Why Was Pope John Paul II So Great?

[tafan2]

John Paul II was a truly unique man. He was, in no particular order: a phenomenal theologian and philosopher, a great geo-political leader, a truly saintly man, an ability to connect with people on a global scale, had an unparalleled appreciation and understanding of human dignity, extremely kind, likely a genius level of intelligence, and a mystic to top it all off. Any two of these qualities are rare in one person, three are almost unheard of. To have all of them?

 

[JanetF]

JP II and the children https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a71XavdE0wQ

I’m crying watching this one! He was indeed like Christ!

 

[1Lord1Faith]

Pope John Paul II has been credited with inspiring political change that not only led to the collapse of Communism in his native Poland and eventually all of Eastern Europe,

That’s what I said. Although I wouldn’t use the word “led” because the USSR collapsed under its own weight. It wasn’t because of the pope.

His influence on the smaller dictatorships no doubt had more of an impact as far as inspiring people to rise up for political change. But they weren’t communist dictatorships.

 

[JanetF]

That’s what I said. But the USSR collapsed under its own weight.

His influence on the smaller dictatorships no doubt had more of an impact as far as inspiring people to rise up for political change. But they weren’t communist dictatorships.

You should read more about this era. He was pivotal in the collapse of Communism in Eastern Europe.

 

[goout]

John Paul II was a truly unique man. He was, in no particular order: a phenomenal theologian and philosopher, a great geo-political leader, a truly saintly man, an ability to connect with people on a global scale, had an unparalleled appreciation and understanding of human dignity, extremely kind, likely a genius level of intelligence, and a mystic to top it all off. Any two of these qualities are rare in one person, three are almost unheard of. To have all of them?

And he was also a prodigious polyglot, which in itself is remarkable. He knew as many as 12 languages and depending on the source, could use 8 or so fluently. That is a commitment to Gospel communication.

And all of these gifts grew in a life of suffering and oppression. Lost his Mother at a young age. Father early adulthood. Nazis, communists murdering people and oppressing the Church. And God grew an awesome human being through all of that mess.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

He was pivotal in the collapse of Communism.

This is getting a little of topic, but you’d have to be more specific than just saying “Communism”. Communism is of course still alive and well.

 

[JanetF]

Thank you, I’ve edited my post

 

[tafan2]

No its not. The communist party is in power in 4 countries. Two of which their ruling party assumes the name of communism, but they are actually fascist societies (e.t. totalitarian government, private business allowed to exist and get rich as long as they do what the government says). The other two are dismal failures. One cannot say that communism is alive and well with a straight face.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I do not challenge the authority of the Church to do this, but I am less than enthusiastic about the contemporary rush to canonize saints so soon after their death — not just JPII, but Mother Teresa and Padre Pio.

OK, I’ll buy that. I did argue both ways in my post.

Another thing to be considered is that for contemporary Catholics, the Church basically “began in 1962” or thereabouts. In the eyes of young people, there has never been anything but the vernacular Novus Ordo Mass, EMHCs, CITH, contemporary hymns, and a fuzzy morality that basically falls into lockstep with the larger society and has as its mantra “we cannot judge”. This is not good, but it is what it is. Modern people relate far better to saints they have heard a lot about, saints who have lived in recent years. And Lord knows we need all the intercessors and exemplars of holiness that we can get. If a saint was canonized quickly, say 100-200 years ago, people aren’t generally aware of that, and to them it is something “way back in history”. An entire millennium (circa 400-1400) is summarily dismissed as “the Dark Ages” and people don’t give it a lot of thought. I prefer the term “the Age of Faith”.

 

[tafan2]

I have to disagree with this also. The USSR and Eastern Europe could have very well gone the way of China. Indeed, one can look at what Li Peng did in China and easily see that Gorbachev could have led the USSR, and by extension Eastern Europe, in the same direction. And when Gorbachev left, a more totalitarian version could have taken over, just as in China. Not direct parallels between Li Peng and Gorbachev, but close enough to imagine an alternate history.
But that did not work, and it did not work because of two world leaders, Pope John Paul II and Ronald Reagan, although the impact of John Paul II was the greater of the two.

 

[tafan2]

So if you want to complain about fast canonizations, that’s your prerogative, but don’t call it a contemporary trend, because it’s not.

But the trend to canonize so many recent popes is certainly contemporary. Not that John Paull II should not have been canonized, I am most certainly not saying that.

 

[Nelka]

Polish bishops call for John Paul II to be named a doctor of the Church Catholic News

Polish bishops call for John Paul II to be named a doctor of the Church. Poznan, Poland, Oct 22, 2019 / 04:07 pm (CNA).- The Polish Bishops’ Conference has asked Pope Francis to name St. John Paul II a patron of Europe and doctor of the Church. https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...l-ii-to-be-named-a-doctor-of-the-church-80686

He may become a doctor of the church soon.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...l-ii-to-be-named-a-doctor-of-the-church-80686

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I have to disagree with this also. The USSR and Eastern Europe could have very well gone the way of China. Indeed, one can look at what Li Peng did in China and easily see that Gorbachev could have led the USSR, and by extension Eastern Europe, in the same direction. And when Gorbachev left, a more totalitarian version could have taken over, just as in China. Not direct parallels between Li Peng and Gorbachev, but close enough to imagine an alternate history.

I don’t see how that could have happened. The Chinese have manufacture and marketing of cheap, reasonably good-quality consumer items down to a science, and they marshal their entire economy into being one giant mercantile producer for the world. The Soviets didn’t do this. With a few exceptions, their consumer goods were of poor, shoddy quality, and were not something the rest of the world would willingly buy if they had an alternative. Take a Soviet-made radio, and a Chinese-made radio, and you’ll see what I mean. (I have examples of both. I’ve heard good things about Soviet ice cream, but I never had the pleasure of partaking, and you can’t build an economy on ice cream.) Simply put, the Soviets didn’t understand capitalistic business and commerce. Add to this that the West basically bankrupted them by forcing them to keep up in the arms race.

If Gorbachev et al had initiated a campaign to produce quality goods, market them worldwide, let the free market determine their value, and get the rest of the world in debt to them, then they’d have had something. But that would have been capitalism. The Chinese are not so much Communists as they are state market capitalists with socialist characteristics. I don’t go to bed at night thinking that the Chinese might nuke us. You don’t kill your best customers.

 

[Rubee]

I loved him! My beloved pope

‘Pope’ being followed by a name other than John Paul II at mass was a very strange experience for me; He had been Pope my entire life when he died. I almost felt like no one else could be pope I’m sad to discover I missed his day yesterday. I was very afraid and remembering him might have reminded me to ‘be not afraid’ and say ‘totus tuus’ to Our Lord. I miss him so much! I believe I’d never have seriously studied Catholicism without a Pope John Paul II.

I heard a story from a priest in my home city about one of his visits. They said he was perpetually before the Eucharist in all his free time. So much, the cleaning ladies were inconvenienced by his use of the chapel His sanctity was beyond reproach. I’ll ask him a favour even though I forgot to talk to him yesterday.

 

[goout]

Polish bishops call for John Paul II to be named a doctor of the Church

He may become a doctor of the church soon.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...l-ii-to-be-named-a-doctor-of-the-church-80686

I think after the Church is done swaying side to side some…and it will take a couple of papal successions, the Church will settle on JP2’s pontificate as a solid perspective for a few centuries.
He has such a well rounded pastoral presence. He can’t be stereotyped as either conservative nor liberal. He is traditional in the best sense of the word, and at the same time the Spirit breathes fresh through him. Awesome.

 

[TheLittleLady]

For me, his writing on the redemptive value of suffering is pivotal to all Christians.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

But the trend to canonize so many recent popes is certainly contemporary. Not that John Paull II should not have been canonized, I am most certainly not saying that.

I will agree with you that I can see where people might have some issues with canonizing Pope John XXIII so fast without a second miracle, which surely would have come along sooner or later, and it seems like they could have simply promoted devotion to him and waited for it. I can also see where someone would argue that Pope Paul VI had not done much of anything worthy of canonization, but he did come up with the required 2 miracles.

I do NOT doubt that these men are in heaven and I’m sure many were witnesses to their personal holiness, but it does look odd to see canonizations of Popes who didn’t exactly have mobs shouting “Santo Subito” being speeded ahead of the many other worthy holy people in the pipeline, some of whose causes have been pending for a much longer time. It also looks odd when past Popes who from all accounts seemed very holy, such as Pope Leo XIII, do not even seem to have an active cause. In the end I must just trust that God is guiding his Church and that if it’s fruitful for my favorite non-papal holy people to be canonized, or my favorite past Popes who aren’t saints yet, then that will happen at the opportune time.

 

[tafan2]

I agree it would not have been the same, nor likely as “successful” as China. But look at how Russia has done since then: oligarchs in charge of an economy, very corrupt, lots of oil, a semi-totalitarian government. Like I said, not exactly parallel. But certainly the communist party could have stayed in power while this happened. In point of fact, there was only around 5 years where Russia was attempting to be liberalized (91-96). Gorbechev could have opened it up to the west, allowed more and more freedom, but kept the communist in power. The state apparatus that Putin has largely had to recreate (ie KGB) would have still been there ready to go.

It was not bound to collapse.

 

[on_the_hill]

[

I do not challenge the authority of the Church to do this, but I am less than enthusiastic about the contemporary rush to canonize saints so soon after their death — not just JPII, but Mother Teresa and Padre Pio. I have a deep devotion to Padre Pio but, just off the top of my head, I have to think that 100-150 years should pass before the Church canonizes a saint. On the other hand, it is advantageous to have people still living who can produce evidence for canonization, and whose testimony can be recorded by modern media and scrutinized by contemporaries. So I just don’t know. As anyone can attest to who reads my poor comments here on CAF, I tend to skew traditional in just about everything, and traditionally the Church waited a long time to canonize, sometimes never doing so. And Lord knows we need as many exemplars of holiness as we can get in these chaotic times.

Incidentally, how did the designation of “John Paul the Great” get started? Not challenging, just wondering.

I agree with you on all of these.
Social media and the WWW played huge roles, I’m sure.

 

[PatK63]

I read through the 38 post and want to say I agree with all the good things said. Then add my thoughts. St. JPII was very charismatic he loved people and it showed. I believe after JPI who was very charismatic they could only elect JPII the first non Italian I 500 years. JPII traveled extensively making the church visible throughout the world. Pope Paul VI was the first modern Pope to leave Italy but PPIi projected the Papal Visit.
He published more encyclicals than any other Pope approved more canonizations! He started world Youth days!

There is a process for declaring saints but the Holy Spirit is in charge. Make no mistake about that!