Why we baptize infants

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Regenhund:
I’m pretty surprised by that. :confused: Considering the benefit to the child in Grace, I have trouble understanding why the parents lack of faith or sincerity should have any bearing whatsoever.

I remember hearing about a grandmother who wanted to covertly have her grandson baptised because she knew the parents wouldn’t bother. I can’t recall whether the priest gave in to her wishes or not, but I wonder what most priest’s reaction would be.
Yeah, I would hate to think of the baby dying unbaptized. It seems unfair to deprive the child of that grace due to the child’s parents’ lack of faith. We could put the child’s salvation in jeopardy.

Is there an apologist out there we can give us a more detailed explanation?
 
Would it seem reasonable that Original Sin would be expiated in Purgatory by the child if he dies young without baptims. Thus, Baptizing an infant protects it from purgatory if it dies early.

Surely, it pleases God to create and save souls and it has been said that the fragrance of an infant (due to its purity) rises to His very throne.
 
Yesterday (May 21) this very subject appeared on Catholic Answers Live on the program Tough Questions From Non-Catholilcs.

Check it out!

:bowdown: Glory be to Jesus Christ, Glory to Him Forever! :bowdown:
 
What are the earliest references to regenerative infant baptism? The decontextualied and invalidly exegeted passages given above don’t teach it.

I’ve been looking in Clement, Polycarp, the Didache, and Justin Martyr. I’m not finding it. Where can I find it? I’m already as far from the apostles as FDR was from the founding of this republic. A lot can happen and become confused in that time.

Can someone help me here with references?
 
Joey Storer:
Would it seem reasonable that Original Sin would be expiated in Purgatory by the child if he dies young without baptims. Thus, Baptizing an infant protects it from purgatory if it dies early.

Surely, it pleases God to create and save souls and it has been said that the fragrance of an infant (due to its purity) rises to His very throne.
The thing is, I understand why the church might not let the parents have the baptism if they are praticing thier faith. However I understand also the worry of if the child dies before the baptism to wash the original sin away. A lay person can baptize someone in grave instances, i.e. a child that might be in the hospital without a lot of time to live. It must be done with water and in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It will be a valid baptism. There was someone on a different thread that baptized her son in the bathroom sink because her husband forbid he to have him baptized. Later a conditional baptism was done because there was no certificate, but it still was a valid baptism.
 
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Puzzled:
What are the earliest references to regenerative infant baptism? The decontextualied and invalidly exegeted passages given above don’t teach it.

I’ve been looking in Clement, Polycarp, the Didache, and Justin Martyr. I’m not finding it. Where can I find it? I’m already as far from the apostles as FDR was from the founding of this republic. A lot can happen and become confused in that time.

Can someone help me here with references?
Even if you cannot find it in Early Church Fathers. Suffice it to say that we either trust the authority of the church (i.e. believe that the Church is being led by the Holy Spirit) in matters of doctrine, dogma, faith and morals, or we don’t. If we don’t then we have to keep re-inventing the wheel, if we do then we have peace knowing that if we follow the teachings of Christ’s Church we need not fear.

I can give you plenty of “church authority” references from the fathers – and plenty to identify which “church” – if you need them.

God Bless.
RP
 
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Puzzled:
What are the earliest references to regenerative infant baptism? The decontextualied and invalidly exegeted passages given above don’t teach it.
I’ve been looking in Clement, Polycarp, the Didache, and Justin Martyr. I’m not finding it. Where can I find it? I’m already as far from the apostles as FDR was from the founding of this republic. A lot can happen and become confused in that time.

Can someone help me here with references?

Have you looked in Irenaeus’ Against Heresies Book 2 (Irenaeus, a disciple of Polycarp, who was a disciple of St John the Evangelist) writes
Irenaeus -- Against Heresies:
He (Jesus) came to save all through himself–all, I say, who through him are reborn in God–infants and children and youths and old men."

I would submit that reborn = baptized and don’t think we need a lot of exegetical and contextual analysis to come to that conclusion, but if you want more let me know, I will keep looking. J

God Bless

RP
 
Something that I believe follows on from the OP, since the Catholic church does not withhold the sacrament of baptism from babies, why does it subsequently withhold from them the sacrament of the eucharist?
John 6:53-58:
Jesus therefore said to them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Unless ye shall have eaten the flesh of the Son of man, and drunk his blood, ye have no life in yourselves. 54 He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood has life eternal, and I will raise him up at the last day: 55 for my flesh is truly food and my blood is truly drink. 56 He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood dwells in me and I in him. 57 As the living Father has sent me and I live on account of the Father, he also who eats me shall live also on account of me. 58 This is the bread which has come down out of heaven. Not as the fathers ate and died: he that eats this bread shall live for ever.
Why are infants not permitted to experience the fullness of life in the Catholic church?

John.
 
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prodromos:
Something that I believe follows on from the OP, since the Catholic church does not withhold the sacrament of baptism from babies, why does it subsequently withhold from them the sacrament of the eucharist?

Why are infants not permitted to experience the fullness of life in the Catholic church?

John.
The Eastern Catholic Church confers the Holy Mysteries (what the Latins refer to as “Sacraments”) of Baptism, Chrismation (Latin “Confirmation”) and Holy Eucharist upon infants (and adults) all during the same ceremony. The belief is that once an individual is welcomed into the Church by virtue of his/her baptism, that individual is immediately entitled to the fullness of graces that are available to them, just as John suggests, most notably all three of the Sacraments of Initiation.

The practice of Eastern Catholic infants and toddlers appearing in the Communion line while visiting Roman Catholic Churches has, understandably, been known to raise some eyebrows among the RC faithful, the EMHCs and even, in some cases, the RC priest! It must be remembered, however, that these children are *Catholic, *and in full communion with the Holy Father in Rome. Their reception of Holy Communion, despite their youthful age, is a practice that is completely appropriate and fully sanctioned by the Holy See.

a pilgrim
 
a pilgrim:
Their reception of Holy Communion, despite their youthful age, is a practice that is completely appropriate and fully sanctioned by the Holy See.
So are those who are not Eastern Catholic allowed to bring their children forward to receive Holy Communion, or is it just as those who are married and not Eastern Catholics are not permitted to enter the priesthood?

John.
 
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prodromos:
So are those who are not Eastern Catholic allowed to bring their children forward to receive Holy Communion, or is it just as those who are married and not Eastern Catholics are not permitted to enter the priesthood?

John.
Hi, John!

Because we are all Catholic, East and West, the graces available to one Catholic are, technically, available to all.

*However… *

It is prescribed that when one is initiated into the Catholic Church, one follows the traditions of the individual Church into which they are initiated. One notable difference in tradition between the Catholic East and the Catholic West is the order of progression with which the Sacraments are administered to the faithful. In the West, the accepted order in which an individual (usually a child) receives the Sacraments is as follows:

Baptism - Reconciliation - Eucharist - Confirmation

In the East, the progression is like this:

Baptism - Confirmation - Eucharist - Reconciliation

This may appear to be a subtle difference, but with regard to your question it makes a huge difference. According to the progression of the Sacraments within the Roman Catholic Church, a child should not receive the Eucharist until after he/she has been graced with both the Sacrament of Baptism and the Sacrament of Reconciliation. In the Byzantine Catholic Church, the child may recieve the Eucharist after reception of the Sacrament of Baptism and the Sacrament of Confirmation, both of which are usually administered to the infant faithful at the same ceremony (in fact, the child usually receives the Eucharist at this same ceremony as well). Reconciliation comes later in the Eastern Catholic Church.

Technically, since both children are Catholic, all the graces of the Church should be available to both children equally. We cannot, however, ignore the aspect of tradition and our adherence to it. The respect for and adherence to the traditions of the Church is a Scriptural mandate that we are bound by, and even though these traditions may vary from East to West, both are equally valid. In fact, if we were allowed to cross traditions out of, say, convenience, we risk diluting them to the point where they become meaningless or even lost altogether.

All that said, a Roman Catholic child who visitis a Byzantine Catholic Church may, as a Catholic attending a Catholic Liturgy, be technically ellegible to receive the Eucharist just like the Eastern Catholic children in attendance. To do so, however, would violate the traditions of the Roman Catholic Church to which he/she is bound.

The same philosophy would hold for your example with regard to the married priesthood. A married man can, technically, appeal to Rome for a Change of Rite in order to fulfill his priestly vocation as a married man, but, unless there were extreme and valid circumstances behind his desire to change, Rome would most certainly deny the change. It would not be granted merely out of convenience sake.

a pilgrim
 
Dear pilgrim,

I thankyou for your explanation, although I have to admit that it doesn’t make much sense to this simple Eastern mind. However, I don’t see much value in discussing the whys and wherefores as neither you nor I are likely to gain any benefit from such a conversation. You have helped me to understand a little better the Western viewpoint and for this I am grateful.

God bless.

John
 
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prodromos:
Dear pilgrim,

I thankyou for your explanation, although I have to admit that it doesn’t make much sense to this simple Eastern mind…
Hi, prodromos!

Actually, my own simple mind is just as “Eastern” as yours (Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic), although I have spent a considerable portion of my life worshipping in the Roman tradition as well (in fact, I still “split” my worship between the two).

Mnohaja i blahaja l’ita, my brother!

a pilgrim
 
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