Why was Muhammed at war?

[Thyme]

One time, I told a Muslim friend that God allowed the Israelites to go to war because people would sacrifice babies to burning statues and roll them in fire etc…

He then said something like, “That’s the same reason why God allowed people in the Qu 'ran to kill”.

I don’t think he knows the Qu 'ran well, but I secretly wondered what the Jews, Christians and Pagans of those days were doing that was so bad.

I am now asking this question. Answers from a Muslim’s point of view would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Quotes, just in case I’m asked for them:

“seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.” 4:89

O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them. 5:51

…Then fight and slay the Pagans wherever you find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war…9:5

Therefore, when you meet the Unbelievers in fight, smite at their necks; at length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly on them… He lets you fight in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of Allah, - He will never let their deeds be lost. 47:4

Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection (9:29).

 

[Michaelfacist1]

One time, I told a Muslim friend that God allowed the Israelites to go to war because people would sacrifice babies to burning statues and roll them in fire etc…

He then said something like, “That’s the same reason why God allowed people in the Qu 'ran to kill”.

I don’t think he knows the Qu 'ran well, but I secretly wondered what the Jews, Christians and Pagans of those days were doing that was so bad.

I am now asking this question. Answers from a Muslim’s point of view would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Quotes, just in case I’m asked for them:

One false statement leading to another false statement. That’s how many ridiculous ideologies get started.

Your reasonings are flawed. Go read the book of Exodus & Judges again.

 

[JohnCS]

Many people who study the Koran break it into 2 separate parts: The stuff Mohammed wrote while at Mecca and the stuff he wrote while at Medina. The earlier stuff preached peace and the peaceful conversion of all non-muslims, while the later stuff preached the use of sword, subterfuge, and any other means of making conversions. He was at war because according to his beliefs it was the Islamic goal to make the entire world fall under Islam; rid the world of non-believers. It seems that he, at first, hoped that people would convert upon suggestion and teaching, when that didn’t happen he resorted to war, taxes, murder, etc…

 

[Thyme]

Many people who study the Koran break it into 2 separate parts: The stuff Mohammed wrote while at Mecca and the stuff he wrote while at Medina. The earlier stuff preached peace and the peaceful conversion of all non-muslims, while the later stuff preached the use of sword, subterfuge, and any other means of making conversions. He was at war because according to his beliefs it was the Islamic goal to make the entire world fall under Islam; rid the world of non-believers. It seems that he, at first, hoped that people would convert upon suggestion and teaching, when that didn’t happen he resorted to war, taxes, murder, etc…

Thanks for this answer. Luckily, the majority of Muslims follow the peaceful route, but I was wondering if they believe that it is the word of God to do it by force, just as Muhammed said to.

 

[elwill]

Thanks for this answer. Luckily, the majority of Muslims follow the peaceful route, but I was wondering if they believe that it is the word of God to do it by force, just as Muhammed said to.

hi , Thyme
did you read these verses before ? may be after reading them you can understand the context of verses of wars

60-8Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.
60-9Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.

i hope if my point is clear enough ,
the verses of wars , (all of them) are talking about specific events
we as muslims can follow these verses of violence in one condition , if we found ourselfs in same situation of them

 

[Sam_777]

(Quran 2:216):
*“YUSUFALI: Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.
PICKTHAL: Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.
SHAKIR: Fighting is enjoined on you, and it is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.”
*

كتب عليكم القتال وهو كره لكم وعسى أن تكرهوا شيئا وهو خير لكم وعسى أن تحبوا شيئا وهو شر لكم والله يعلم وأنتم لا تعلمون
​

 

[swariffin]

hi , Thyme
did you read these verses before ? may be after reading them you can understand the context of verses of wars

60-8Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice.
60-9Allah only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them, and whoever makes friends with them, these are the unjust.

i hope if my point is clear enough ,
the verses of wars , (all of them) are talking about specific events
we as muslims can follow these verses of violence in one condition , if we found ourselfs in same situation of them

The problem is there is no “ONE CONDITION”. The word “ONE CONDITION” can be multi-interpreted. Not by muslims and non-muslims, also within the muslims.

 

[Thyme]

Thanks for these replies.

So Muslims can only go to war if they’ve been threatened first? Sorry, I found the Qu 'ran text confusing, but it may be the translation.

If they can only go to war if they’ve been threatened first, does history or the Qu 'ran say what those Jews, Christians and Pagans were doing that deserved it?

 

[jakasaki]

Thanks for these replies.

So Muslims can only go to war if they’ve been threatened first? Sorry, I found the Qu 'ran text confusing, but it may be the translation.

If they can only go to war if they’ve been threatened first, does history or the Qu 'ran say what those Jews, Christians and Pagans were doing that deserved it?

The Jews of Arabia living during mohamads time, they tested him and tested his “prophet” calling according to their books and tradition - mohamad failed the “prophet” calling of the Jews so they didn’t take him seriously.

Therefore mohamad had to silence them by attacking them.

The Pagans of mohamads time where doing there own thing… worshiping whatever…

And the prophet of islam didn’t like that, so he went after the pagans… just like he did with the Jews… but he didn’t stop there…

The Christians of Arabia, most of them where Gnostics and I’m not sure about how many Catholics were in his area…

He didn’t like them either - you know - Christ, the Crucifixion, Death & Resurection… he denied all of that and put that into the koran.

So, he went after the Christians -

On this death bed, he cursed the Christians & the Jews and stated that they should all be expelled from the Arabian penisula… And now it begins - the islamic muslim conquest.

The rest is all history… as they say!

 

[autdrew]

i hope if my point is clear enough ,
the verses of wars , (all of them) are talking about specific events
we as muslims can follow these verses of violence in one condition , if we found ourselfs in same situation of them

If this were true, there would not have been much of a reason to leave Arabia & attack other countries & people. It seems the profit was rejected by the others & felt justified in attacking them, not that his home was under threat. His example continued to be followed until almost all of the area was under muslim control. I dont see, historically, how the muslims were the victims & had to defend their homes against attacks. The muslims left Arabia & attacked others, burned buildings & crops & committed many grave acts. If your town fought to defend yourself, you were treated still harsher as an example. I cannot see that as defensive war, that is offensive war.

 

[elwill]

Thanks for these replies.

So Muslims can only go to war if they’ve been threatened first? Sorry, I found the Qu 'ran text confusing, but it may be the translation.

If they can only go to war if they’ve been threatened first, does history or the Qu 'ran say what those Jews, Christians and Pagans were doing that deserved it?

every war have it’s reasons and its details , which one you want to begin with ?

let me begin with the first battle ever " battle of Badr"

For 13 years after the advent of the prophetic mission of Muhammad (saw), he and his followers were tormented and tortured by the Quraish in Makkah. Finally, Muhammad (saw) left Makkah and migrated to Medina. Yet the Makkans did not stop tormenting the Muslims who had remained in Makkah and also did not let them leave Makkah and migrate somewhere else.

At the same time, the Makkan enemies of Islam had decided to put Medina under a -severe economic siege. They had forbidden all caravans from carrying provisions and foodstuffs to Medina. This siege lasted such a long time that the people of Medina were faced with many troubles and hardships and had to go as far as the coasts of the Red Sea to buy foodstuff.

Abu Jahl, too, wrote an extremely harsh and rude letter Muhammad (saw) and in that letter warned him to expect the attack of the Quraish.

It was on this occasion that Allah (SWT) said, ‘Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed, and most surely Allah is well able to assist them; those who have been expelled from their homes without a just cause except that they say: Our Lord is Allah. And had there not been Allah’s repelling some people by others, certainly there would have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques in which Allah’s name is much remembered; and surely Allah will help him who helps His cause; most surely Allah is Strong, Mighty.’ (Noble Qur’an, 22:39-40).

In the battle of Badr, they confronted the Quraish troops. Though the number of Muslim combatants (313) was one-third that of the mikkans forces (1000), the Muslims defeated them by their power of faith and by Allah’s (SWT) help

 

[tomarin]

I don’t think he knows the Qu 'ran well, but I secretly wondered what the Jews, Christians and Pagans of those days were doing that was so bad.

Remember that Mohammad was starting a new religious community in a context in which family and tribal loyalties were supreme. I think his neighbors and family members regarded what he was doing with extreme suspicion and alarm and tended to shun the new community he founded because it represented a break with tradition and with those tribal loyalties. I think it was his uncle who first challenged him using physical violence which ultimately led to the emergency departure of the entire Muslim community from Mecca.

When the Muslims were in their new home in Medina they made an alliance with a resident tribe of Arabs who had converted to Judaism. Mohammad intended to convince them to join his new religion, but they refused. Initially their relations were friendly and they co-existed but ultimately they had a falling out and went to war with each other. This also happened in the context of shifting political alliances among the various tribes that lived in Medina.

All that I know about relations with Christians during the early history of the Muslim state is that A. a peripatetic Christian monk is supposed to have confirmed that Mohammad’s revelations were legitimate; B. the emperor of Ethiopia offered Mohammad and his followers a safe haven around the time of the Hijira (or perhaps later); and C. a Muslim army clashed with a Byzantine Greek army in the Arabian peninsula during this early period, but I’m not sure if it was before or after Mohammad’s death.

 

[Booklover]

every war have it’s reasons and its details , which one you want to begin with ?

let me begin with the first battle ever " battle of Badr"

For 13 years after the advent of the prophetic mission of Muhammad (saw), he and his followers were tormented and tortured by the Quraish in Makkah. Finally, Muhammad (saw) left Makkah and migrated to Medina. Yet the Makkans did not stop tormenting the Muslims who had remained in Makkah and also did not let them leave Makkah and migrate somewhere else.

At the same time, the Makkan enemies of Islam had decided to put Medina under a -severe economic siege. They had forbidden all caravans from carrying provisions and foodstuffs to Medina. This siege lasted such a long time that the people of Medina were faced with many troubles and hardships and had to go as far as the coasts of the Red Sea to buy foodstuff.

Abu Jahl, too, wrote an extremely harsh and rude letter Muhammad (saw) and in that letter warned him to expect the attack of the Quraish.

It was on this occasion that Allah (SWT) said, ‘Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed, and most surely Allah is well able to assist them; those who have been expelled from their homes without a just cause except that they say: Our Lord is Allah. And had there not been Allah’s repelling some people by others, certainly there would have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques in which Allah’s name is much remembered; and surely Allah will help him who helps His cause; most surely Allah is Strong, Mighty.’ (Noble Qur’an, 22:39-40).

In the battle of Badr, they confronted the Quraish troops. Though the number of Muslim combatants (313) was one-third that of the mikkans forces (1000), the Muslims defeated them by their power of faith and by Allah’s (SWT) help

Myth: Muhammad was persecuted by the Meccans for preaching Islam

Myth: Muhammad was tortured by the Meccans

Myth: The Muslims suffered many deaths at the hands of Meccan persecutors

Myth: Muslims fought the Battle of Badr in self-defensehttp://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-badr.htm

Vickie

 

[Thyme]

Thanks, everyone for these answers.

I don’t like to shine negative light on Islam, but I’m trying to work out why so many people could think Muhammed is a prophet, but he lived such an inferior life to the prophets before him. I thought that I was understanding him wrong, but the more I learn about his life, the less I can accept him.

I feel bad that God is degraded in this way. No way would He ever permit the wars of Muhammed. A true prophet, obeying God would teach people the truth, with miracles as proof. If they refused to accept the message, the prophet would “shake the dust off his feet” and move to another town. Someone following 100% would even give what they own to their persecutors and be happy that they are being persecuted for their faith.

 

[elwill]

Thanks, everyone for these answers.

I don’t like to shine negative light on Islam, but I’m trying to work out why so many people could think Muhammed is a prophet, but he lived such an inferior life to the prophets before him. I thought that I was understanding him wrong, but the more I learn about his life, the less I can accept him.

I feel bad that God is degraded in this way. No way would He ever permit the wars of Muhammed. A true prophet, obeying God would teach people the truth, with miracles as proof. If they refused to accept the message, the prophet would “shake the dust off his feet” and move to another town. Someone following 100% would even give what they own to their persecutors and be happy that they are being persecuted for their faith.

will you use this criteria with all prophets or mohammed alone
i think that your criteria will means that all prophets engaged in wars are false prophets including mosas (pbuh)

Numbers 31:1-3
1Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 2“Take full vengeance for the sons of Israel on the Midianites; afterward you will be gathered to your people.” 3Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Arm men from among you for the war, that they may go against Midian to execute the LORD’S vengeance on Midian.

do you believe in the same God of mosas (pbuh) to be the true God and consequently what is you beliefs about prophet mosas whom his lord either permits him to war ?

 

[Thyme]

will you use this criteria with all prophets or mohammed alone
i think that your criteria will means that all prophets engaged in wars are false prophets including mosas (pbuh)

Numbers 31:1-3
1Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 2“Take full vengeance for the sons of Israel on the Midianites; afterward you will be gathered to your people.” 3Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Arm men from among you for the war, that they may go against Midian to execute the LORD’S vengeance on Midian.

do you believe in the same God of mosas (pbuh) to be the true God and consequently what is you beliefs about prophet mosas whom his lord either permits him to war ?

In the same book, it explains that the Midianites- influenced by Moabites- had turned to false Gods and sexual immorality. They were also planning on preventing the Israelites from expanding and spreading God’s Word and Moabite were trying to get Israelites to worship Baal.

God needed the keep the Messianic line in tact, but people were trying to get the Israelites to turn to idol worship.

Muhammed’s reason for going to war was simply because people didn’t accept him as a prophet and for the loot.

 

[elwill]

In the same book, it explains that the Midianites- influenced by Moabites- had turned to false Gods and sexual immorality. They were also planning on preventing the Israelites from expanding and spreading God’s Word and Moabite were trying to get Israelites to worship Baal.

God needed the keep the Messianic line in tact, but people were trying to get the Israelites to turn to idol worship.

Muhammed’s reason for going to war was simply because people didn’t accept him as a prophet and for the loot.

i believe that mohammed(pbuh) had the same reasons of mosas (pbuh) plus defense reasons

 

[FaithJoy]

I think not, Moses had a larger issue here. If Moses let the belief of God fade away to a false god,that would be a larger issue than what Muhammad faced. Example, if America faced total destruction verses America faces only a small war. In other words, God would not have his named taken “off” the earth. God made sure of it.

 

[Thyme]

i believe that mohammed(pbuh) had the same reasons of mosas (pbuh) plus defense reasons

People already believed in God- the Jews and Christians. They weren’t trying to make the Muslims believe in false gods, have orgies or make baby sacrifices to idols. Also, God had no Messianic lineage to keep intact.

They weren’t allowed to keep loot. If anyone did, God severely punished them- Muhammed kept his. Muhammed’s wars were nothing like the Israelites’.

 

[elwill]

People already believed in God- the Jews and Christians. They weren’t trying to make the Muslims believe in false gods, have orgies or make baby sacrifices to idols. Also, God had no Messianic lineage to keep intact.

They weren’t allowed to keep loot. If anyone did, God severely punished them- Muhammed kept his. Muhammed’s wars were nothing like the Israelites’.

Thyme, i really appereciate your way of discussion
but i can’t keep the line of discussion

can you specify for me specific wars which mohammed(pbuh) engaged in , so that we can discuss it’s reasons in details then find out if it differs than reasons of mosas (pbuh)