Why was Salome (John's mother) not immaculately conceived?

[abdulmasih]

She was Mary’s younger sister. I’m actually very curious because Mary was conceived without lust (per the revelations of Saint Bridget). Not to disparage Saint Anne, but I really only see two possibilities:

1. She, too was immaculately conceived (probably not, since John and James sinned)
2. Lust was somehow (note I said SOMEHOW) involved in her conception.

It just doesnt make sense.

 

[Catholic1954]

She was Mary’s younger sister. I’m actually very curious because Mary was conceived without lust (per the revelations of Saint Bridget). Not to disparage Saint Anne, but I really only see two possibilities:

1. She, too was immaculately conceived (probably not, since John and James sinned)
2. Lust was somehow (note I said SOMEHOW) involved in her conception.

It just doesnt make sense.

Are you referring to Mary the mother of Jesus? She had no siblings and was immaculate conceived, meaning without Orginal Sin, but in the normal biological way. Salome, the mother of James and John, was related to Jesus on Joseph’s side of the family.

 

[abdulmasih]

Are you referring to Mary the mother of Jesus? She had no siblings and was immaculate conceived, meaning without Orginal Sin, but in the normal biological way. Salome, the mother of James and John, was related to Jesus on Joseph’s side of the family.

Actually, St. AC Emmerich says Salome was Mary’s sister. They also had a middle sibling.

 

[Corki]

Actually, St. AC Emmerich says Salome was Mary’s sister. They also had a middle sibling.

Anna Catherine Emmerich is not a cannonized saint. She is Blessed Anna Catherine Emmerich. Her beatification was based on her personal piety and not on any formal recognition of her writings. The Church has never recognized any siblings of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

The Blessed Virgin Mary was conceived by way of normal sexual relations of her parents. Her Immaculate Conception does refer to the manner in which she was conceived but rather that she was conceived without sin.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

I have seen several posts recently alleging or proposing that John the Baptist was both sinless and immaculately conceived. Now this concerning his mother. I sincerely don’t understand this seeming push for a near-divinization of John. Where is this coming from?

 

[CB_Catholic]

I have seen several posts recently alleging or proposing that John the Baptist was both sinless and immaculately conceived. Now this concerning his mother. I sincerely don’t understand this seeming push for a near-divinization of John. Where is this coming from?

I agree, plus I would like to know why people are placing so much authority on private revelation instead of long-standing tradition or Church teaching.

 

[CB_Catholic]

She was Mary’s younger sister. I’m actually very curious because Mary was conceived without lust (per the revelations of Saint Bridget). Not to disparage Saint Anne, but I really only see two possibilities:

1. She, too was immaculately conceived (probably not, since John and James sinned)
2. Lust was somehow (note I said SOMEHOW) involved in her conception.

It just doesnt make sense.

It does not make sense to say Mary was conceived in LUST, which is a sin. Marital sexual relations are not lustful, they are God-given. To say that Jacob and Anne were lustful when they had the relations from whence Mary was conceived is very disrespectful toward them and God’s intended way of human reproduction. IF St. Bridget said that, she is dead wrong. Saints are not infallible, and some have made some pretty weird statements and done some weird things.

 

[CB_Catholic]

Actually, St. AC Emmerich says Salome was Mary’s sister. They also had a middle sibling.

The Bible, which is the Word of God does not say Salome was Mary’s sister, although in the Gospel of John, ch.19, vs. 25 it does say that Mary, the mother of Jesus was there with her sister.

 

[St_Francis]

She was Mary’s younger sister. I’m actually very curious because Mary was conceived without lust (per the revelations of Saint Bridget). Not to disparage Saint Anne, but I really only see two possibilities:

1. She, too was immaculately conceived (probably not, since John and James sinned)
2. Lust was somehow (note I said SOMEHOW) involved in her conception.

It just doesnt make sense.

The sin that was not involved in the conception of Mary was original sin. IOW, Mary was conceived with no original sin in her soul.

Married people can engage in the marital act without sinning, and children can even be conceived through that process, but the children will still have original sin on their souls.

God’s revelation to us was closed when the Apostle John died. That which even pious people may tell us, even as the result of a *private *revelation, is not a part of Church teaching and we are not required in any way to believe it.

There are lots of better things to meditate on, if you are looking for material for mental prayer.

 

[Usagi]

Right. Mary, personally, was protected from original sin when God created her soul.

It has nothing to do with what Sts. Anne and Joachim did or had in their hearts at the time of Mary’s conception (though we have no reason to believe they were having anything but pure and God-blessed marital relations).

Because the Immaculate Conception does not depend on any action of the parents involved, but only on God, there is no need to figure out what happened differently in the cases of Mary’s siblings.

(To the person who had the question about the odd exaltation of John the Baptist, there is a pious belief that he was cleansed of original sin in the womb, when he and Jesus “met” for the first time in their mothers’ wombs, but that is still not the same thing as an immaculate conception.)

Usagi

 

[Chatter163]

I have seen several posts recently alleging or proposing that John the Baptist was both sinless and immaculately conceived. Now this concerning his mother. I sincerely don’t understand this seeming push for a near-divinization of John. Where is this coming from?

The Church has always believed St. John the Baptist to be without sin in his earthly life, though he was not immaculately conceived, but sanctified in the womb at the Visitation. That is why the Church celebrates his nativity, rather than his death, as his major feast–only Our Lady’s nativity is also celebrated among the saints, for the same reason. This is why St. John is mentioned immediately after Our Lady and the angels in the old Confiteor and in the litany of the saints, even before St. Joseph. This is nothing new; it has always been that way. I realize that many Catholics today are not aware of this aspect of their faith, but that does not make this something new, or an attempt at “near-divination”; it is simply the Church’s teaching. No, it has not been declared dogma, but neither was the Assumption until 1950, or the Immaculate Conception before 1854, but these were still the teaching of the Church prior to those two definitions.

 

[twf]

The Church has always believed St. John the Baptist to be without sin in his earthly life, though he was not immaculately conceived, but sanctified in the womb at the Visitation. That is why the Church celebrates his nativity, rather than his death, as his major feast–only Our Lady’s nativity is also celebrated among the saints, for the same reason. This is why St. John is mentioned immediately after Our Lady and the angels in the old Confiteor and in the litany of the saints, even before St. Joseph. This is nothing new; it has always been that way. I realize that many Catholics today are not aware of this aspect of their faith, but that does not make this something new, or an attempt at “near-divination”; it is simply the Church’s teaching. No, it has not been declared dogma, but neither was the Assumption until 1950, or the Immaculate Conception before 1854, but these were still the teaching of the Church prior to those two definitions.

Exactly. I think there is some debate as to whether or not St. John actually sinned during his earthly life, but he was most certainly born without original sin, having been “filled with the Holy Spirit” even in the womb, as Scripture itself testifies. It saddens me that so many Catholics are no longer aware of how important St. John the Baptist is. He remains very important in the Church’s liturgy. Many traditional depictions of heaven show St. John seated in glory to Our Lord’s left, with Our Lady to His right.

 

[Melissa]

That’s what I was taught – there are three birthdays on the Church calendar–and that the common trait is being free from sin at birth, although the three are different in other ways (Jesus, as God; Mary, the Immaculate Conception; and St John the Baptist being cleansed from sin when the mothers met [resulting in the reaction of leaping for joy]).

I also understand the Immaculate Conception as having more to do with what the Blessed Virgin Mary’s role was to be (remembering that God, being outside time, would already know her response) than what her parents did/thought. So it’s a particular favor granted to someone who is to have a significant role–otherwise it becomes more like some mechanical magical thing to determine whether any baby is going to be conceived with/without sin.

 

[GangGreen]

It really doesn’t matter whether Mary had siblings. The fact that she was conceived immaculately was a grace given by God for that particular birth. It’s not that her parents were granted some sort of grace where every child would be born via an immaculate conception. Only Mary was given that grace because she was chosen by God to give birth to Our Lord.

 

[thistle]

Actually, St. AC Emmerich says Salome was Mary’s sister. They also had a middle sibling.

Why do you base your arguments on private revelations (this is now a common theme in other threads you open). Private revelations are NOT Church teachings and nor do they add anything to the Deposit of Faith.
Base your arguments and discussions on actual Church teachings.
Forgive me but my impression from all your threads is that you appear to put more weight on private revelations than what the Church actually teaches.

 

[abdulmasih]

Why do you base your arguments on private revelations (this is now a common theme in other threads you open). Private revelations are NOT Church teachings and nor do they add anything to the Deposit of Faith.
Base your arguments and discussions on actual Church teachings.
Forgive me but my impression from all your threads is that you appear to put more weight on private revelations than what the Church actually teaches.

The church doesn’t teach one way or the other and Emmerich was a good Catholic. If someone I trust fully to be good and a Catholic tells me something, I will believe her. It is my right to do so.

 

[thistle]

The church doesn’t teach one way or the other and Emmerich was a good Catholic. If someone I trust fully to be good and a Catholic tells me something, I will believe her. It is my right to do so.

Yes it is your right to believe her. However, if the Church has no teaching on a specific issue then it is not important and completely irrelevant to our salvation.
By the way, I do not believe the revelations of Anne Emmerich. She wrote that after Jesus was arrested the soldiers threw him off a bridge. That is nonsense.

 

[abdulmasih]

Yes it is your right to believe her. However, if the Church has no teaching on a specific issue then it is not important and completely irrelevant to our salvation.
By the way, I do not believe the revelations of Anne Emmerich. She wrote that after Jesus was arrested the soldiers threw him off a bridge. That is nonsense.

You disparaged a good Catholic, a blessed seeress, someone I trust and praised. I take GREAT offense.

 

[ccmcmg]

It does not make sense to say Mary was conceived in LUST, which is a sin. Marital sexual relations are not lustful, they are God-given. To say that Jacob and Anne were lustful when they had the relations from whence Mary was conceived is very disrespectful toward them and God’s intended way of human reproduction. IF St. Bridget said that, she is dead wrong. Saints are not infallible, and some have made some pretty weird statements and done some weird things.

Lust and desire are two different things. I would hope that her parents desired each other!

 

[thistle]

You disparaged a good Catholic, a blessed seeress, someone I trust and praised. I take GREAT offense.

It doesn’t matter to me if you take great offence or not. I obey the Church and not you. The Church says I do not have to believe Anne Emmerich or any private revelation.