Why we need to stand up against Anti-Gay sentiment

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the_universal said:
… the way the Church’s stance on marriage (i.e., between one man and one woman) is used by some to create an underlying narrative for homophobia and fear-mongering.
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I’ve not seen anyone create homophobia and fear mongering based on any (faithful) appeal to church teaching, but I’m sure there is a website somewhere that attempts to do so. And BTW, one does not need to rely on Christian tenets to recognise that marriage is between man and woman. Reason is sufficient. Reason and Church sources happen to accord.
 
the_universal said:
Regardless of your own personal “tolerances” towards same sex couples (sounds like you don’t like to see it in public or consider it marriage), there’s no evidence that it does any great damage to society. I hear a lot of fear-based arguments but nothing concrete to back anything up.

By the way, I have no objections to people not supporting same sex marriage or civil unions - I fully respect anyone’s stance and/or the Church’s stance on the matter. What I take issue with are the arguments around “it leads to societal decline” (please show me) and worse, the way the Church’s stance on marriage (i.e., between one man and one woman) is used by some to create an underlying narrative for homophobia and fear-mongering.
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Quite the assumption. Gender theory is the next step. It has been condemned by the Church.

cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/pope-francis-gender-theory-error-human-mind-leads-so-much-confusion

Homophobia does not exist. I do not have an irrational fear of LGBT people. No one does. It is a pejorative used to paint ‘all those against’ certain laws and concepts.

Ed
 
Rau said:
I’ve not seen anyone create homophobia and fear mongering based on any (faithful) appeal to church teaching, but I’m sure there is a website somewhere that attempts to do so. And BTW, one does not need to rely on Christian tenets to recognise that marriage is between man and woman. Reason is sufficient. Reason and Church sources happen to accord.
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Reason gets me only so far in relation to sex. It explains the majority of the natural plan but not everything. I believe that some LGBT people are born this way; a small percentage but nonetheless it is the way God made them. I also believe that some people are directed that way due to their environment - for whatever the reason (and the reasons are complex and I don’t pretend to understand them all). For those born this way, it is their biology, and hence part of the natural plan.
 
the_universal said:
Reason gets me only so far in relation to sex. It explains the majority of the natural plan but not everything. I believe that some LGBT people are born this way; a small percentage but nonetheless it is the way God made them. I also believe that some people are directed that way due to their environment - for whatever the reason (and the reasons are complex and I don’t pretend to understand them all). For those born this way, it is their biology, and hence part of the natural plan.
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As a poster said earlier, God did not make people like that. Homosexual tendencies are a result of Original Sin.
 
edwest2 said:
Quite the assumption. Gender theory is the next step. It has been condemned by the Church.

cnsnews.com/blog/michael-w-chapman/pope-francis-gender-theory-error-human-mind-leads-so-much-confusion

Homophobia does not exist. I do not have an irrational fear of LGBT people. No one does. It is a pejorative used to paint ‘all those against’ certain laws and concepts.

Ed
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I disagree. I love our Pope but the article quotes Pope Francis as saying that the family is under attack, and in my opinion there is no reason for this kind of language. It is fearful. Who is it under attack from? LGBT people? Nope. It is under attack from infidelity, selfishness, greed, etc. Etc.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, there’s nothing about gay or transgendered people or their unions that would threaten my way of living as a heterosexual man. Maybe I’m missing something but I last I checked I was still allowed to marry a woman. Again, show me the damage.
 
the_universal said:
Reason gets me only so far in relation to sex. It explains the majority of the natural plan but not everything. I believe that some LGBT people are born this way; a small percentage but nonetheless it is the way God made them. I also believe that some people are directed that way due to their environment - for whatever the reason (and the reasons are complex and I don’t pretend to understand them all). For those born this way, it is their biology, and hence part of the natural plan.
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I have no idea what causes the attraction to same sex sexual acts, and there are not yet persuasive scientific findings on that issue. Your beliefs appear to be a bet each way. But it is rather evident that two men exchanging their gametes does not fill any plan of nature or of God. Rather, it suggests something is amiss.
 
Rau said:
But it is rather evident that two men exchanging their gametes does not fill any plan of nature or of God. Rather, it suggests something is amiss.
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I’m glad you’re so knowledgeable about all of God’s plans. As for the natural world, there are a lot of things about it that we don’t know or understand yet. 😉
 
Rau said:
But it is rather evident that two men exchanging their gametes does not fill any plan of nature or of God. Rather, it suggests something is amiss.
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I’m glad you’re so knowledgeable about all of God’s plans. As for the natural world, there are a lot of things about it that we don’t know or understand yet. 😉

Sometimes I think it’s better to admit that there are things which we don’t understand.
 
the_universal said:
I disagree. I love our Pope but the article quotes Pope Francis as saying that the family is under attack, and in my opinion there is no reason for this kind of language. It is fearful. Who is it under attack from? LGBT people? Nope. It is under attack from infidelity, selfishness, greed, etc. Etc.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, there’s nothing about gay or transgendered people or their unions that would threaten my way of living as a heterosexual man. Maybe I’m missing something but I last I checked I was still allowed to marry a woman. Again, show me the damage.
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Pope Francis is quite clear: same-sex marriage threatens the family. His message is part of Church teaching.

catholicnews.com/services/englishnews/2015/pope-in-philippines-says-same-sex-marriage-threatens-family.cfm

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

Ed
 
the_universal said:
Reason gets me only so far in relation to sex. It explains the majority of the natural plan but not everything. I believe that some LGBT people are born this way; a small percentage but nonetheless it is the way God made them. I also believe that some people are directed that way due to their environment - for whatever the reason (and the reasons are complex and I don’t pretend to understand them all). For those born this way, it is their biology, and hence part of the natural plan.
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Not God. God created everything perfect. Man screwed it up and brought in every kind of sin in the world.
 
edwest2 said:
Homophobia does not exist. I do not have an irrational fear of LGBT people. No one does. It is a pejorative used to paint ‘all those against’ certain laws and concepts.

Ed
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This statement is both an example of the problem, and an explanation of it. You begin by throwing everyone in the same pool, “I don’t fear LGBT people, therefore no one does,” then go on to state that those against homosexual marriage are being labeled as homophobic (I’m inferring you think this is a problem and I agree).

Broad statements that stereotype are so much easier to understand than reality, and that’s why we tend to use them. If I inform everyone here that I’m for gay marriage, you’ve already made several assumptions about me. This is how the brain works, and that’s fine in many situations, but it often leads to misunderstanding in public discourse.

I know many Catholics aren’t very homophobic, if at all. So many Catholics I know have great relationships with people that are gay, but still oppose gay marriage because they aspire to follow the morals given by God rather than their own personal opinions. This is very noble.

Myself, I’ll admit I’m a bit homophobic. It makes me uncomfortable to witness two men or women kissing because I can’t empathize. What I’ve learned through prayer and reflection is that homosexual people are different than me, but should not be treated differently. I’ve found that for me, my joy in life is loving my wife and family. As such, I’d never deny anyone that joy.
 
the_universal said:
Sure, but being gay is not a sin.
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Generally and not addressed to you specifically: the G-word means:
  • my friend’s 9-year old
  • agitators and agents provocateurs
On occasion it can be difficult to pin down what the usage is meant to be taken to imply.

Some people - probably not you - like it to change meaning between the beginning and end of one sentence.

My policy is on the whole not to “finnick”. I’m only mentioning it here to highlight it as something that arguably isn’t included in what is in the thread title. It can be constructive to provoke thought and invite the use of a paraphrase for clarity.
  1. Thorolf (and also further to the John Kasich thread), a thought struck me. I wonder if those preganacies where one encloses one’s own twin are more common than thought especially if the twin remains a small cyst. Perhaps the cyst breaks surface and goes down the shower drain (in a good person’s house). One’s body will have been used to close proximity. Just a thought.
🙂 🙂 🙂
 
estesbob said:
Correct . As our Church teaches same-sex attraction, although disordered, is not a sin . actting on it is
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Arguable for same-sex sexual attraction and also when there is undue mawkishness. I have tended to take the phrase this way at any rate, even if others haven’t.
 
Redman1986 said:
This statement is both an example of the problem, and an explanation of it. You begin by throwing everyone in the same pool, “I don’t fear LGBT people, therefore no one does,” then go on to state that those against homosexual marriage are being labeled as homophobic (I’m inferring you think this is a problem and I agree).

Broad statements that stereotype are so much easier to understand than reality, and that’s why we tend to use them. If I inform everyone here that I’m for gay marriage, you’ve already made several assumptions about me. This is how the brain works, and that’s fine in many situations, but it often leads to misunderstanding in public discourse.

I know many Catholics aren’t very homophobic, if at all. So many Catholics I know have great relationships with people that are gay, but still oppose gay marriage because they aspire to follow the morals given by God rather than their own personal opinions. This is very noble.

Myself, I’ll admit I’m a bit homophobic. It makes me uncomfortable to witness two men or women kissing because I can’t empathize. What I’ve learned through prayer and reflection is that homosexual people are different than me, but should not be treated differently. I’ve found that for me, my joy in life is loving my wife and family. As such, I’d never deny anyone that joy.
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This is the kind of statement that causes such confusion. Are you really uncomfortable because of an irrational psychological fear (phobia) or are you uncomfortable because you are instinctively reacting to the fact that this is not normal behavior?

I have never met anyone, other than a few pre-teen boys, that actually exhibited or expressed any kind of phobia regarding homosexuals, homosexual behavior or any of the other variants.

Using the word “homophobia” is just a way to try to shut down the conversation by name-calling rather than discourse.
 
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