Why wasn't the "Original Creation" made the same as the New Creation one day will be?

[RealisticCatholic]

I’ve heard some offer this as an explanation. It would just mean God set us up in a world in which he knew we would fall.

 

[RealisticCatholic]

P.S. As some users have posted, the Catechism pretty much already answers this question. The Catechism tells us God chose to create an imperfect world in a “state of journeying.”

 

[Gorgias]

I’ve heard some offer this as an explanation. It would just mean God set us up in a world in which he knew we would fall.

You realize that this is what the Church teaches, right? God wasn’t surprised that we would fall, and so His plan always included Jesus’ incarnation in order to allow us to attain to eternal life in Heaven.

“You’re gonna fail” sounds harsh and unloving at first… until you realize that what it really means is, “You’re not gonna be able to do this on your own, so I’m going to send My Son to redeem you and lead you to heaven”…

P.S. As some users have posted, the Catechism pretty much already answers this question. The Catechism tells us God chose to create an imperfect world in a “state of journeying.”

Yep!

Does that present a particular difficulty for you, given that God not only knew the ‘problem’ but also provided the ‘solution’?

 

[RealisticCatholic]

The issue is that there are a bunch of learned Catholics out there, even on CAF, even on this thread, that say physical evil happened due to the Fall in the sense that before there was the “garden” and after there was the “thorns.”

I maintain Genesis’ language is trying to attempt to provide an account for why humanity suffers. It’s not trying to literally tells us thorns (for example) only evolved after the Fall.

In other words, I have a difficulty with people in the Church trying to convey the truth in mythological terms. In ways that sound unscientific, etc.

If I had a dime for every time I heard the question “If pain in childbirth happens because of the Fall, then did Mary experience child birth?” Etc.

This kind of thinking just gets it wrong in my opinion.

 

[Gorgias]

The issue is that there are a bunch of learned Catholics out there, even on CAF, even on this thread, that say physical evil happened due to the Fall in the sense that before there was the “garden” and after there was the “thorns.”

So… your problem is that there are folks who are overly literal? Whose thinking is more linear than others’ is?

Heck… there are “learned Catholics out there, even on CAF”, who think that there really was a talking serpent.

Meh… in the grand scheme of things, such misunderstandings aren’t really critical, IMHO. We all believe the same thing (even if some are more literal and linear in their take on things)…

 

[RealisticCatholic]

I mean it’s not something I chew my nails over on a daily basis. But I do think that this topic, in some ways, touches on the very essence of the Christian Faith. And if it is presented in an unscientific or unreasonable manner, it can certainly deter people.

 

[Gorgias]

And if it is presented in an unscientific or unreasonable manner, it can certainly deter people.

Yep!

That was one of Augustine’s points, in his essay On the Literal Meaning of Genesis:
St Augustine:

There is knowledge to be had, after all, about the earth, about the sky, about the other elements of this world… And it frequently happens that even non-Christians will have knowledge of this sort in a way that they can substantiate with scientific arguments or experiments. Now it is quite disgraceful and disastrous, something to be on one’s guard against at all costs, that they should ever hear Christians spouting what they claim our Christian literature has to say on these topics, and talking such nonsense that they can scarcely contain their laughter when they see them to be … wide of the mark. And what is so vexing is … that our authors should be assumed by outsiders to have held such views…

Whenever, you see, they catch out some members of the Christian community making mistakes on a subject which they know inside out… on what grounds are they going to trust those books on the resurrection of the dead and the hope of eternal life and the kingdom of heaven, when they suppose [that] they include any number of mistakes and fallacies on matters which they themselves have been able to master either by experiment or by the surest of calculations?

 

[Aloysium]

Reason informs us differently I suppose.

If one takes the perspective that God is right here and now, where he was at our conception, at our death bed and beyond, one can visualize all creation streaming from the one Source, Existence itself, Divine eternal Love. Those streams of light, which He brings into existence, we have conceptualizer as angels, who can choose to do or not do His will. Through their actions, they are able to return the love by which they exist, and thereby perpetually they sing of His glory. Those who rebelled, brought about the fall of nature, which we were designed to fix. We do this in the Galapagos, where we are trying very hard to keep species going in spite of the ravages of random events and “natural selection”. We succumbed to the seduction of evil, further casting creation into the chaos of self-directed will, running counter to the primary imperative of love. In and through Jesus Christ, we are able to fulfill our destiny.

A very odd way to see things I suppose; there’s no other way to express what I see as a fundamental truth.

 

[Gabika50]

The question: why-wasnt-the-original-creation-made-the-same-as-the-new-creation-one-day-will-be?
To make room for the largest room in the world- room for improvement! What we make of ourselves will be our gift to God!