Why we should be left in state of doubt?

[Bahman]

How did you derive this?
I would totally agree that there is no possibility that we cannot be, since we are.
That God would bring you into being, regardless of who your parents are, is an untestable belief.

If there is a God who is omnipotent and omniscient then he could bring us into existence regardless whom our parents are.

 

[Aloysium]

If there is a God who is omnipotent and omniscient then he could bring us into existence regardless whom our parents are.

He could do anything rational, beautiful and good, but it is an assumption on your part that what has happened before your existence is of no consequence to your being here or not.

 

[Peter_Plato]

This is ironic. How we could know God when he is silent?

By being silent ourselves?

You seem to have wedded yourself to this notion that unless God is convincingly loud, brash, demonstrative and “out there” he cannot be God. This is your “God-test,” so to speak.

What if he doesn’t want to play your game and turn himself into your own private djinn? You have created a dependency and refuse to let it go. Good luck with that!

 

[Bahman]

He could do anything rational, beautiful and good, but it is an assumption on your part that what has happened before your existence is of no consequence to your being here or not.

God can do whatever rational, beautiful and good as you mentioned. The idea is whether I could exist taking different case of history which to me is very rational. I will have different parents, different life, etc. but I could exist. I don’t understand what is your objection.

 

[Bahman]

By being silent ourselves?

What?

You seem to have wedded yourself to this notion that unless God is convincingly loud, brash, demonstrative and “out there” he cannot be God. This is your “God-test,” so to speak.

That is no my objection. God could be and behave anyway he wishes. My point is that why we should left in state of silence when it comes to God considering the fact that world could be a very better place if God was not silent.

What if he doesn’t want to play your game and turn himself into your own private djinn? You have created a dependency and refuse to let it go. Good luck with that0!

Please read previous comment.

 

[fhansen]

I don’t know how we get to discussion of obedience but nonetheless freedom is required for intellect growth. We anyhow need an active mode of communication in order to obey. Don’t we?

Yes, freedom is good and necessary. But if obedience were also a necessary aspect of man’s relationship with God, then our response might be that we don’t even want to hear His voice. In any case human freedom does have limitations. When we try to go beyond that, chaos begins to reign.

 

[Bahman]

Yes, freedom is good and necessary. But if obedience were also a necessary aspect of man’s relationship with God, then our response might be that we don’t even want to hear His voice. In any case human freedom does have limitations. When we try to go beyond that, chaos begins to reign.

What voice? All my complain is that why God is silent leading people into state of doubt!

 

[Aloysium]

God can do whatever rational, beautiful and good as you mentioned. The idea is whether I could exist taking different case of history which to me is very rational. I will have different parents, different life, etc. but I could exist. I don’t understand what is your objection.

You have not and cannot prove what you posted:

You problem is that you tighten history to our existence which is not a correct assumption. We could exist if even history was very different and we have different parents.

If in searching for the truth, you are going to tell someone their assumption is incorrect, you should support it with something more than simply your opinion. A tendency to do so may be a reason why you hear silence; perhaps you are listening to only your own voice.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Why we should be left in state of doubt? Believing in God has eternal prise, Heaven, and disbelieving has eternal punishment, hell, yet God doesn’t proclaim himself to each individual and leave them in state of doubt. To me this seems very ironic, what is called faith.

Your thought.

What voice? All my complain is that why God is silent leading people into state of doubt!

God doesn’t force himself upon us. In fact, if he did, we would come to resent His constant presence – in our offices, in our bedrooms, in every aspect of our lives. Thus, he has given evidence of Himself which is sufficiently clear for those with an open heart and mind, but sufficiently vague so as to not compel those who are not open to Him. The French mathematician, Blaise Pascal, put it this way:

Willing to appear openly to those who seek him with all their heart, and to be hidden from those who flee from him with all their heart, God so regulates the knowledge of himself that he has given indications of himself which are visible to those who seek him and not to those who do not seek him. There is enough light for those to see who only desire to see, and enough obscurity for those who have a contrary disposition.

In other words, the evidence is there for those who have eyes to see, and it is sufficient for rational belief that God exists.

 

[Aloysium]

. . . perhaps you are listening to only your own voice.

On the other hand, perhaps it is some sort of dark night of the soul. All you have are ideas, none of which involves an actual communion with God. If you are not here to pursue your own agenda, to affirm some self-made truth, hang in there. It is His voice that calls you to search. You will know Him.

 

[fhansen]

What voice? All my complain is that why God is silent leading people into state of doubt!

A still, small voice (1 Kings 19:12). This is because He’s a part of us-and/or we’re a part of Him-and we’re expected to obey that voice rather than the blaring voice of the world, with its temptations and attractions. God’s voice is easily ignored and dismissed but it’s really our voice, too, in a sense, because, as I said, it’s an innate part of us even though we have the freedom to override it-and our own pride often motivates us to do just that. But it’s
there. He’s *here. *We just don’t necessarily want Him to be.

Dogs always listen to God. They always obey that voice, even if their behavior is modified by our training, because they do nothing* inconsistent with their own natures*. Humans, OTOH, can and do oppose their own natures. We call it sin, and sin always implies or carries with it a stubbornness-an objection to that voice-to obedience. Dogs have no choice while humans do have a choice-and therein lies the ability to deny God.

 

[Bahman]

You have not and cannot prove what you posted:

Here is the proof: God is omniscient and omnipotent so we could exist if history was different unless you provide an argument that show that something is logically wrong with my assertion.

If in searching for the truth, you are going to tell someone their assumption is incorrect, you should support it with something more than simply your opinion. A tendency to do so may be a reason why you hear silence; perhaps you are listening to only your own voice.

Please read previous comment.

 

[Bahman]

God doesn’t force himself upon us. In fact, if he did, we would come to resent His constant presence – in our offices, in our bedrooms, in every aspect of our lives.

You are exaggerating.

Thus, he has given evidence of Himself which is sufficiently clear for those with an open heart and mind, but sufficiently vague so as to not compel those who are not open to Him.

You are exaggerating again. Why not somewhere between? God is love so why he doesn’t break the silence when we need him the most.

The French mathematician, Blaise Pascal, put it this way:

Willing to appear openly to those who seek him with all their heart, and to be hidden from those who flee from him with all their heart, God so regulates the knowledge of himself that he has given indications of himself which are visible to those who seek him and not to those who do not seek him. There is enough light for those to see who only desire to see, and enough obscurity for those who have a contrary disposition.

In other words, the evidence is there for those who have eyes to see, and it is sufficient for rational belief that God exists.

Sign, sign, sign. I am tired of this point of view. Why we should seek God?

 

[SimmieKay]

You problem is that you tighten history to our existence which is not a correct assumption. We could exist if even history was very different and we have different parents.

I don’t see how I could possibly exist if my parents did not. A person with different parents would not be me, they would be someone else.

God being omnipotent, can bring about every logically possible state of affairs. But I would argue that “I being born with different parents” is not a logically possible state of affairs. I have an essence - some of my properties are accidental, in that they could be different yet I would still be me; other of my properties are essential, in that were they different it would not be me any more. Surely, the identity of my parents is part of my essence, not my accidents. God cannot make any thing to have a different essence, since that is a contradiction in terms (it is a violation of the law of identity, that A is A). God cannot do this any more than he could create a square circle, or create a rock so heavy that he could not lift it. Insofar as entities have essences, then the power of God does not extend to altering their essences - it extends to choosing whether an entity having that essence exists or not, and then to choosing its accidents. God cannot cause an entity to have a different essence yet remain the same entity, for that is a contradiction in terms.

Simon

 

[Bahman]

I don’t see how I could possibly exist if my parents did not. A person with different parents would not be me, they would be someone else.

No, that is your essence which define you as who you are.

God being omnipotent, can bring about every logically possible state of affairs. But I would argue that “I being born with different parents” is not a logically possible state of affairs.

And that is not logically impossible thing.

I have an essence - some of my properties are accidental, in that they could be different yet I would still be me; other of my properties are essential, in that were they different it would not be me any more. Surely, the identity of my parents is part of my essence, not my accidents. God cannot make any thing to have a different essence, since that is a contradiction in terms (it is a violation of the law of identity, that A is A). God cannot do this any more than he could create a square circle, or create a rock so heavy that he could not lift it. Insofar as entities have essences, then the power of God does not extend to altering their essences - it extends to choosing whether an entity having that essence exists or not, and then to choosing its accidents. God cannot cause an entity to have a different essence yet remain the same entity, for that is a contradiction in terms.

Simon

You are made of soul and body. What makes you who you are is your soul not your body. You could look differently and have different personality by having different body and be born in different time and location but that is not the point.