Why V2?

[starrs0]

Why did Vatican II happen what was going on in the Church in the years before the council that John XXIII felt it was necessary to convene it?

 

[awalt]

The Second Vatican Council, or Vatican II, was an ecclesial, theological, and ecumenical congress convened in the autumns of the four years from 1962 through 1965. Pope John XXIII convoked the Council on October 11, 1962, and with bishops from all over the world, sought to define the nature, scope, and mission of the Church. Of the 2,908 clergy entitled to attend the Council, 2,450 did so. The Council closed December 8, 1965.

The Council produced 16 documents some of which are described as the greatest expressions of Catholic social teaching in church history.

Vatican II marked a fundamental shift towards the modern Church. The decisions of the Council, especially those regarding the liturgy, affected the lives of Catholics around the world. After Vatican II the use of the vernacular language was permitted in the celebration of the Mass and in 1970 the new Sacramentary and Novus Ordo (New Order of Mass) were established. Increased participation by the laity distinguishes Catholic life after the Second Vatican Council. Bible study groups, Marriage Encounter, social action organizations, and the charismatic renewal movement are all fruits of the Council. Vatican II made possible the many post-conciliar official Church documents on Catholic social teaching.

While the basic doctrines of the Church did not change with the Council, its influence and documents created more profound changes for the Catholic Church than occurred in the previous five hundred years. Since Pope John XXIII spoke of “opening the windows of the Church” great and gradual changes have occurred.

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[dumspirospero]

1) The Council produced 16 documents some of which are described as the greatest expressions of Catholic social teaching in church history.

1. Increased participation by the laity distinguishes Catholic life after the Second Vatican Council. Bible study groups, Marriage Encounter, social action organizations, and the charismatic renewal movement are all fruits of the Council.
2. Since Pope John XXIII spoke of “opening the windows of the Church” great and gradual changes have occurred.

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1. Really…please elaborate…don’t make statements without substantiation.
2. I guess they needed a higher participation of the laity, considering that Post V2, our number in priestly and religious vocations has plummeted in frightening numbers.
3. What windows do you speak of…are you talking about the reform of the liturgy…the vernacular??? Are you talking about the lax standards? The removal of Christ from the center of the Altars? The Hand Holding at Mass? The Orans Posture? The coffee and doughnuts following Mass? The Moral Relativism we face today?

Keep in mind…these views may not be my own…but I am definitely playing devils advocate…and to do such, I demand answers…please don’t offer your opinion without substantiating your claims.

 

[starrs0]

Ok I get all that but that still doesn’t answer my question why did all these things happen what was going on in the Church to provok this kind of reform? I need specifics.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

starrs0:

Ok I get all that but that still doesn’t answer my question why did all these things happen what was going on in the Church to provok this kind of reform? I need specifics.

The problem is you are asking the wrong question. Pope John XXIII was concerned about a number of issues, both within and without the Chruch. Those inside the Church included the dwindling number of people attending Mass in Europe (they were about 20 years ahead of the United States with regard to this problem) and the problem arising in Holland with regard to catechesis and a “liberalization” of the Church. Those events outside the Church included the development of a “world village” as a result of television, increasing secularization, and a rising sense (provided by the bishops in ther ad limina visits) that the Church was no longer speaking to the people. She had become simply another source of “noise” as people began to do what they wanted.

Finally, Pope John XXIII had a great love of the Eastern Churches, and wanted to see something done to try to restore the break in relations between East and West. This led to a greater desire for ecumenical work.

Vatican II was not a whim, nor was it the result of some simple issue. Pope John XXIII saw a complex issue that he could not resolve – but which he felt the Church could resolve it the bishops came together and worked on it.

Deacon Ed

 

[palmas85]

starrs0:

Ok I get all that but that still doesn’t answer my question why did all these things happen what was going on in the Church to provok this kind of reform? I need specifics.

That is a question that has never really been answered. There are many theories, mostly conspiratorial in nature, that address the issue. Archbishop Bugnini comes to mind and the whole freemason debate. My own personal opinion is that the Holy Father felt the time was ripe for the Church to move into the future, to boldy go where no man has gone before as it were. After all, he was, at least in theory, a transitional Pope and maybe wanted to be sure he left a legacy. Most people can’t name more than a couple of the Popes, and even fewer can tell you what they did. Not so in his case. So maybe he found a way to make his mark so to speak. Who knows?

As to what was wrong with the church, declining mass attendance, declining vocations, questioning of the Vaticans role in the Church,growing general ecumenical feelings, and a desire to be more relevant to modern life. all have been pushed forward as a rationale…Remember this was the 60’s, a different era than today. Vatican II probably would not have had anywhere near the impact it did had it not been held in that era.

In the end result, it really doesn’t matter. The Holy Father felt it was needed, it was done, and we live with it today.

 

[netmilsmom]

dumspirospero:

1. I guess they needed a higher participation of the laity, considering that Post V2, our number in priestly and religious vocations has plummeted in frightening numbers.

Boy and they got it didn’t they.
Marriage Encounters are another GREAT example. Every couple I know that went to one (including my two sisters) are now divorced. One is remarried outside the church and one turned lesbian. GREAT.