Why was Jesus baptized by Saint John the Baptist when Jesus was/is sinless?

[Holly3278]

Hey everyone. I am just wondering, why was Jesus baptized by Saint John the Baptist when Jesus was without sin. I watched a video by Jimmy Akin on this which I will link to below and I understand that part of the reason was so that He would be revealed as the Son of God. I don’t understand the other part about what Jimmy Akin is saying though. Also, if you wish to add anything besides what Jimmy Akin said in the latter part of the video then feel free to do so. I would like an explanation of the latter part of the video though. Thanks a lot.

youtube.com/watch?v=d1IBGudjaxs

 

[PeaceInChrist]

Hey everyone. I am just wondering, why was Jesus baptized by Saint John the Baptist when Jesus was without sin. I watched a video by Jimmy Akin on this which I will link to below and I understand that part of the reason was so that He would be revealed as the Son of God. I don’t understand the other part about what Jimmy Akin is saying though. Also, if you wish to add anything besides what Jimmy Akin said in the latter part of the video then feel free to do so. I would like an explanation of the latter part of the video though. Thanks a lot.

youtube.com/watch?v=d1IBGudjaxs

This was discussed among friends of mine using the Ignatius Study Bible. I think it was determined that John’s baptisms did not have the regenerative effect that sacramental baptism would have (Christ hadn’t bestowed His Spirit or given authority to John to do so, this would come later as Christ gave authority to the Apostles). However, just as the Kings of the Old Testament were anointed by prophets, so the King of kings was annointed, being symbolically baptized by a prophet, with the witness of the Holy Spirit and God the Father testifying to His legitimacy as the Messiah, the Son of God.

Don’t take my word as dogma; rather, have a look at the Ignatius Study Bible and perhaps the Haydock commentary. I’m sure you’ll find a good answer with patristic backing.

 

[The_Reginator]

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

536 The baptism of Jesus is on his part the acceptance and inauguration of his mission as God’s suffering Servant. He allows himself to be numbered among sinners; he is already “the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world”.232 Already he is anticipating the “baptism” of his bloody death.233 Already he is coming to “fulfill all righteousness”, that is, he is submitting himself entirely to his Father’s will: out of love he consents to this baptism of death for the remission of our sins.234 The Father’s voice responds to the Son’s acceptance, proclaiming his entire delight in his Son.235 The Spirit whom Jesus possessed in fullness from his conception comes to “rest on him”.236 Jesus will be the source of the Spirit for all mankind. At his baptism "the heavens were opened"237 - the heavens that Adam’s sin had closed - and the waters were sanctified by the descent of Jesus and the Spirit, a prelude to the new creation.

**“He allows himself to be numbered among sinners.” ** What love our God has for us!

 

[Holly3278]

This was discussed among friends of mine using the Ignatius Study Bible. I think it was determined that John’s baptisms did not have the regenerative effect that sacramental baptism would have (Christ hadn’t bestowed His Spirit or given authority to John to do so, this would come later as Christ gave authority to the Apostles). However, just as the Kings of the Old Testament were anointed by prophets, so the King of kings was annointed, being symbolically baptized by a prophet, with the witness of the Holy Spirit and God the Father testifying to His legitimacy as the Messiah, the Son of God.

Don’t take my word as dogma; rather, have a look at the Ignatius Study Bible and perhaps the Haydock commentary. I’m sure you’ll find a good answer with patristic backing.

Thank you. I don’t have an Ignatius Study Bible but I do have a Catholic Study Bible, its not an Ignatius Study Bible though. I do have the Haydock Bible Commentary in my E-Sword program though and I will take a look at it sometime.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

**“He allows himself to be numbered among sinners.” ** What love our God has for us!

Oh okay, I can see that He allowed Himself to be numbered among sinners but I don’t understand why He would have done this. Can you explain please?

Also, I apologize but the Catechism of the Catholic Church doesn’t make much sense to me. I am of below average intelligence and I honestly don’t understand what it is saying much of the time.

 

[SilverCamellia]

I have not done any studying about it other than the notes in my NAB Bible, but when I thought about Jesus being baptised it puzzled me too. But then I thought, we are to follow Jesus. So perhaps He was baptised by John to give us a precedent and an example to follow. When we are baptised we become a child of God and God himself says, ‘This is my Son …’ when Jesus is baptised. Baptism also opens us up to the Holy Spirit. The HS came upon Jesus at his baptism and made him fit for his coming ministry.

Holly3278, you say you are below average intelligence but your posts suggest otherwise and I have always paid attention to your posts when I have found them, and found them intelligent and insightful

And honestly I struggle with the Catechism too. May I respectfully suggest The Compendium of the Catechism and Youcat. I own both the full Catechism and the Compendium and the Compendium is the one I actually look at.

 

[RyanBlack]

St. Gregory the Theologian (St. Gregory of Nazianzus) taught that Christ received baptism in order to make the waters of baptism life-giving for us.

 

[Polycarp1]

This was discussed among friends of mine using the Ignatius Study Bible. I think it was determined that John’s baptisms did not have the regenerative effect that sacramental baptism would have (Christ hadn’t bestowed His Spirit or given authority to John to do so, this would come later as Christ gave authority to the Apostles). However, just as the Kings of the Old Testament were anointed by prophets, so the King of kings was annointed, being symbolically baptized by a prophet, with the witness of the Holy Spirit and God the Father testifying to His legitimacy as the Messiah, the Son of God.

Don’t take my word as dogma; rather, have a look at the Ignatius Study Bible and perhaps the Haydock commentary. I’m sure you’ll find a good answer with patristic backing.

We recently had a sermon on this and you are right. Baptism has several affects, not just the forgiveness of original sin that Jesus didn’t need.

 

[peace2u2]

Hey everyone. I am just wondering, why was Jesus baptized by Saint John the Baptist when Jesus was without sin. I watched a video by Jimmy Akin on this which I will link to below and I understand that part of the reason was so that He would be revealed as the Son of God. I don’t understand the other part about what Jimmy Akin is saying though. Also, if you wish to add anything besides what Jimmy Akin said in the latter part of the video then feel free to do so. I would like an explanation of the latter part of the video though. Thanks a lot.

youtube.com/watch?v=d1IBGudjaxs

I was taught that the Baptism of Jesus was a sign that He was accepting His mission as Messiah and to identify more fully with us. I’ll have to watch the youtube video and comment after.

 

[Gorgias]

We recently had a sermon on this and you are right. Baptism has several affects, not just the forgiveness of original sin that Jesus didn’t need.

This is true, Jesus didn’t have original sin – but it doesn’t imply that the baptism of John forgave original sin! (I don’t know if you meant to imply that it did, but on the off-chance that that was what you were thinking, I wanted to make sure to point this out…! )

 

[A_G]

The Baptism of Jesus was necessary not for Him, but for us. He did this, submitting Himself humbly to the baptism of St. John the Baptist, to provide the example for the rest of us. Jesus was born without Original Sin, and He lived His entire life without sinning. Therefore, He did this for us. He wanted to show us that we need to be baptized. Baptism is necessary for the remission of sins, particularly Original Sin.

Jesus wanted to show us how to live a good life, how to repent of our sins, and focus on God.

Also, a good link to look at is the following:

phatcatholic.blogspot.com/2010/01/for-feast-of-baptism-of-lord.html

 

[Mintaka]

When Jesus got baptized, He instituted Baptism as a Sacrament.

And that doesn’t just mean that He gave us a good example and set a precedent and set up an activity for us to do.

It means that He (and the Father, and the Holy Spirit) gave sacramental power, divine power, to the act of being Baptized.

Look, Jesus didn’t have to die, either. He chose to die, because by His dying, He put His power into death so thoroughly that death became eternal life for those who are part of His Body. The same thing is true of pretty much all the Sacraments. He forgave sins and gave that power to the Apostles, and made Confession a Sacrament. He put power into His Eucharist by breaking the bread and pronouncing it His Body and pronouncing the wine to be His Blood; and He made Communion a Sacrament. He washed the Apostles as priests in the traditional way, by washing their feet, and instituted Ordination. He was anointed with perfumed oil by the women before He died, and instituted the Anointing of the Sick. He made Himself one with His Bride the Church in His Crucifixion and in Revelation, and He testified to the beginning of marriage in Eden; and He instituted Matrimony. The only Sacrament He didn’t institute all the way was Confirmation, because although He breathed the Holy Spirit on some, Confirmation really started on Pentecost and was thus fully instituted by the Holy Spirit.

All the Sacraments are acts of God and covenants with God. God instituted them by participation, not by just standing around and telling us what to do.

 

[Gorgias]

When Jesus got baptized, He instituted Baptism as a Sacrament.

Well… I don’t know that I would go that far…

When Jesus got baptized, He did a number of things. However, ‘instituting Baptism’ was something that he didn’t do until he commanded the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (Mt 28:19; cf Mk 16:16, Acts 1:8). Baptism – the sacrament – requires a Tridentine understanding. The synoptic Gospels are clear – no one, not even the apostles, understood Jesus before his resurrection: if he had instituted sacramental baptism prior to his resurrection, they wouldn’t have understood what he was telling them to do.

And that doesn’t just mean that He gave us a good example and set a precedent and set up an activity for us to do.

In his own personal baptism at the hands of John? Yeah, that’s pretty much exactly what he did. If you’re saying something different, though – that in his command to the apostles prior to his ascension, there was more than ‘good example’ – then you’re spot on.

 

[peace2u2]

When Jesus got baptized, He instituted Baptism as a Sacrament.

Yes, your correct. The Sacrament of Baptism is Scriptural and Jesus is instituting that Sacrament also with His Baptism by John the Baptist.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

 

[A_G]

Well… I don’t know that I would go that far…

When Jesus got baptized, He did a number of things. However, ‘instituting Baptism’ was something that he didn’t do until he commanded the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit (Mt 28:19; cf Mk 16:16, Acts 1:8). Baptism – the sacrament – requires a Tridentine understanding. The synoptic Gospels are clear – no one, not even the apostles, understood Jesus before his resurrection: if he had instituted sacramental baptism prior to his resurrection, they wouldn’t have understood what he was telling them to do.

In his own personal baptism at the hands of John? Yeah, that’s pretty much exactly what he did. If you’re saying something different, though – that in his command to the apostles prior to his ascension, there was more than ‘good example’ – then you’re spot on.

I believe this is correct. The Sacrament of Baptism was officially established for us when Jesus commanded we be baptised.

**“Unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God,” (John 3:5). **And His command to the Apostles was: **“Go into the whole world and preach the Gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he who does not believe” (and, by inference, is not baptized) “shall be condemned” (Mark 16: 15-16). **

 

[A_G]

It seems that there has been much debate about *when *the Sacrament of Baptism was established. I’m not sure if the Church officially says when it was established (either at Jesus’ Baptism at the river Jordan, or some time after that when He commanded the apostles to baptise). Jesus decided to be baptised for a reason. He did not need to be baptised because He was not born with Original Sin, and He did not ever sin. He did it for us.

What we do know is:

• Jesus established the Sacrament of Baptism / He commanded us to be baptised
• Baptism is necessary for us to become members of the Church and be saved
• Jesus was baptised - we must follow in His footsteps

Jesus’ Baptism at the river Jordan was very significant. Whether the Sacrament was established at that very moment or at some point after that moment - This event led to the establishment of the Sacrament of Baptism.

 

[Gorgias]

Mintaka:

When Jesus got baptized, He instituted Baptism as a Sacrament.

Yes, your correct. The Sacrament of Baptism is Scriptural and Jesus is instituting that Sacrament also with His Baptism by John the Baptist.

Maybe we should look to the Catechism has to say about it (all emphases mine):

1223 All the Old Covenant prefigurations find their fulfillment in Christ Jesus. He begins his public life after having himself baptized by St. John the Baptist in the Jordan. After his resurrection Christ gives this mission to his apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you."18

1224 Our Lord voluntarily submitted himself to the baptism of St. John, intended for sinners, in order to “fulfill all righteousness.” Jesus’ gesture is a manifestation of his self-emptying. The Spirit who had hovered over the waters of the first creation descended then on the Christ as a prelude of the new creation, and the Father revealed Jesus as his “beloved Son.”

1225 In his Passover Christ opened to all men the fountain of Baptism. He had already spoken of his Passion, which he was about to suffer in Jerusalem, as a “Baptism” with which he had to be baptized. The blood and water that flowed from the pierced side of the crucified Jesus are types of Baptism and the Eucharist, the sacraments of new life. From then on, it is possible “to be born of water and the Spirit” in order to enter the Kingdom of God.

See where you are baptized, see where Baptism comes from, if not from the cross of Christ, from his death. There is the whole mystery: he died for you. In him you are redeemed, in him you are saved.25
Baptism in the Church

1226 *From the very day of Pentecost the Church has celebrated and administered holy Baptism. *

1227 According to the Apostle Paul, the believer enters through Baptism into communion with Christ’s death, is buried with him, and rises with him … Through the Holy Spirit, Baptism is a bath that purifies, justifies, and sanctifies.

In other words, baptism is only possible after Jesus’ resurrection and the coming of the Holy Spirit. Jesus’ own baptism is a gesture and a prelude, but it doesn’t institute sacramental baptism. (If Jesus instituted the sacrament of baptism at his own baptism, then the baptisms of the apostles that John talks about in chapters 3 and 4, and the baptism of John that Paul discusses in Acts 19, would have been efficacious sacramentally. They weren’t.)

Unless what you’re saying is that Jesus instituted the sacrament to people who didn’t understand it, and couldn’t do it (since the Spirit hadn’t yet come), and who waited for an event that they couldn’t have anticipated, before they started doing it themselves.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

I believe this is correct. The Sacrament of Baptism was officially established for us when Jesus commanded we be baptised.

**“Unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God,” (John 3:5). **And His command to the Apostles was: **“Go into the whole world and preach the Gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized shall be saved, but he who does not believe” (and, by inference, is not baptized) “shall be condemned” (Mark 16: 15-16). **

Sacramental Baptism could not have been “instituted” at Jesus’s Baptism. If it was then that means valid Baptisms were being conducted at the beginning of Jesus’s ministry by both Jesus and his disciples who were known to have themselves baptised others.

Are we allowed to hold that the great (Trinitarian) Baptismal command by the resurrected Jesus may not really have happened as clearly as Mathhew’s Gospel indicates? Could it be this was an acceptable literary technique at the time to insert an evolved understanding (of Jesus’s less than clear intentions) from current Christian practice at the time of their writing back into the Gospel?. (Christians had recently broken away from mixed Jewish/Christian Synagogue communities where both groups had practised both circumcision and baptism to varying degrees. From the time of the “excommunication” of the Christians they began differentiating/defining themselves by a rejection of Circumcision in favour of Trinitarian baptism.)

But then again, I could be heterodox for suggesting this (even though there seem to be valid exegetical concerns re the actual ending of Mark’s Gospel) .

 

[A_G]

Sacramental Baptism could not have been “instituted” at Jesus’s Baptism. If it was then that means valid Baptisms were being conducted at the beginning of Jesus’s ministry by both Jesus and his disciples who were known to have themselves baptised others.

Are we allowed to hold that the great (Trinitarian) Baptismal command by the resurrected Jesus may not really have happened as clearly as Mathhew’s Gospel indicates? Could it be this was an acceptable literary technique at the time to insert an evolved understanding (of Jesus’s less than clear intentions) from current Christian practice at the time of their writing back into the Gospel?. (Christians had recently broken away from mixed Jewish/Christian Synagogue communities where both groups had practised both circumcision and baptism to varying degrees. From the time of the “excommunication” of the Christians they began differentiating/defining themselves by a rejection of Circumcision in favour of Trinitarian baptism.)

But then again, I could be heterodox for suggesting this (even though there seem to be valid exegetical concerns re the actual ending of Mark’s Gospel) .

I’m not saying when the Sacrament was “officially instituted” for us (at Jesus’ Baptism or at the time He commanded us to be Baptised). There has been much debate on this from what I see while doing my research online. I’m wondering if the Church declared anything officially on this? I couldn’t find anything while I was researching this. I believe it was “officially established” for us at the time when Jesus commanded we be baptised “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit”

In either case, it’s important to know the Jesus established and commanded us to be baptised. This is our first Sacrament.

I mentioned this in my last post (#15): forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10300096&postcount=15

 

[Blue_Horizon]

I’m not saying when the Sacrament was “officially instituted” for us (at Jesus’ Baptism or at the time He commanded us to be Baptised).
I mentioned this in my last post (#15): forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10300096&postcount=15

AG sorry for the confusion. My contrib above was responding to thoughts raised by both your goods self and Peace2U2.

Peace2U2 was suggesting that the sacrament could have been instituted when Jesus himself was baptised. I begged to disagree because that would mean Jesus’s disciples would have been administering valid sacramental baptism (making “Christians”) at the beginning of Jesus’s earthly ministry well before his death and resurrection.

 

[A_G]

AG sorry for the confusion. My contrib above was responding to thoughts raised by both your goods self and Peace2U2.

Peace2U2 was suggesting that the sacrament could have been instituted when Jesus himself was baptised. I begged to disagree because that would mean Jesus’s disciples would have been administering valid sacramental baptism (making “Christians”) at the beginning of Jesus’s earthly ministry well before his death and resurrection.

No worries my friend

God Bless