Why was the prayer to St.Michael excluded from the mass in the 1960's?

[Harmony1988]

This issue gets more confusing by the minute.

So essentially whatever addresses the demons directly, i.e. ‘you’ - is not allowed by the ordinary, but only the religious orders.

However, a general prayer to St. Michael asking for his intercession, i.e. the short prayer that we all know is acceptable as it doesn’t involve addressing spirits directly, but only asking St. Michael.

Correct?

 

[AJV]

This issue gets more confusing by the minute.

So essentially whatever addresses the demons directly, i.e. ‘you’ - is not allowed by the ordinary, but only the religious orders.

Not even priests should undertake to address the devil directly without proper training and preparation. Such is the feature of an exorcism. As Scripture records

Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists undertook to pronounce the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, "I adjure you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches…But the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?” And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, mastered all of them, and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. -Acts 19

Harmony1988:

However, a general prayer to St. Michael asking for his intercession, i.e. the short prayer that we all know is acceptable as it doesn’t involve addressing spirits directly, but only asking St. Michael.

Correct?

:yup:

 

[Harmony1988]

Thanks

 

[CatholicCid]

There are longer versions which do not have the imprecatory simple exorcism which Leo XIII wrote and approved.

Ah, that is the case here then, as it is different and shorter then the full prayer listed. I do recall now the Priest saying it was a longer version, but NOT the exorcism version.

Thanks for the answer.

 

[SFD]

catherina:

From a Catholic site, here is the prayer to St. Michael that was siad by THE PRIEST after Low Mass between 1886 and the 1960s:

“St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle! Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do thou, O Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, cast into Hell, Satan, and all the other evil spirits who roam about the world seeking the ruin of souls.”

It was not prayed by the parishoners. It was prayed by the priest.

This is wrong. It is in all lay Missals. It says “priest and people” say the prayer. The 1945 missal has it…I’m looking at it right now.

SFD

Catherina, can you at least admit when you are wrong? From which “site” did you get that piece of misinformation?

SFD

 

[AJV]

Catherina, can you at least admit when you are wrong? From which “site” did you get that piece of misinformation?

SFD

SFD, catharina is not exactly wrong. Neither are you when it comes to that.

Your 1945 missal takes one position, catherina’s missal or source takes another. I myself have a missal which is judiciously silent on it, but indicates it along the lines of catherina’s idea.

When the Leonine Prayers came out, there was a question of how to recite them. Only in one case was it evident- that of the collect (and even there, there were questions of posture, etc.)

Broadly speaking there were two “main” ways (and you could find intermediates between these as well). The question revolved around what was meant by “cum populo” in the instructions.

1. The people (or at least, the server) responded with the “Sancta Maria”, said the “Salve Regina” (and the St. Michael’s prayer when it appeared) together with the priest, and responded Amen to the oration.
   A variation on this interpreted “cum populo” more strictly and the people said the entire “Ave Maria” together with the priest

The reason behind this interpretation was that the Leonine prayers of 1884 and 1886 were formerly prescribed in the Papal States and that was how they were recited.

1. The priest said all the prayers and the congregation/server replied only “Amen”

Practice (1) was what was observed in many places, most especially Rome, which which regarded s the determiner of such practices. Consequently, some lay missals (like yours) give the requisite instruction.

Other missals, not seeking to decide the question, judiously printed a sole red “R” before the “Amen” at the end of each prayer, indicating that the people should make the response “Amen”.

For the Sacred Heart invocation, the decree indicated that the priest should say it; however, when the Congregation of Rites was asked if the people might respond “miserere nobis”, they replied affirmatively.

 

[AJV]

Catherina, can you at least admit when you are wrong? From which “site” did you get that piece of misinformation?

SFD

SFD, catharina is not exactly wrong. Neither are you when it comes to that.

Your 1945 missal takes one position, catherina’s missal or source takes another. I myself have a missal which is judiciously silent on it, but indicates it along the lines of catherina’s idea.

When the Leonine Prayers came out, there was a question of how to recite them. Only in one case was it evident- that of the collect (and even there, there were questions of posture, etc.)

Broadly speaking there were two “main” ways (and you could find intermediates between these as well). The question revolved around what was meant by “cum populo” in the instructions.

1. The people (or at least, the server) responded with the “Sancta Maria”, said the “Salve Regina” (and the St. Michael’s prayer when it appeared) together with the priest, and responded Amen to the oration.
   A variation on this interpreted “cum populo” more strictly and the people said the entire “Ave Maria” together with the priest

The reason behind this interpretation was that the Leonine prayers of 1884 and 1886 were formerly prescribed in the Papal States. This was how the prayers had been recited in the Papal states.

1. The priest said all the prayers and the congregation/server replied only “Amen”

Practice (1) was what was observed in many places, most especially Rome, which which regarded s the determiner of such practices. Consequently, some lay missals (like yours) give the requisite instruction.

Other missals, not seeking to decide the question, judiciously printed a sole red “R” before the “Amen” at the end of each prayer, indicating that the people should make the response “Amen”.

For the Sacred Heart invocation, the decree indicated that the priest should say it; however, when the Congregation of Rites was asked if the people might respond “miserere nobis”, they replied affirmatively.

 

[catharina]

SFD, catharina is not exactly wrong. Neither are you when it comes to that.

Your 1945 missal takes one position, catherina’s missal or source takes another. I myself have a missal which is judiciously silent on it, but indicates it along the lines of catherina’s idea.

When the Leonine Prayers came out, there was a question of how to recite them. Only in one case was it evident- that of the collect (and even there, there were questions of posture, etc.)

Broadly speaking there were two “main” ways (and you could find intermediates between these as well). The question revolved around what was meant by “cum populo” in the instructions.

1. The people (or at least, the server) responded with the “Sancta Maria”, said the “Salve Regina” (and the St. Michael’s prayer when it appeared) together with the priest, and responded Amen to the oration.
   A variation on this interpreted “cum populo” more strictly and the people said the entire “Ave Maria” together with the priest

The reason behind this interpretation was that the Leonine prayers of 1884 and 1886 were formerly prescribed in the Papal States and that was how they were recited.

1. The priest said all the prayers and the congregation/server replied only “Amen”

Practice (1) was what was observed in many places, most especially Rome, which which regarded s the determiner of such practices. Consequently, some lay missals (like yours) give the requisite instruction.

Other missals, not seeking to decide the question, judiously printed a sole red “R” before the “Amen” at the end of each prayer, indicating that the people should make the response “Amen”.

For the Sacred Heart invocation, the decree indicated that the priest should say it; however, when the Congregation of Rites was asked if the people might respond “miserere nobis”, they replied affirmatively.

Thank you so much, AJV. I’m inclined to ignore challenges coming from sfd since engaging him can often result in his claims for sedevacantism (he is one) and the need to recognize only Popes up to and including Pius XI. However, as you said, some sites reference it as I did and I have the additional benefit of my oew living memory. That is, I remember the Masses when it was said as you’ve described (from 1950 to the late 1960s). The priest led the prayers. The people responded “Amen.” I didn’t travel the world to check out the usage but I’m fairly clear on how it was done in the Archdiocese of Chicago in those years.

 

[AJV]

1. The priest said all the prayers and the congregation/server replied only “Amen”

Other missals, not seeking to decide the question, judiciously printed a sole red “R” before the “Amen” at the end of each prayer, indicating that the people should make the response “Amen”.

I wnated to revise this part to be more precise by the edit wondow expired…the “R. Amen” was not printed after the Salve Regina…there the rubricated R. was printed after the response “R. Ut digni efficiamur…”. Nothing was printed for the Sacred Heart invocation when that was permitted by St. Pius X