Why use repetitions?

[From_Dust]

“But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.” (Matt 6:7)

Vain repetitions here is battologeo which means to repeat the same thing over and over. I was wondering why Priests tell their followers to repeat “hail mary’s” and such over and over.

 

[GeorgeSword]

The keyword is vain. There is nothing wrong with repeating a prayer if it doesn’t become vain. The words don’t matter. We can pray for all sorts of things with an Our Father or Hail Mary. It is what is in our heart that counts.
Prayers that aren’t repeated can become vain, too. If I ask for something over and over again, using different words every time, it becomes vain. If I say fifty Hail Mary’s with an empty heart, as though the ammount I say is going to help get me something, then it becomes vain too.

 

[StrawberryJam]

“But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.” (Matt 6:7)

Vain repetitions here is battologeo which means to repeat the same thing over and over. I was wondering why Priests tell their followers to repeat “hail mary’s” and such over and over.

First thought on reading that passage.
What heathens pray? If they pray, are they really heathens?

Second thought on reading that passage was what’s vain?

Are you only worried about what Priests reccomend to others? I’ve seen some really repetitive stuff prayed on you tube by protestant street preachers. Why do they do that?

 

[bpbasilphx]

Following your exegesis, you should not sing a hymn with a refrain, because these are vain repetitions.

For that matter, you should not even sing the same hymn twice for the same reason.

Or is it only CATHOLICS who make “vain repetitions,” but pop-evangelicals never do?

 

[promethius]

“But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.” (Matt 6:7)

Vain repetitions here is battologeo which means to repeat the same thing over and over. I was wondering why Priests tell their followers to repeat “hail mary’s” and such over and over.

Why not use an approved and correct translation of the bible? The proper definition is

Original WordWord Origin βατταλογέω from Battos (a proverbial stammerer) and (3056)Transliterated WordPhonetic Spelling battalogeō bat-tol-og-eh’-o The Bible - Read and Study Free Online

Parts of SpeechTDNT Verb 1:597,103 Definition

1. 
   *]to stammer
   *]to repeat the same things over and over, to use many idle words, to babble, prate. Some suppose the word derived from Battus, a king of Cyrene, who is said to have stuttered; others from Battus, an author of tedious and wordy poems.
   
   As can be seen, this is an admonishment against the current pagan practice of the day, which was literally to bounce around and shake and to babble incoherently. Vain repetitions was a scriptural invention of anti-catholic protestants who have no problem modifying the scriptures to suit their own end (such as the addition of the word “alone” in Eph 2:8). The proper translation from the Douaey-Rheims is:
   
   Mathew 6:7 –
   7And when you are praying, speak not much, as the heathens. For they think that in their much speaking they may be heard.
   
   Let’s look then: Why repetitions?
   
   In catholic prayer, the words being said is not often of utmost importance. It is the intention held in the heart, a concise and clear statement of the will calling out to God. In our every day lives, this intention is muddled with mundane concerns which intrude on our will and keep us from our focus on God. In effect, a prayer which centers the will and allows us respite from our daily conditions to take time to focus on God and on our intention is a beautiful and necessary thing.

 

[Lampo]

“But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.” (Matt 6:7)

Vain repetitions here is battologeo which means to repeat the same thing over and over. I was wondering why Priests tell their followers to repeat “hail mary’s” and such over and over.

That is an interesting text, but why did you stop at the end of verse 7? In verse 9, Jesus says explicitly, “Pray then like this.” He then goes on to teach us to pray the Lord’s Prayer (the Our Father). If Jesus was against standardized prayers, why did he give us one to pray? And I presume you would agree that he wanted us to pray this on many occasions.

Not all repetition is vain. Consider the prayers spoken of in Revelation 4:8 offered day and night without ceasing: “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!” Another repetitious prayer pleasing to God is contained in Psalm 136: “For his steadfast love endures for ever.” This phrase is repeated over twenty-five times. Finally, Matthew 26:44 tells us that Jesus himself prayed the same prayer three times in the garden in Gethsemane.

Matt. 26:44 - for example, Jesus prayed a third time in the garden of Gethsemane, saying the exact same words again. It is not the repetition that is the issue. It’s the vanity. God looks into our heart, not solely at our words.

Luke 18:13 - the tax collector kept beating his breast and praying “God be merciful to me, a sinner.” This repetitive prayer was pleasing to God because it was offered with a sincere and repentant heart.

Sources:
catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0405sbs.asp
scripturecatholic.com/vain_and_repetitious_prayer.html

 

[JOL]

“But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.” (Matt 6:7)

Vain repetitions here is battologeo which means to repeat the same thing over and over. I was wondering why Priests tell their followers to repeat “hail mary’s” and such over and over.

How many times do you tell a loved one “I love you?” Do you say it in vain?

 

[GeorgeSword]

First thought on reading that passage.
What heathens pray? If they pray, are they really heathens?

Second thought on reading that passage was what’s vain?

Are you only worried about what Priests reccomend to others? I’ve seen some really repetitive stuff prayed on you tube by protestant street preachers. Why do they do that?

Yep, they can pray and still be heathens. It just means that they are Pagan, and aren’t praying to the Christian God.
Dust, next time why not try out the search function? This is a very common question, answered plenty of times. Stick around here and you’ll learn alot I think

 

[Della]

First thought on reading that passage.
What heathens pray? If they pray, are they really heathens?

Jesus is referring to non-Jews who worship idols. I’ve always wondered what he would have said about reading the entrails of chickens and other such pagan practices. What he was driving at was this–we should not be superstituous in our prayers, thinking that if we babble enough the “gods” will do what we wish.

Second thought on reading that passage was what’s vain?

Ancient Romans used to erect altars to their gods when they got an answer to prayer, but if they got no answer/one they didn’t like they wouldn’t erect one out of a petulant desire to “punish” the god for ignoring their petitions. It’s that kind of thinking Jesus is warning us against.

Are you only worried about what Priests reccomend to others? I’ve seen some really repetitive stuff prayed on you tube by protestant street preachers. Why do they do that?

People don’t think to look inside their own faith communities before jumping all over others’ faith practices. It’s an “us vs. them” mentality we should all avoid.

The truth is often much more complex than a sentence or two explanation/accusation might make it appear. Some people just can’t be bothered if it means having to see things as they really are instead of how they want to believe/been told they are.

I am hoping, From Dust, that you really want to know what Catholics are doing as Catholics understand it. We know we aren’t using “vain repetition”–we know how we are praying and what prayer is. We have many books on the topic by the greatest saints and mystics who ever lived. You might want to look into it.

 

[Dtmccameron]

First thought on reading that passage.
What heathens pray? If they pray, are they really heathens?

Second thought on reading that passage was what’s vain?

hea⋅then [hee-thuhn] noun, plural -thens, -then, adjective
–noun
1.an unconverted individual of a people that do not acknowledge the God of the Bible; a person who is neither a Jew, Christian, nor Muslim; pagan.
2.an irreligious, uncultured, or uncivilized person.
–adjective
3.of or pertaining to heathens; pagan.
4.irreligious, uncultured, or uncivilized.

If by #3 we reason that heathens were pagans, it could be understood that their prayers were directed towards whatever gods they worshiped. Hoever, if we take “irreligious” from numbers 2 and 4, it might actually make the vain repetitions more meaningful. After all, for an irreligious person, even a single prayer is in vain! All for show, that is to say.

 

[Della]

If by #3 we reason that heathens were pagans, it could be understood that their prayers were directed towards whatever gods they worshiped. Hoever, if we take “irreligious” from numbers 2 and 4, it might actually make the vain repetitions more meaningful. After all, for an irreligious person, even a single prayer is in vain! All for show, that is to say.

That’s true, but we should really read this within the context of Jesus’ times and what he meant by the word heathen. He meant pagans and a specific habit of some of them to practice babbling in order to get what they wanted from their gods. He may also have been referring to putting oneself into a trance–a practice by many shamans that isn’t praying but divination. Something we should also avoid.

 

[tm30]

“But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.” (Matt 6:7)

Vain repetitions here is battologeo which means to repeat the same thing over and over. I was wondering why Priests tell their followers to repeat “hail mary’s” and such over and over.

Jesus also taught us to repeat the Our Father whenever we pray… so… maybe you’re not interpreting this correctly.

With respect to the verse you’ve cited, the term “vain repetitions” relates to the notion that they will be heard for their “much speaking”. i.e., as if it’s the quantity of prayer that determines its quality. That said, repetitive prayer is extremely powerful when it’s not treated lightly. Repetition is not a bad thing. The Lord created the earth to repeat its mundane rotation every 24 hours and its orbit of the sun every 365 days. The Lord creates new lives over and over again - seemingly pointless repetition? God ordered the Israelite to march around Jericho eight times before blowing the trumpets? The angels cry out Holy, Holy, Holy. Vanity or power of repetition?

 

[Holly3278]

I think it is important to realize that repetitious prayers such as the rosary and the divine mercy chaplet are not vain repetition. It is fruitful repetition. During the rosary, one meditates on the mysteries. During the divine mercy chaplet, one meditates on Christ’s passion. Therefore, they are not vain repetitions. I recommend the following reading:

catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9409fea3.asp

 

[Ignatius]

“But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.” (Matt 6:7)
.

The focus is on ‘vain’, not repetition. This is illustrated plentifully in the Bible:
In heaven the angels “Day and night they never cease to sing, ‘Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, which was and is and is to come’” (Rev 4:8)
and the Seraphim cry to eachother “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of Hosts, the whold earth is full of his glory.” (Isa 6:3)
And the multitudes in Israel went before and followed crying “Hosanna, to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.”

 

[Cbailey2]

“But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.” (Matt 6:7)

Vain repetitions here is battologeo which means to repeat the same thing over and over. I was wondering why Priests tell their followers to repeat “hail mary’s” and such over and over.

Matthew 6:8-14: "Do not be like them. Your Father knows what you need before you ask him. “This is how you are to pray: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven. Give us today our daily bread; and forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors; and do not subject us to the final test, but deliver us from the evil one.”

So let me get this straight: Christ tells us not to pray one way and then tells us the right way to pray, giving us specific words to say - or more accurately - to repeat and the deep meaning you get from Matthew 6:7-14 is don’t “repeat the same thing over and over?” I’m sorry but that seems a little strange to me. The “Our Father” (which is one of the “and such” you refer to above) is held by Catholics and protestants to be a very holy form of prayer as Jesus told us directly that it is how we should pray.

This example only illustrates to me that God’s One Truth is incapable of standing on the one leg of sola scriptura. The other leg is either personal interpretation, which is often mistakes pride for the Holy Spirit, or tradition (either Catholic with a “T” or protestant with a “t”).

 

[Peter_Dawson]

“But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.” (Matt 6:7)

Vain repetitions here is battologeo which means to repeat the same thing over and over. I was wondering why Priests tell their followers to repeat “hail mary’s” and such over and over.

Ask the Book of Psalms. See Psalm 136…

**1 Praise the LORD, who is so good; God’s love endures forever;
2 Praise the God of gods; God’s love endures forever;
3 Praise the Lord of lords; God’s love endures forever;
4 Who alone has done great wonders, God’s love endures forever;
5 Who skillfully made the heavens, God’s love endures forever;
6 Who spread the earth upon the waters, God’s love endures forever;
7 Who made the great lights, God’s love endures forever;
8 The sun to rule the day, God’s love endures forever;
9 The moon and stars to rule the night, God’s love endures forever;
10 Who struck down the firstborn of Egypt, God’s love endures forever;
11 And led Israel from their midst, God’s love endures forever;
12 With mighty hand and outstretched arm, God’s love endures forever;
13 Who split in two the Red Sea, God’s love endures forever;
14 And led Israel through, God’s love endures forever;
15But swept Pharaoh and his army into the Red Sea, God’s love endures forever;
16 Who led the people through the desert, God’s love endures forever;
17 Who struck down great kings, God’s love endures forever;
18 Slew powerful kings, God’s love endures forever;
19 Sihon, king of the Amorites, God’s love endures forever;
20 Og, king of Bashan, God’s love endures forever;
21 And made their lands a heritage, God’s love endures forever;
22 A heritage for Israel, God’s servant, God’s love endures forever.
23 The LORD remembered us in our misery, God’s love endures forever;
24 Freed us from our foes, God’s love endures forever;
25 And gives food to all flesh, God’s love endures forever.
26 Praise the God of heaven, God’s love endures forever. **

Also ask the Book of Revelation, which describes worship of Christ in Heaven…

8 Day and night they do not stop exclaiming: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God almighty, who was, and who is, and who is to come.” Revelation 4:8.

So, either the Holy Spirit and the worshipping creatures in Revelation are sinning, or your definition is wrong.

“Vain repetitions” criticizes people for that repetitive petitioning we do when we agonize: “God, ya gotta help me! God, ya gotta help me! God, ya gotta help me!” Why? It is ultimately faithless prayer, reflecting a lack of trust in God. We repeat, because we don’t trust.

In the highly repetitive Rosary, which repeats just like Psalm 136 and like the four creatures in Heaven endlessly repeating,

Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God almighty, who was, and who is, and who is to come.
Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God almighty, who was, and who is, and who is to come.
Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God almighty, who was, and who is, and who is to come.
Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God almighty, who was, and who is, and who is to come.
Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God almighty, who was, and who is, and who is to come…

…there is none of that faithless repetitive agonizing.

 

[JustaServant]

Following your exegesis, you should not sing a hymn with a refrain, because these are vain repetitions.

For that matter, you should not even sing the same hymn twice for the same reason.

Or is it only CATHOLICS who make “vain repetitions,” but pop-evangelicals never do?

You ever been to a Baptist prayer meeting? When its Deacon Jones turn to pray audible sighs are heard from people because he WILL pray for 20 SOLID MINUTES, basically saying the same thing using different words. After a while, its pretty obvious he isn’t praying to God, he’s talking to himself. There were times, and I admit this, I prayed to God to please end this prayer!!.

Seriously, the purpose of repitition is to discipline our prayer life. Like physical exercise it forces us to consentrate on the words, clear our brains of frivolous thoughts. It actually helps our spontanous prayer.