Why Truman Dropped the Bomb

[qmvsimp]

lewis strauss, special assistant to the secretary of the navy:

A couple of issues here:

Memory. The farther away from an event, the worse someone’s memory is. Two examples: the witnesses from the grassy knoll to JFK’s assassination gave a different account to the Warren Commission than they did to the media immediately after the shooting. Ms. Sheehan, the lady at Bush’s ranch, has changed her recollection from right after her meeting with the President, to a year later.

None of these people are lying or being purposely misleading in my opinion. Two things happen over time: our recollection becomes less clear and what has happened since subconsciously colors our memory.

The aftermath of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were horrible, particularly the radiation effects, which we had virtually no clue about. Many people tried to distance themselves from the decision after they saw the carnage. Most on a subconscious level.

When I would get into an accident, my mother would tell me she knew it was going to happen and/or that she had warned me. Her recollection was of a vigorous warning, while mine was of just a passing “be careful.” I’m sure similar things with your family have happened to you. This is normal.

The earliest memoirs we have are Stimsons from 1947. He claims a commission was formed and gave a unanimous recommendation to use the bomb.

 

[qmvsimp]

oat soda:

qmvsimp,

easy with the copy and paste. can you find any catholic theologians or popes who agree with your opinion? there is plenty of evidence if not proof that they don’t.

this is a morality issue, which the church ultimately decides, not historians.

Note how I copy and pasted both sides of the issue.

The Church ultimately decides morality issues, but this issue has not been definitively decided. Just like Capital Punishment.

Most theologians are basing the morality of the decision on the horrible aftermath. I’m sure if I saw first hand, I’d be against it to, but that would be an emotional decision. In hindsight, the action was probably wrong. This is where I agree with them. But the action was moral given what we knew at the time.

Invading Iraq because of WMDs, we now know, was wrong. But based on the information we had before the invasion, it was the right thing to do. (Ignoring the other reasons for going to war).

I think that is the difference here. It reminds me of the criticism of Pope Pius and his actions during WWII. Very easy to say after the fact, that he should have done more. But Pius did not have the benefit of hindsight all of us have 60 years later.

 

[Al_Masetti]

qmvsimp:

Note how I copy and pasted both sides of the issue.

The Church ultimately decides morality issues, but this issue has not been definitively decided. Just like Capital Punishment.

Most theologians are basing the morality of the decision on the horrible aftermath. I’m sure if I saw first hand, I’d be against it to, but that would be an emotional decision. In hindsight, the action was probably wrong. This is where I agree with them. But the action was moral given what we knew at the time.

Invading Iraq because of WMDs, we now know, was wrong. But based on the information we had before the invasion, it was the right thing to do. (Ignoring the other reasons for going to war).

I think that is the difference here. It reminds me of the criticism of Pope Pius and his actions during WWII. Very easy to say after the fact, that he should have done more. But Pius did not have the benefit of hindsight all of us have 60 years later.

Moral Theology can be a difficult subject because a lot of it is based on the motivations of the participants.

With respect to Pope Pius XII and “the benefit of highsight”, I refer you to an Israeli historian, Pincus Lapide, who wrote a book “Three Popes and the Jews”. I STRONGLY recommend people read the book. In addition, the Catholic League (look up their Web site), offers some books and other information about Pius XII’s work to rescue Jews. There was no hindsight needed; the suggestions or inuendos that he need the benefit of hindsight to save Jews is false because he DID rescue nearly a million Jews. Keep in mind also that in Italy very few Jews were rounded up – and those relatively few were taken after the Germans became dissatisfied with the Italians.

With respect to the wrongness of WMD’s and the Iraq war, I submit that such a discussion is off topic and should be the subject of another thread. Keep in mind that every nation and the United Nations accused Iraq of having WMD’s, that there were satellite photographs of highly suspicious activity at suspected WMD storage bunkers, there were streams of trucks entering Syria with suspected WMD cargoes, and even later on we found an entire squadron (18) of MiG 25 fighters (very large airplanes) that had been completely buried and hidden. We only found them when a sand storm uncovered the top tips of the rudders of the planes. You can do an internet search and find the photographs of the buried planes. So what else is still buried out there???

 

[grotto]

Yes.

 

[PiusXIII]

malcolm_davies:

The decision to bomb inoccent civilians and murder hundreds of thousands of them was immoral.

All those who made the decision and carried it out are in Hell.

It is never just to murder civilians who were the primary target.

So the church teaches that Truman is in Hell? I remember reading that the church teaches that Woodrow Wilson is in Hell but I never heard that about Truman before.

 

[qmvsimp]

PiusXIII:

So the church teaches that Truman is in Hell? I remember reading that the church teaches that Woodrow Wilson is in Hell but I never heard that about Truman before.

Unless anyone can show me, I understand that the Church has never definitively stated that any human is in hell. The basis being that no one can know someone’s heart just prior to death.

When someone is proclaimed a Saint, the Church is definitively stating that they are in heaven, and thus, can be petitioned for their intercession.

On another note, do you think it’s appropriate to take the name PiusXIII?

 

[Joe_Kelley]

qmvsimp:

. . .
On another note, do you think it’s appropriate to take the name PiusXIII?

Especially appropriate if he claims the ability to make infallible statements.

 

[PiusXIII]

qmvsimp:

On another note, do you think it’s appropriate to take the name PiusXIII?

For about the 30th time on these boards, I chose the name Pius XIII in the days right before the conclave because I was hoping that the new pope would take that name because I admired Pius XII. I didn’t know about the anti-pope by that name until months later.

Do you think it’s appropriate to make negative inferences on my reasons for choosing that name only a paragraph after you state that we can’t judge what’s in someone else’s heart?

 

[qmvsimp]

PiusXIII:

For about the 30th time on these boards, I chose the name Pius XIII in the days right before the conclave because I was hoping that the new pope would take that name because I admired Pius XII. I didn’t know about the anti-pope by that name until months later.

Do you think it’s appropriate to make negative inferences on my reasons for choosing that name only a paragraph after you state that we can’t judge what’s in someone else’s heart?

I’m sorry. I really didn’t mean to judge you or for my question to come across as a “negative inference.” You might be a little sensitive given that so many have questioned you about it.

I accept your innocent reason for choosing PiusXIII. But I would recommend you change it. This is an orthodox Catholic forum and I, and I suspect the majority on this forum, get a first impression of either associating yourself with the anti-pope or equating yourself with the previous twelve Pius’.

 

[wabrams]

I hoped everyone on this thread that was against the US dropping the bomb watched *X Day *on the History Channel. It would have been a real eye opener for you.

 

[Al_Masetti]

wabrams:

I hoped everyone on this thread that was against the US dropping the bomb watched *X Day *on the History Channel. It would have been a real eye opener for you.

I didn’t know about it and missed it. Do you know if it will be repeated? Can you provide a summary?