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Bouligny
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I don’t think that Judas was in a state of grace.
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Why was Judas given the Eucharist on the Last Supper when he was not at peace with Jesus?
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Brendan
Guest
He wasn’t given the Eucharist, he left before the Last Supper started
John 13
John 13
The Feast had not yet begun, or else why would the others think that Judas was going out to buy what was already on the table in front of them.“What you are about to do, do quickly,” Jesus told him, but no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him.** Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the Feast**, or to give something to the poor. As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.
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Abiien
Guest
Wow! That is so powerful.
Poor Judas, may God have mercy on him =)
Poor Judas, may God have mercy on him =)
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diggerdomer
Guest
I thought the quote you cited from John clearly indicates that Judas was given the Eucharist (he took the bread) before he left.He wasn’t given the Eucharist, he left before the Last Supper started
John 13
The Feast had not yet begun, or else why would the others think that Judas was going out to buy what was already on the table in front of them.
Am I misreading John or your message?
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diggerdomer
Guest
He may or may not have been. Either way, Jesus offered.I don’t think that Judas was in a state of grace.
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windmelody
Guest
Whatever, the Lord let the sun shines to the saints and the sinners.He may or may not have been. Either way, Jesus offered.
As he said, " the healthy don’t need the physician but the sick".
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nicolep
Guest
You’ll also notice that we are offered the Body and Blood of Our Lord regardless of whether we are in a state of grace. It’s up to us to make the right decision. It’s part of free will.
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MusicMan
Guest
Judas’s actions were a necessary cog in the wheels of salvation. Why do people not grasp that? Of course Jesus knew what Judas was about to do, but didn’t withold the Eucharist from him. Jesus knew that it was necessary for Judas to betray him. Without the Cross there would have been no Resurrection. Without the Resurrection, there would have been no Salvation.
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CentralFLJames
Guest
Prior to the last supper Jesus washed the feet of the apostles - this was like forgiving one of one’s small sins. The Church integrates this communal forgivness of small sins in the mass through the penitential rite early on in the mass before we get to the Eucharistic liturgy so a person may approach the Table of The Lord free of sin. Those in grave sin must not approach the altar and this is why Jesus told Judas to leave (e.g. “What you do, do quickly”). Judas had been tempted to betray Jesus but we can not say that he had actually resolved in is mind to do it. At any rate it appears that Judas left before Jesus offered the bread and wine. The dipping of the morsel in the dish was not the new sacrament of bread and wine but part of the ritual Seder meal. And if we read John’s text closely we see that Satan did not come into Judas until after he dipped the morsel. If it were to turn out that the morsel was in the context of the Eucharist then Satan entering into him would in fact reinforce that he just committed a grave sin by receiving the Eucharist unworthily.
John 13:26-30
Jesus then answered, “That is the one for whom I shall dip the morsel and give it to him.” So when He had dipped the morsel, He took and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. 27 After the morsel, Satan then entered into him. Therefore Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.” 28Now no one of those reclining at the table knew for what purpose He had said this to him. 29 For some were supposing, because Judas had the money box, that Jesus was saying to him, “Buy the things we have need of for the feast”; or else, that he should give something to the poor. 30So after receiving the morsel he went out immediately; and it was night.
James
John 13:26-30
Jesus then answered, “That is the one for whom I shall dip the morsel and give it to him.” So when He had dipped the morsel, He took and gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. 27 After the morsel, Satan then entered into him. Therefore Jesus said to him, “What you do, do quickly.” 28Now no one of those reclining at the table knew for what purpose He had said this to him. 29 For some were supposing, because Judas had the money box, that Jesus was saying to him, “Buy the things we have need of for the feast”; or else, that he should give something to the poor. 30So after receiving the morsel he went out immediately; and it was night.
James
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windmelody
Guest
Matthew 26:24Judas’s actions were a necessary cog in the wheels of salvation. Why do people not grasp that? Of course Jesus knew what Judas was about to do, but didn’t withold the Eucharist from him. Jesus knew that it was necessary for Judas to betray him. Without the Cross there would have been no Resurrection. Without the Resurrection, there would have been no Salvation.
“The Son of Man indeed goes, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed.It would be better for that man if he had never been born.”
Jesus destined to suffer even if Judas did not betray him.
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promethius
Guest
Bingo. There’s NO justifying Judas’ actions on the fact that “well, someone had to do it.” That’s a load of hogwash. It was sinful and Judas would have been better off not ever being born in the first place.Matthew 26:24
“The Son of Man indeed goes, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed.It would be better for that man if he had never been born.”
Jesus destined to suffer even if Judas did not betray him.
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MusicMan
Guest
Judas was absolutely necessary for our Salvation.
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Mark77
Guest
We all sin, Judas’ problem was he didn’t repent and ask forgiveness.
Jesus is eternally merciful and would surely have forgiven Judas had he been truly sorry!
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora pro Nobis Peccatoribus!
Mark
Jesus is eternally merciful and would surely have forgiven Judas had he been truly sorry!
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora pro Nobis Peccatoribus!
Mark
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promethius
Guest
Not likely. Perhaps for the timing with the passover feast, but the Sanhedron had already determined to capture and kill Jesus before that point. It was only a matter of time.Judas was absolutely necessary for our Salvation.
If Judas were necessary for our salvation (much as Mary is ACTUALLY necessary in Christ’s salvific act, though not necessarily for uniqueness other than what God gave her), then Christ would have told us something other than that Judas is to be despised. There is no santioning his acts. There are very few times Christ comes right out and condemns, and I refuse to believe that we should stand for and accept what Christ tells us is truly wrong.
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promethius
Guest
We all sin, correct. Not all of us are direct, key players in Deicide as Judas and the sanhedron were. Further, there are very few of us to whom Christ has said 'woe unto you, it would be better had you not been born."We all sin, Judas’ problem was he didn’t repent and ask forgiveness.
Jesus is eternally merciful and would surely have forgiven Judas had he been truly sorry!
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora pro Nobis Peccatoribus!
Mark
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Eric_Closs
Guest
St. John does not record, in his account of the Gospel, the words with which Christ institutes His Eucharist.
St. Mark is helpful in respect of the original question:
Mark 14
17 And when it was evening he came with the twelve. 18 And as they were at table eating, Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me, one who is eating with me.” 19 They began to be sorrowful, and to say to him one after another, “Is it I?” 20 He said to them, “It is one of the twelve, one who is dipping bread into the dish with me. 21 For the Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”
[It is at this point that St. John records Judas was dismissed; before the institution of the Eucharist.]
22 And as they were eating, he took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take; this is my body.” 23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it. 24 And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. 25 Truly, I say to you, I shall not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”
Therefore, I think it is fair to conclude Judas was not given the Eucharist at the Last Supper.
St. Mark is helpful in respect of the original question:
Mark 14
17 And when it was evening he came with the twelve. 18 And as they were at table eating, Jesus said, “Truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me, one who is eating with me.” 19 They began to be sorrowful, and to say to him one after another, “Is it I?” 20 He said to them, “It is one of the twelve, one who is dipping bread into the dish with me. 21 For the Son of man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It would have been better for that man if he had not been born.”
[It is at this point that St. John records Judas was dismissed; before the institution of the Eucharist.]
22 And as they were eating, he took bread, and blessed, and broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take; this is my body.” 23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, and they all drank of it. 24 And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. 25 Truly, I say to you, I shall not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”
Therefore, I think it is fair to conclude Judas was not given the Eucharist at the Last Supper.
- Eric
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diggerdomer
Guest
Fair? Perhaps.Therefore, I think it is fair to conclude Judas was not given the Eucharist at the Last Supper.
- Eric
Conclusive? Not.
In Luke, Chapter 22 it would appear that the Eucharist took place before Judas left.
17 And having taken the chalice, he gave thanks, and said: Take, and divide it among you: 18 For I say to you, that I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, till the kingdom of God come. 19 And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me. 20 In like manner the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you. 21 But yet behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. 22 And the Son of man indeed goeth, according to that which is determined: but yet, woe to that man by whom he shall be betrayed. 23 And they began to inquire among themselves, which of them it was that should do this thing.
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RosaryFan
Guest
If Judas was present at the institution of the Eucharist, my immediate thought on the matter is maybe Judas is a prefigurement of the scores of people who still receive the Eucharist unworthily. It happens now and it happened then. When Jesus brought himself into a world full of human frailties, I’m sure He expects the lack of reverence to which He has subjected Himself.I don’t think that Judas was in a state of grace.
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PhilotheaZ
Guest
This is from a homily on today’s readings that a priest e-mailed to me:
Another thought we should consider: Judas could only betray Our Lord after He had handed Himself over to Judas first. How did Our Lord hand Himself over to Judas? He gave Himself to Judas in Holy Communion to be consumed as a holocaust offering. Thus, in this way, Our Lord kept His primacy in everything… even in His own betrayal. Christ had to first “betray” Himself before Judas could betray Him! …
But take careful note of what we heard in yesterday’s Gospel. After Our Lord had given Judas the morsel, “Satan entered him… and it was night.” St. Vincent Ferrer: “he who communicates unworthily receives the devil.”
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