Why was I told that the Pagan Roman Empire was peaceful - When will the re-writing of history stop?!

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SeanF1989

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Far from being a utopia for universal goddess worship, ancient Pagan societies usually treated women no better than chattel. In Greco-Roman culture, if a woman was raped, she was expected to kill herself from bringing shame to her family. Yes, you read that right. Women were rarely given an education and seldom ventured out of their homes after they were married. Christianity was really the first great women’s liberation. Christians taught that husbands should be kind to their wives. The practice of killing a woman when her husband died, known as “widow burning” was practiced in many ancient Indo-European Pagan cultures. Christians banned this barbaric practice in countries (including Rome) where it took root. By contrast, in Pagan India, the practice continued until 1000 A.D. and beyond.

Rome, supposedly the most advanced of the ancient Pagan nations, was far from non-violent. The heathen Romans were fascinated by the gladiator games, and they were much more cruel than the Russel Crowe movie. The Pagans of “pre-xtian” Rome feasted their eyes and ears on the sights and sounds of murder. The Colosseum, which stands today as a testament to the barbarism that was Pagan Rome, was the place of the execution of not only men but thousands of women as well. According to author Peter B. Ellis, to mark the grand opening of this death factory in, a total of 9,000 animals were killed in fights with men and women. The number of men and women slaughtered that day is not known, but no doubt it was in the thousands as well. In the early days of the Pagan Roman Empire 300 prisoners had to fight to the death, and 1200 women and men were killed by wild animals in a single day at the Circus Maximus. As a special feature during this Pagan event, 20 girls were forced to have sex with wild animals. It took the death of a Christian monk to finally put an end to the gladiator games, when he was killed trying to stop such a “game”. The idea of ancients Pagans being enlightened, peace-loving and somehow more tolerant of women is ridiculous!

In many Pagan cultures, women could not inherit property, and when their husbands or male relatives died they were left destitute. This changed under Christianity, and women could finally inherit property. Women who had unwanted babies had no choice but to abandon them to starve to death and die from exposure. Christianity changed all that, stopping these practices and creating the first orphanages.

Rather than being objects for the pyre, widows were treated kinder in the Christian era, and were given alms rather than allowed to starve to death on the street or become prostitutes. Early Christian writers make clear that widows as a group held a place of considerable honor and dignity. Often they are listed along with the bishop, elders, and deacons and Tertullian calls them an “order” and says that widows were assigned a place of honor within the assembled congregation.

If women chose not to marry, they too could persue the scholarly life of the monastery. The tradition of learned monastic women continued into the medieval period. Lioba (eighth century), sister of St. Boniface, “had been trained from infancy in the rudiments of grammar and the study of the other liberal arts.” “So great was her zeal for reading that she discontinued it only for prayer or for the refreshment of her body with food or sleep: the Scriptures were never out of her hands.” “She read with attention all the books of the Old and New Testaments and learned by heart all the commandments of God. To these she added by way of completion the writings of the Church Fathers, the decrees of the Councils and the whole of ecclesiastical law. Princes and bishops, we are told, “often discussed spiritual matters and ecclesiastical discipline with her”.”(Life of St. Lioba, in The Anglo-Saxon Missionaries in Germany. Many of the first converts to Christianity were women. Early churches often met in the houses of wealthy women during the Lion Times. This is because women could see that under Christianity they would have more rights and more freedom.
 
The Church also didn’t want anyone, especially women, to be educated, which is why it founded so many universities. 🙂

Good thing the “Enlighhtenment” brought us out of the “Dark Ages.”. Those two phrases are factual terms, not value judgments!

🙂

Yes, rewriting history is one of the more fun parts of propaganda.
 
The Pagan Roman Empire was very peaceful compared to most other similar (if anything can be said to ever have existed) societies and systems of governance. This isn’t recent rewriting of history: it’s the pax Romana spoken of for two thousand years, ever since Augustus defeated Antony.

It may have been intolerant of political Jews and Christians by association, and some, like Julian the Apostate, blamed new religions displacing old ones for the decline of Roman society, and persecuted or repressed accordingly. Some Emperors were mad (Nero, also an amazingly ambitious visionary, as many madmen are), and found in Christians a target for their hate (blaming the burning of Rome on them), and it was definitely more violent in its last two hundred years (and much more so as it became the Byzantine empire), but it was undoubtedly very peaceful, especially during the Golden Age of Octavian Augustus - Marcus Aurelius.

The “Dark Ages” (the Middle Ages) were actually some of the most spiritually enlightened ages of Man in the West, and laid the ground for all that was to come and make the West great, the modernizer, the industrializer, the uncontested leader of physical science and research, and of birthing philosophical movements - these were rooted in the deep interiority, and focus on wisdom and spiritual things instead of mechanical aptitude and worldly things, of the Middle Ages, even with all of its petty wars, benefices, corruption, and other flaws. The Early Middle Ages (Merovingian/Carolingian) laid the framework for what was to come, and St Thomas Aquinas worked and produced in the High Middle Ages of the 13th century, one of the greatest centuries of philosophical and architectural (and, a century or two later, general artistic) achievement of Man.

Not to mention we have the worldly, carnal, church-confiscating progenitor of the Carolingians, Charles Martel, to thank for having Christendom and Christian Europe, instead of the Caliphate and Muslim Europe.
 
Good thing the “Enlighhtenment” brought us out of the “Dark Ages.”. Those two phrases are factual terms, not value judgments!

Yes! Where the Church burnt and murdered everyone who wasn’t Catholic and executed anyone who attempted to use the scientific method!
[/sarcasm]
 
Well most of the above is quite confusing - which in and of itself tells me something. Certainly the claim of ‘peace’ cannot be laid at the Roman Empire’s doorstep with any degree of validity. We would have to first of all 1) define peace 2) define peace for whom? 3) define which sources we use are absolutely true.:rolleyes: 4) Discuss some of the tortuous practices of the Roman Empiore. 5) Discuss Rome’s (Empire) expansionist policies. 6) Need I say more?:cool:
 
As far as the rights of woman go in the pagan world, it would be about the same as if we were to talk about the rights of woman in the monotheist world. Rome was better then some and worse then other. Some of the Norse tribes treated woman as equal to men, and in some cases better then men. Other Norse tribes kept woman as almost slaves just there for pleasure of whatever man wanted to use her that day. Remember that this was a much larger world then it is today. If you were in many pagan groups, you might know a few other groups around you, and that is all. As a result it is very hard to point the finger at even a group of tribes. Each did things differently.

As far as woman being expected to kill herself if she was raped, is that any worse then making her get married to her attacker?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
28 'If a man meets a young virgin who is not betrothed and seizes her, sleeps with her and is caught in the act,

29 her ravisher must give the girl’s father fifty silver shekels; since he has exploited her, she must be his wife and, as long as he lives, he may not divorce her.’

Pax :signofcross:
 
As far as woman being expected to kill herself if she was raped, is that any worse then making her get married to her attacker?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
28 'If a man meets a young virgin who is not betrothed and seizes her, sleeps with her and is caught in the act,

29 her ravisher must give the girl’s father fifty silver shekels; since he has exploited her, she must be his wife and, as long as he lives, he may not divorce her.’

Pax :signofcross:
Well, I can’t speak for anyone else, but personally I think forced suicide is a LOT worse! Also, notice above the man is expected to take responsibility and in some way make up for the despicable act. The woman isn’t told she brought shame on the family, but the rapist brought shame on her and himself. Not an ideal solution, but a step up from forcing her to commit suicide!
 
Read Plutarch’s Lives Of The Noble Greeks And Romans. In those days it was kill or be killed. Your diatribe about the rights of women, while true in and of itself, as another commentator on this thread had pointed out, was a state of affairs not unique to Rome, and, consequently, points to the likelyhood that either it was not what you really wanted to say or you mislabeled the thread.

As to why you were told those things - have you ever asked the person who told you them?
 
As far as the rights of woman go in the pagan world, it would be about the same as if we were to talk about the rights of woman in the monotheist world. Rome was better then some and worse then other. Some of the Norse tribes treated woman as equal to men, and in some cases better then men. Other Norse tribes kept woman as almost slaves just there for pleasure of whatever man wanted to use her that day. Remember that this was a much larger world then it is today. If you were in many pagan groups, you might know a few other groups around you, and that is all. As a result it is very hard to point the finger at even a group of tribes. Each did things differently.

As far as woman being expected to kill herself if she was raped, is that any worse then making her get married to her attacker?

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
28 'If a man meets a young virgin who is not betrothed and seizes her, sleeps with her and is caught in the act,

29 her ravisher must give the girl’s father fifty silver shekels; since he has exploited her, she must be his wife and, as long as he lives, he may not divorce her.’

Pax :signofcross:
I know there was another thread which addressed this quote from Deuteronomy and in fact, I thought you were on that thread (I could be wrong, there are lots of threads here). . .

Because according to that thread, it did not refer to rape but rather to a man who SEDUCES a young woman (because he promises her he’ll marry her), and in order to protect the young woman who was DECEIVED the young man has to live UP to the promise. . .and can’t just ‘divorce her’. In fact, it seems pretty darned fair. He doesn’t get away with the lie.
 
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