Why two judgments?

[Sir_Knight]

I’ve been thinking again

The gospel reading today clearly shows that there will be a final judgment. There are also other passages in scripture which clearly support Catholic teaching that we will also face a judgment immediately upon our death.

After thinking about this, I got to wondering why will there be two judgments?

Is there a chance that God will judge us differently at the final judgment than on the first? This seems highly unlikely. So at the second judgment, won’t we already know how we will be judged based on what happened at the first judgment?

And, if that be the case, then what is the point of that second judgment?

 

[Verbum]

Hi sir,

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church :

678 Following in the steps of the prophets and John the Baptist, Jesus announced the judgment of the Last Day in his preaching.582 Then will the conduct of each one and the secrets of hearts be brought to light.583 Then will the culpable unbelief that counted the offer of God’s grace as nothing be condemned.584 Our attitude to our neighbor will disclose acceptance or refusal of grace and divine love.585 On the Last Day Jesus will say: "Truly I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me."586

This judgment will be before the whole world.

Verbum

 

[bilop]

And, if that be the case, then what is the point of that second judgment?

As Verbum says, the first judgement is “private” the second “public”, at the second, final judgement, all will know who was saved and who was damned.

Also, we will be reunited with our ressurected bodies.

God Bless

 

[Dark_Warrior]

As Verbum says, the first judgement is “private” the second “public”, at the second, final judgement, all will know who was saved and who was damned.

Also, we will be reunited with our ressurected bodies.

God Bless

What about those who die in a state of grace? What is to be judged by them if they’re perfected by the blood of Christ in sanctification?

 

[Man]

I’ve been thinking again

The gospel reading today clearly shows that there will be a final judgment. There are also other passages in scripture which clearly support Catholic teaching that we will also face a judgment immediately upon our death.

After thinking about this, I got to wondering why will there be two judgments?

Is there a chance that God will judge us differently at the final judgment than on the first? This seems highly unlikely. So at the second judgment, won’t we already know how we will be judged based on what happened at the first judgment?

And, if that be the case, then what is the point of that second judgment?

The Pope just indicated that the final judgment…

“Christ identifies Himself with the ‘smallest of His brothers and sisters’, and the final judgement will be a settling of accounts of what happened in earthly life”."

 

[Sir_Knight]

Hi sir,

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church :

This judgment will be before the whole world.

Verbum

As Verbum says, the first judgement is “private” the second “public”, at the second, final judgement, all will know who was saved and who was damned.

Also, we will be reunited with our ressurected bodies.

God Bless

But the judgment would obviously be the same, so why pull everyone out of heaven and hell to re-judge them with the exact same verdict?

Also, those who found themselves in heaven would be able to tell who went to hell by the fact they they weren’t present. Ditto for those that ended up in hell.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

But the judgment would obviously be the same, so why pull everyone out of heaven and hell to re-judge them with the exact same verdict?
Also, those who found themselves in heaven would be able to tell who went to hell by the fact they they weren’t present. Ditto for those that ended up in hell.

The Final Judgment is the culmination of all of human history, it is the laying out of all history for all to see. Further, it is the moment when we all get our bodies back to be forever united.

Also St Augustine rightly points out that the good you do can have ramifications for others even after you are dead, just as the evil you do can continue to have ramifications after you are dead. Thus a Final Judgment is very necessary and plays directly in the level of glory or damnation a soul will receive.
So lets say someone wrote very anti-Catholic literature and spread it all over the world, he could repent before death and be saved, but the number of other souls he has potentially hurt or endangered will carry on even after he has died. Thus at the Final Judgment he will receive less glory. Now flip that story for someone who wrote excellent spiritual growing articles, these writings can touch lives even after the author has died and all the good these bring about increase the author’s glory.

As for “pulling out of” heaven or hell, we don’t know if that necessarily will happen. All the souls could actually remain where they are and still witness the whole thing.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Okay, I’ve thought about this some more and I have a problem with your reply. First off, our faith teaches us that Heaven & Hell exist outside of time & space because at the end of time only heaven & hell will exist. That means that the number of souls that a person impacted either negatively or positively will already be known and the first judgment would have taken that into consideration. Secondly, even if the first judgment happened within time, it just doesn’t follow that God would demote somebody in heaven based on things that happened afterwards – that would imply that God’s first judgement was incorrect.

I’m not trying to argue with anyone. I’m just looking for an answer that addresses this.

 

[NHInsider]

Just my thoughts, not doctrine

I’ve understood the personal judgment to be “saved, or damned?” while at the Final Judgment our works will be revealed and rewarded.

 

[Christian7801]

The great white throne judgment is for the damned; you will not find any true disciples of Christ at that judgment. It is one judgment you do not want to attend; AKA resurrection of the dead, where they get their eternal bodies and sent to whatever part of hell is made for them.

 

[BRB1]

Christ teaches that all converts enter into new life violently [Luke 16:16]. That implies sincere contrition, repentance, remorse, and change from secular ways. All sins before this time … will not need to be re-addressed in later judgment.

Also, all sins committed after this point in time [if later confessed and penance served] will not need to be dealt with again @ later judgment. To claim so … would put a Christian in DOUBLE JEOPARDY. What Christ has forgiven … he forgets.

Scriptures also teach converts not to Judge others, and as consequence they will not be judged. But, if we fail to heed this command … then judgment will surely be needed.

It won’t be a ‘point-by-point’ recital of every event in our lives … at least not for the believers. Believers receive rewards … not punishments.

Matt. 25:31-34 says “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separte them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. Then the King will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; …”

Sounds like a rapid sorting of all people into the saved and unsaved groups. We either get the UP thumb of right hand … or the thumbs down of left hand. Then a group sentence / verdict is pronounced.

 

[Christian7801]

Christ teaches that all converts enter into new life violently [Luke 16:16]. That implies sincere contrition, repentance, remorse, and change from secular ways. All sins before this time … will not need to be re-addressed in later judgment.

Also, all sins committed after this point in time [if later confessed and penance served] will not need to be dealt with again @ later judgment. To claim so … would put a Christian in DOUBLE JEOPARDY. What Christ has forgiven … he forgets.

Scriptures also teach converts not to Judge others, and as consequence they will not be judged. But, if we fail to heed this command … then judgment will surely be needed.

It won’t be a ‘point-by-point’ recital of every event in our lives … at least not for the believers. Believers receive rewards … not punishments.

Matt. 25:31-34 says “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separte them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. Then the King will say to those at his right hand, 'Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; …”

Sounds like a rapid sorting of all people into the saved and unsaved groups. We either get the UP thumb of right hand … or the thumbs down of left hand. Then a group sentence / verdict is pronounced.

Matt. 25:31-34 This is speaking of the judgment after the tribulation; during the tribulation people will be saved and at the end; the saved and unsaved that remained on earth during the millennial reign will be separated and the damned will be judged.

 

[BRB1]

Matt. 25:31-34 This is speaking of the judgment after the tribulation; during the tribulation people will be saved and at the end; the saved and unsaved that remained on earth during the millennial reign will be separated and the damned will be judged.

Now we have a 3rd Judgment. Does anyone really understand Revelations ?

I thought Catholics might. But they generally leave it alone … or say its already happened, or believe much is allegory.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Just my thoughts, not doctrine

I’ve understood the personal judgment to be “saved, or damned?” while at the Final Judgment our works will be revealed and rewarded.

I’ll agree with the “revealed” part but once we are judged during our personal judgement, we’ll already be receiving our reward or punishment because those that die in God’s friendship will go off to heaven where they will be rewarded and the rest will go to their eternal punishment. The rewards & punishment will begin then and there.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Matt. 25:31-34 This is speaking of the judgment after the tribulation; during the tribulation people will be saved and at the end; the saved and unsaved that remained on earth during the millennial reign will be separated and the damned will be judged.

Now we have a 3rd Judgment. Does anyone really understand Revelations ?

I thought Catholics might. But they generally leave it alone … or say its already happened, or believe much is allegory.

So that damned are going to have three judgements? Why, when the verdict is going to be the same? And why will the saved have two? Why will anyone need more than one?

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Okay, I’ve thought about this some more and I have a problem with your reply. First off, our faith teaches us that Heaven & Hell exist outside of time & space because at the end of time only heaven & hell will exist. That means that the number of souls that a person impacted either negatively or positively will already be known and the first judgment would have taken that into consideration. Secondly, even if the first judgment happened within time, it just doesn’t follow that God would demote somebody in heaven based on things that happened afterwards – that would imply that God’s first judgement was incorrect.

I’m not trying to argue with anyone. I’m just looking for an answer that addresses this.

This is actually a pretty good and well thought response.

 

[Sir_Knight]

Thank you Although it took me nearly half a year

Say … we almost have the same number of posts – my 5,321 to your 5,324 at this exact moment.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Thank you Although it took me nearly half a year

Say … we almost have the same number of posts – my 5,321 to your 5,324 at this exact moment.

Yeah, I totally forgot about this thread.

p.s. you’re trailing by 4 posts! hurry up!

 

[Christian7801]

So that damned are going to have three judgements? Why, when the verdict is going to be the same? And why will the saved have two? Why will anyone need more than one?

There won’t be more than one type judgment; I believe that the judgment at the end of the millennial reign will include the rest of the (unsaved) dead at the same time. In other words; those that are in Hades, the county jail waiting final arraignment, will be at the great white throne; the separation is symbolic of the saved and unsaved, the goats and the sheep. The saved are not facing judgment; they will be rewarded based on their fruit or deeds and after the fire has revealed which are truly fruit and which works or deeds were of other motives, then they will receive accolades from God…“well done good and faithful servant”. The damned will be judged and sent to whichever place in hell they deserve based on their deeds. Hope that makes sense.