Why Truman Dropped the Bomb

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The sixtieth anniversary of Hiroshima seems to be shaping up as a subdued affair–though not for any lack of significance. A survey of news editors in 1999 ranked the dropping of the atomic bomb on August 6, 1945, first among the top one hundred stories of the twentieth century. And any thoughtful list of controversies in American history would place it near the top again. It was not always so. In 1945, an overwhelming majority of Americans regarded as a matter of course that the United States had used atomic bombs to end the Pacific war. They further believed that those bombs had actually ended the war and saved countless lives. This set of beliefs is now sometimes labeled by academic historians the “traditionalist” view. One unkindly dubbed it the “patriotic orthodoxy.”

But in the 1960s, what were previously modest and scattered challenges of the decision to use the bombs began to crystallize into a rival canon. The challengers were branded “revisionists,” but this is inapt. Any historian who gains possession of significant new evidence has a duty to revise his appreciation of the relevant events. These challengers are better termed critics.

The critics share three fundamental premises. The first is that Japan’s situation in 1945 was catastrophically hopeless. The second is that Japan’s leaders recognized that fact and were seeking to surrender in the summer of 1945. The third is that thanks to decoded Japanese diplomatic messages, American leaders knew that Japan was about to surrender when they unleashed needless nuclear devastation. The critics divide over what prompted the decision to drop the bombs in spite of the impending surrender, with the most provocative arguments focusing on Washington’s desire to intimidate the Kremlin. Among an important stratum of American society–and still more perhaps abroad–the critics’ interpretation displaced the traditionalist view.

These rival narratives clashed in a major battle over the exhibition of the Enola Gay, the airplane from which the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, at the Smithsonian Institution in 1995. That confrontation froze many people’s understanding of the competing views. Since then, however, a sheaf of new archival discoveries and publications has expanded our understanding of the events of August 1945. This new evidence requires serious revision of the terms of the debate. What is perhaps the most interesting feature of the new findings is that they make a case President Harry S. Truman deliberately chose not to make publicly in defense of his decision to use the bomb. When scholars began to examine the archival records in the 1960s, some intuited quite correctly that the accounts of their decision-making that Truman and members of his administration had offered in 1945 were at least incomplete. And if Truman had refused to disclose fully his thinking, these scholars reasoned, it must be because the real basis for his choices would undermine or even delegitimize his decisions. It scarcely seemed plausible to such critics–or to almost anyone else–that there could be any legitimate reason that the U.S. government would have concealed at the time, and would continue to conceal, powerful evidence that supported and explained the president’s decisions.

the rest is here:
freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1453472/posts
 
A little background (from an earlier post of mine):

February 19, 1945
  • US lands on Iwo Jima, an 8 sq. mile island
  • after 10 weeks of aerial bombardment
  • after 3 days of naval bombardment
  • island secured March 26 (final attack by Japanese: 3/25)
  • US casualties: ~24,000 out of 70,000 Marines (over 33%)
  • Japanese casualties: ~20,000 killed out of 27,000 troops
  • US intel re Japanese capabilities: extremely poor
    Did Japan surrender? No.
March 9-10, 1945
  • 300 American bombers hit Tokyo
  • 1,700 tons of bombs
  • 100,000 people killed
  • 16 square miles destroyed
  • 250,000 buildings destroyed
    Did Japan surrender? No.
April 1, 1945
  • US lands on Okinawa island
  • US naval pre-landing shelling: 3,800 tons
  • island secured after 3 months (July 2)
  • US casualties: over 72,000 out of 180,000 troops
  • US losses: 763 planes, 36 ships sunk, 368 ships damaged
  • Japanese casualties: 110,000 killed out of 130,000
  • Japanese losses: 7,800 airplanes, 16 ships
  • Civilian casualties: 130,000 out of 450,000
  • US intel re Japanese capabilities: extremely poor
    Did Japan surrender? No.
May 23, 1945
  • 520 B-29 bombers hit Tokyo
  • 4,500 tons of bombs
  • ~30 sq. miles of Tokyo destroyed
  • Commercial & railway centers destroyed
    Did Japan surrender? No.
May 25, 1945
  • 502 B-29s hit Tokyo
  • 4,000 tons of bombs
  • ~25 square miles of Tokyo destroyed
    Did Japan surrender? No.
August 6, 1945
  • 1 U.S. bomber hit Hiroshima
  • ~4 square miles of the city center destroyed
  • ~90,000 people were killed immediately
    Did Japan surrender? No.
August 9, 1945
  • 1 U.S. bomber hit Nagasaki
  • ~37,000 people killed immediately
  • Did Japan surrender?
Even after 7 incomprehensibly HORRIFIC months, elements of the Imperial Army wanted to keep fighting. An attempted palace coup almost succeeded in stopping a surrender by the Emperor, which essentially occurred on August 10th with his unexpected radio address to the nation.

The point? Even after ALL of the above, the possibility that Japan might continue the war was real and significant. The Japanese army was willing and capable of fighting to virtually the last man, as was shown at Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

Was the U.S. “bombing Japan back to the stone age”? General LeMay’s indelicate boast may be engaging, but it is not particularly useful in characterizing Japan’s war-making capabilities. Japan’s army did not need oil or planes or ships to inflict damage in a US ground war within Japan. Soldiers merely needed the will to kill or be killed. They obviously had that.

Was the U.S. Intelligence infrastructure capable of knowing Japanese intentions? Hardly. Iwo Jima and Okinawa were intel disasters. And that was concerned with the simpler realities of counting troops and equipment. Divining the intentions of the ruling clique is necessarily more difficult. Even with the benefit of hindsight, one has to acknowledge that events within the palace could easily have turned out radically different.

Did the U.S. have knowledge of a possible surrender? Even if it did, how was the U.S. to know that that bit of data was the one, true piece out a million bits of conflicting data? It couldn’t know it with any certainty. Take away Hiroshima and Nagasaki and the certainty of a surrender drops, perhaps dramatically.

The unspoken presumption of the anti-U.S. types is that the best possible outcome would have occurred IF ONLY the U.S. had taken a different course. This is fallacious for several reasons, not the least of which is it is obviously unknowable.

My larger point is that selective use of hindsight to bolster the argument that the Allies lacked foresight is faulty reasoning. Furthermore, it is off point. It is simply a secular argument trying to claim a moral point. (As if…)

I suspect that the more immediate concern within these forums should be the morality of the bombings from the POV of Catholic moral teachings.

Did Catholic moral teaching, as it stood in 1944, address the issue of the destruction of whole cities or civilian populations?

Was the U.S. bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki “indiscriminate”?

Did pre-bombing warnings to the civilian population provide sufficient moral cover for subsequent U.S. action?

Was U.S. knowledge of the consequences of atomic weapons sufficient in 1945 to characterize their morality?

Was the use of atomic weapons sufficiently different (morally) from the long-range U.S. bombing raids that preceeded them?
 
It seems a bit idealistic to expect U.S. Intelligence to know Japanese intentiosn when it is clear that the Japanese didn’t know them. :rolleyes:
 
Joe Kelley:
It seems a bit idealistic to expect U.S. Intelligence to know Japanese intentiosn when it is clear that the Japanese didn’t know them. :rolleyes:
It should also be pointed out that after Japan surrendered, occupation authorities were horrified at the condition of the country. There was a virtual panic to pour supplies into Japan to prevent a massive die-off in the winter of '45-'46 from lack of food and fuel. A delay of even a few weeks in surrendering would have condemned far more Japanese to die of hunger and cold that ever died from the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
 
So, basically you guys think that America was right to drop the bomb?

:confused:
 
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FightingFat:
So, basically you guys think that America was right to drop the bomb?

:confused:
Considering the numbers of both Japanese and Americans who would have died in the event of an invasion, and adding the civilians who would have died of hunger and cold in the winter of '45-'46, absolutely.
 
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FightingFat:
So, basically you guys think that America was right to drop the bomb?

:confused:
What have you made, allowing that Japan scaped and could conquer other countries, it´s a dilemma, for this reason I wouldn´t like a war with Iran for not having these dilemmas, but in Japan case there weren´t other possibilites.
 
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Franze:
What have you made, allowing that Japan scaped and could conquer other countries, it´s a dilemma, for this reason I wouldn´t like a war with Iran for not having these dilemmas, but in Japan case there weren´t other possibilites.
Not wanting to have a war doesn’t automatically mean the danger goes away. We were attacked by Japan. And we were attacked by terrorists.

If there is a stong liklihood that we may subject to a nuclear attack, what would you have us do? We are not the French Guards, who were obligated to receive fire before giving fire.
 
So the innocent victims of the bomb are justified because of the actions of the military? This sits comfortably with your faith?
 
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FightingFat:
So the innocent victims of the bomb are justified because of the actions of the military? This sits comfortably with your faith?
So innocent victims of enemy military action are justified in your eyes? We have a duty to allow the enemy to kill our citizens?

Jesus said if someone slaps you on one cheek, turn the other. He did NOT say if someone rapes and murders your wife, deliver to him your daughter so he can do likewise.
 
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FightingFat:
So the innocent victims of the bomb are justified because of the actions of the military? This sits comfortably with your faith?
In the case of Japan, yes. By the time the bombs were dropped, almost every civilian was training to fight an Allied invasion that would dwarf the Normandy assault. Kids as old as 3 were being taught how to fight with sticks, and of course there is the famous and well-documented training of women to repel enemy troops with bamboo stakes. There was a nationwide mobilization campaign for every Japanese citizen to fight to the last. An overwhelming majority of the Japanese population would have died fighting for the emperor. It was better to have two cities decimated by the Bomb rather than the entire civilian polulation of Japan.
 
The decision to bomb inoccent civilians and murder hundreds of thousands of them was immoral.

All those who made the decision and carried it out are in Hell.

It is never just to murder civilians who were the primary target.
 
Warfare against civilians is terrorism. It’s really that simple. All serious Catholics must oppose nuclear warfare in the same way we must oppose abortion, euthanasia, etc. Every Pope since Pius XII has opposed the use of nuclear weapons. Pius XII himself urged leniency towards the Japanese in the closing days of the war. The U.S.'s insistence on unconditional surrender prolonged the war.
 
I can see the reasons behind the first bomb. I may not agree, but I could put up a spirited justification for it.

I can’t see how dropping a second bomb three days later - also on a highly populated area - can be justified though.

Mike
 
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malcolm_davies:
The decision to bomb inoccent civilians and murder hundreds of thousands of them was immoral.

All those who made the decision and carried it out are in Hell.

It is never just to murder civilians who were the primary target.
And it is most unjust to judge the final state of others. Only God can do that.
 
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malcolm_davies:
The decision to bomb inoccent civilians and murder hundreds of thousands of them was immoral.
Riiiiight. It would be more moral to starve millions during the winter, then sacrifice a few million more in the spring landings.
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malcolm_davies:
All those who made the decision and carried it out are in Hell.

It is never just to murder civilians who were the primary target.
Do you just fill in for God when He’s on vacation, or do you have the job permanently now?http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
The dropping of nuclear bombs on cities full of innocent men, women, and children would be called terrorism if it happened today.

It’s useless debating with Vern and Gillam. You are war mongers who do not think that the US military can do anything wrong. The fact that you easily justify the deaths of these Japanese civilians proves this. It was a horrible, preventable tragedy.

But if you’re so convinced that it’s ok to do it, then how can you reconcile your staunch support for Bush and his crew of idiots in Washington who invaded Iraq to supposedly prevent Saddam from DROPPING WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS?

Pete
 
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Pete2:
The dropping of nuclear bombs on cities full of innocent men, women, and children would be called terrorism if it happened today.
Not under the same circumstances. Remember, we were fighting an enemy who routinely massacred civilians.
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Pete2:
It’s useless debating with Vern and Gillam. You are war mongers who do not think that the US military can do anything wrong. The fact that you easily justify the deaths of these Japanese civilians proves this. It was a horrible, preventable tragedy.
When you start calling names, you’ve lost the debate.

The facts are that dropping the bombs SAVED millions. Had the war gone on for just a few more weeks, nearly half the population of Japan would have died in the winter of '45-'46. And those who died fighting against our invasion would be added to those numbers.
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Pete2:
But if you’re so convinced that it’s ok to do it, then how can you reconcile your staunch support for Bush and his crew of idiots in Washington who invaded Iraq to supposedly prevent Saddam from DROPPING WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS?
Because Saddam Hussain routinely used his weapons of mass destruction on his own people, among others. Because Saddam Hussain twice invaded his neighbors without justification. Because Saddam Hussain supported terrorists. Because Saddam Hussain was in violation of the truce.
 
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Pete2:
The dropping of nuclear bombs on cities full of innocent men, women, and children would be called terrorism if it happened today.

It’s useless debating with Vern and Gillam. You are war mongers who do not think that the US military can do anything wrong. The fact that you easily justify the deaths of these Japanese civilians proves this. It was a horrible, preventable tragedy.

But if you’re so convinced that it’s ok to do it, then how can you reconcile your staunch support for Bush and his crew of idiots in Washington who invaded Iraq to supposedly prevent Saddam from DROPPING WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION ON INNOCENT CIVILIANS?

Pete
**I would like to remind you that name calling is a direct violation of forum rules. **

**In time of war (as in WWII) the only “innocent” civilians are children who are too young to work. Anyone who produces food, arms, ammunition, POL, vehicles, ships, etc., etc., etc., is part of the war effort and is subject to attack. I suppose you would have no trouble justifying, though, what Sherman did to the south when he came through. Did you get your views on WWII in a liberal university or did you have relatives who fought in it and were lucky enough to survive and tell you about it? **
 
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Pete2:
It’s useless debating with Vern and Gillam. You are war mongers who do not think that the US military can do anything wrong.
What am I? Chopped liver?
 
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