the part where rationalism was condemned?

papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm

WitchVox is a wonderful boon to our community. Never heard Blackmores Night before will have to look into them.

You can find them on youtube. I’m a musician and dig them
youtube.com/watch?v=x0GJjv9SdF8&feature=related

So your Paganism was really just an idle hobby and not a faith then if you never practiced what you read. I’d have to say if you never practiced you where never anything more than a coffee house Pagan.

lol, no I never made it to even the fluffy bunny stage. As I said, I was drawn to it, in that it fascinated me. It was all reading and research. I was looking for a path that jumped out. I always liked movies with castles and knights, and the like since childhood. I finally realized, it was a fantasy-like attraction. And as I mentioned, once I started looking into the Golden Dawn sort of stuff, the Hebrew mysticism really stood out. But, that also lead me to the Hebrew prophets. I finally found my path in the pages of the bible, and realized the Sacraments, sacarmentals, and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass was all I needed. Daily devotions and prayer are all the ritual I need. The Truth was there, all I had to do was embrace it.

Your a spirit wondering about the Astral plane, all of a sudden BAM there is a lot of sound, light and such coming from a nearby location. Wouldn’t you wanna see what was up?.

Here I must disagree to an extent there exist amongst Neo-Pagans animists who indeed worship the moon and the spirits of trees, the moon, rivers ect. In a very real sense and not as mere reflections of anything.

But don’t you think it makes sense all this energy and life is from a single source ?

 

[At_Trent]

I wouldn’t say any particular entities are drawn to a magickal circle in particular. What’s happening is that you’re opening and entering a space which is quite literally at the intersetion of our own mudane world and that of the gods and spirit world. Really, we don’t even need a circle to contact our deities as they are immanent in nature and creation, but it helps us to “tune out” our day to day reality a bit to focus on our work with them, and, as Cyberwolf accurately points out, to contain the energy we raise until it is ready for release.

So, since our circle helps bring us closer to the spirit world and brings it into focus for us, it’s only natural to expect that action also brings US into closer focus for the folks on the other side of the veil, so to speak. There are curious passers-by on that plane just as there are here. Most are not malevolent, or even particularly interested in what’s going on. I’ve actually had very few instances over the years when any such entities attempted to come to a circle uninvited. The few that did were uniformly friendly, mostly believed to be one of our ancestors. Not so different, really from a Christian church if you left the doors open 24 hours a day. You’d get a share of earnest worshippers, a few curious drifters and the occaisional psychotic wandering in.

And for the record, we don’t worship the moon, or nature, anymore than you worship the wood of the cross. The moon for us is a reflection of the nature of the feminine divine and the cycles of life, death and rebirth. We have, many, many others, including the altar tools we use. We don’t worship them either.

Yes, I understand the mindset. I just can’t reconcile with the fact that all pagan religions are man made, and I think trying to manipulate energy is very dangerous. I see banishing rituals as a red flag.

We’ll just have to disagree.

 

[kenofken]

Yes, I understand the mindset. I just can’t reconcile with the fact that all pagan religions are man made, and I think trying to manipulate energy is very dangerous. I see banishing rituals as a red flag.

We’ll just have to disagree.

True enough, but then ALL religions are manmade. Even the big three Abrahamic faiths. Even if you take the claims of Christianity at face value, they are still attempts by humans to approach the infinite and unknowable. None have been undisputably personally set down by a deity and then followed to the exact undeviating letter since Day One. Christianity in all its myriad forms is something which overwhelmingly is the product of millions of human beings over millennia, almost none of whom ever met Christ or anyone connected with him.

 

[cyberwolf001]

papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm

You can find them on youtube. I’m a musician and dig them
youtube.com/watch?v=x0GJjv9SdF8&feature=related

Thanks will look into these.

lol, no I never made it to even the fluffy bunny stage. As I said, I was drawn to it, in that it fascinated me. It was all reading and research. I was looking for a path that jumped out. I always liked movies with castles and knights, and the like since childhood. I finally realized, it was a fantasy-like attraction. And as I mentioned, once I started looking into the Golden Dawn sort of stuff, the Hebrew mysticism really stood out. But, that also lead me to the Hebrew prophets. I finally found my path in the pages of the bible, and realized the Sacraments, sacarmentals, and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass was all I needed. Daily devotions and prayer are all the ritual I need. The Truth was there, all I had to do was embrace it.

There is a good reason why Paganism seems to have so much in common with fantasy actually. Most fantasy works: written, in film, song and video game format all draw from Paganism for inspiration.

But don’t you think it makes sense all this energy and life is from a single source ?

No.