Why were the Jewish Gods chosen people?

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Q:Why were the Jewish Gods chosen people?
A: Because he chose them
Q: Why did he choose them?
A: Because he wanted to?
Q; Why?
A: No one knows.
  • But who indeed are you, a human being, to talk back to God? Will what is made say to its maker, “Why have you created me so?” Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for a noble purpose and another for an ignoble one? (Rom. 9:20-21 NAB)
Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How inscrutable are his judgments and how unsearchable his ways! “For who has known the mind of the Lord or who has been his counselor?” “Or who has given him anything that he may be repaid?” (Rom. 11:33-35 NAB)

For “who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to counsel him?” But we have the mind of Christ. (1 Cor. 2:16 NAB)

Who has directed the spirit of the LORD, or instructed him as his counselor? Whom did he consult to gain knowledge? Who taught him the path of judgment, or showed him the way of understanding? (Isa. 40:13-14 NAB)

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways-- oracle of the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, my thoughts higher than your thoughts. (Isa. 55:8-9 NAB)*
 
Qoeleth said:
God chose the path of greatest possible humility. He was incarnate as a poor, humble person, and accepted the further humiliation of death on the cross.

In line with this, God chose the Jewish people as one of the least ‘admirable’ peoples (in purely human terms). He could have chosen the Greeks (with their wisdom), or the Romans (with their higher moral qualities), or the Germanic people (with their taller stature and superior courage and strength), Indeed, He could have chosen to have been born the Most August Emperor, bearing the name of Divine Ceasar, amongst the most noble and just Romans, and spoken as a most learned philosophy (like Marcus Aurelius).

But instead, He chose to be born the son on a most lowly people, without physical or cultural stature, in a remote part of the Empire- the son (as was thought) of a poor, humble carpenter, and an unwed Virgin, amongst a people with neither philosophy, nor military power, nor the Germanic or Roman strength of character.

As St Paul says, it pleased God to chose what was wretched in the sight of the world, to humble those who were strong.

No offence to Jewish people today- I am only talking about how things were seen in the 1st Century, when the Jewish people were a small and powerless minority.
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Hi!

Interesting take on the chosen people… nicely placed against St. Paul’s words (1 Corinthians 1:1-31); though clearly St. Paul is addressing the fact that Jesus was seen as nothing and that His death amongst the crucified criminals as judgment against Him from God… it easily translates to a type for the chosen people… as it is stated in Scriptures:
8 Because it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith; not by anything of your own, but by a gift from God; 9 not by anything that you have done, so that nobody can claim the credit.
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(Ephesians 2:8-9)
Maran atha!

Angel
 
I seem to disagree with many. In fact I disagree with Qoeleth who wrote:

*In line with this, God chose the Jewish people as one of the least ‘admirable’ peoples (in purely human terms). He could have chosen the Greeks (with their wisdom), or the Romans (with their higher moral qualities), or the Germanic people (with their taller stature and superior courage and strength), Indeed, He could have chosen to have been born the Most August Emperor, bearing the name of Divine Ceasar, amongst the most noble and just Romans, and spoken as a most learned philosophy (like Marcus Aurelius). *

God chose the Jews to be his peoples a long time before the rise of Greece, Rome and the Germanic people. Jews were chosen centuries before Roman emperors.

For you are a people holy to the LORD, your God; the LORD, your God, has chosen you from all the peoples on the face of the earth to be a people specially his own. It was not because you are more numerous than all the peoples that the LORD set his heart on you and chose you; for you are really the smallest of all peoples. It was because the LORD loved you and because of his fidelity to the oath he had sworn to your ancestors, that the LORD brought you out with a strong hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh, king of Egypt.
(Deut. 7:6-8 NAB)
 
NoelFitz said:
I seem to disagree with many. In fact I disagree with Qoeleth who wrote:

*In line with this, God chose the Jewish people as one of the least ‘admirable’ peoples (in purely human terms). He could have chosen the Greeks (with their wisdom), or the Romans (with their higher moral qualities), or the Germanic people (with their taller stature and superior courage and strength), Indeed, He could have chosen to have been born the Most August Emperor, bearing the name of Divine Ceasar, amongst the most noble and just Romans, and spoken as a most learned philosophy (like Marcus Aurelius). *

God chose the Jews to be his peoples a long time before the rise of Greece, Rome and the Germanic people. Jews were chosen centuries before Roman emperors.

For you are a people holy to the LORD, your God; the LORD, your God, has chosen you from all the peoples on the face of the earth to be a people specially his own. It was not because you are more numerous than all the peoples that the LORD set his heart on you and chose you; for you are really the smallest of all peoples. It was because the LORD loved you and because of his fidelity to the oath he had sworn to your ancestors, that the LORD brought you out with a strong hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh, king of Egypt.
(Deut. 7:6-8 NAB)
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Remember, a lot of peoples (most!) though they were specially chosen by (their) God, whether they call him Zeus, or Odin, or Baal. It’s only natural, in a sense. So, the important thing, confirming that they really were ‘chosen’, is that Christ was actually born of them.

The quote from Deuteronomy seems to support my theory- God did not choose the Jews because they were numerous, or mighty, or noble, physically strong or beautiful, wise, etc., but He chose the ‘smallest of peoples’ to show His strength. That he could take what is weak in a purely human sense, and work salvation through them (ultimately through Christ)
 
Qoeleth
it seems to me you have missed the whole point of this thread. It is about
'Why were the Jewish Gods chosen people?’ It is not about the incarnation. The Jews were chosen before the incarnation. Why Jesus was born a Jew is a different question than the one raised in this thread.
 
NoelFitz said:
Qoeleth
it seems to me you have missed the whole point of this thread. It is about
'Why were the Jewish Gods chosen people?’ It is not about the incarnation. The Jews were chosen before the incarnation. Why Jesus was born a Jew is a different question than the one raised in this thread.
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No, but the point about being the “Chosen People” is that the Incarnation happened through them. That was actually what they were chosen for (although they did not know it at them time, and even today, some do not accept it.)

If there was no Jesus, the Jewish claims to be “God’s chosen” would have no more validity than then claims made by the ancient Egyptians, or the Romans, or any number of early peoples. If it wasn’t for Jesus, the religion of the ancient Jews would have no more credibility to us today than that of the ancient Mesopotamians, etc.

Remember, Christians believe that the whole Old Testament has validity only insofar as it predicts or foreshadows the mystery of Christ.
 
Qoeleth said:
No, but the point about being the “Chosen People” is that the Incarnation happened through them. That was actually what they were chosen for (although they did not know it at them time, and even today, some do not accept it.)

If there was no Jesus, the Jewish claims to be “God’s chosen” would have no more validity than then claims made by the ancient Egyptians, or the Romans, or any number of early peoples. If it wasn’t for Jesus, the religion of the ancient Jews would have no more credibility to us today than that of the ancient Mesopotamians, etc.

Remember, Christians believe that the whole Old Testament has validity only insofar as it predicts or foreshadows the mystery of Christ.
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Qoeleth,
with respect I disagree with most of your post.
I would like to hear from a third party to clarify the issue.
 
Qoeleth said:
No, but the point about being the “Chosen People” is that the Incarnation happened through them. That was actually what they were chosen for (although they did not know it at them time, and even today, some do not accept it.)

If there was no Jesus, the Jewish claims to be “God’s chosen” would have no more validity than then claims made by the ancient Egyptians, or the Romans, or any number of early peoples. If it wasn’t for Jesus, the religion of the ancient Jews would have no more credibility to us today than that of the ancient Mesopotamians, etc.

Remember, Christians believe that the whole Old Testament has validity only insofar as it predicts or foreshadows the mystery of Christ.
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This was my thought. The Jews were chosen to be a blessing to the world and that blessing was the Messiah, Jesus Christ… God bless the Jews!
 
Petra22 and Qoeleth,

we seem to disagree still.

You agree (it seems) that the Jews were chosen because Jesus was a Jew. I wonder.

The female ancestors of Jesus, as far as we know, were sexually ambiguous. His mother was not married when he was born, and Tamar, Rahab, Ruth and Bathsheba were compromised sexually to a greater or lesser extent. Ruth was not even a Jew, so the human background of Jesus was not fully Jewish. Nowadays Jewishness comes from the mother.

So to say Jews were chosen because Jesus was a Jew is questionable.

I go back to considering that we do not know why God does what he does. It is unknown why he chose Abram/Abraham and his descendants.

.
 
NoelFitz said:
Petra22 and Qoeleth,

we seem to disagree still.

You agree (it seems) that the Jews were chosen because Jesus was a Jew. I wonder.

The female ancestors of Jesus, as far as we know, were sexually ambiguous. His mother was not married when he was born, and Tamar, Rahab, Ruth and Bathsheba were compromised sexually to a greater or lesser extent. Ruth was not even a Jew, so the human background of Jesus was not fully Jewish. Nowadays Jewishness comes from the mother.

So to say Jews were chosen because Jesus was a Jew is questionable.

I go back to considering that we do not know why God does what he does. It is unknown why he chose Abram/Abraham and his descendants.

.
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Ruth was a Moabite who converted to Judaism. Any convert is regarded as a Jew just as much as one is born to a Jewish mother. It has also been pointed out that, in a sense, ALL Jews who accepted G-d’s Law are converts since they were given the choice of either accepting or rejecting it. Moreover, Ruth had to give up a lot to convert: her own people and their customs, not to mention her royalty, wealth, and luxurious life. By becoming a Jew, she would belong to a poor tribe. She is thus regarded by Judaism as the perfect proselyte. Likewise, from the Jewish perspective (or, rather, my own personal perspective), Jesus had to sacrifice a lot to forge his own revolutionary brand of Judaism among the Jewish people. As in the case of Ruth, that does not make him any less a Jew. One might even argue that both Ruth and Jesus, in their very different ways of course, represent the epitome of the Jewish spirit.
 
Meltzerboy,

I really am grateful to you for your reply to me. It is solid and you show a true, deep and respectful view of Judaism.

But I do not think it fully responds to my experiences. A friend of mine who married a Jew and converted is not fully accepted as a Jew, since his mother was not Jewish.

I am delighted that you are here, and I hope you are comfortable with our discussions, as you have a true understanding of the religion of the ancestors of Jesus.
 
NoelFitz said:
Petra22 and Qoeleth,

we seem to disagree still.

You agree (it seems) that the Jews were chosen because Jesus was a Jew. I wonder.

The female ancestors of Jesus, as far as we know, were sexually ambiguous. His mother was not married when he was born, and Tamar, Rahab, Ruth and Bathsheba were compromised sexually to a greater or lesser extent. Ruth was not even a Jew, so the human background of Jesus was not fully Jewish. Nowadays Jewishness comes from the mother.

So to say Jews were chosen because Jesus was a Jew is questionable.

I go back to considering that we do not know why God does what he does. It is unknown why he chose Abram/Abraham and his descendants.

.
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Hi, Noel!

I concur with you that we do not Know the Mind of God.

We only work from what Yahweh God has Revealed.

We Know (knowledge through Divine Revelation) that Yahweh God Chose Abram.

We Know that Abram was given a Covenant Oath and Promise.

We Know that God is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient…

Through Fore-Knowledge (Knowing/Being in all places and times) God Choose Abraham because how Abraham responded to Him:
3 because scripture says: Abraham put his faith in God, and this faith was considered as justifying him.
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(Romans 4:3)

23 This is what scripture really means when it says: Abraham put his faith in God, and this was counted as making him justified; and that is why he was called ‘the friend of God’. (St. James 2:23)
The election of Israel was made through Abraham.

What has been put forth as a type (the issue of the Suffering Servant) for Israel is an observation which fully falls within the foretelling of the Experience of the Messiah (Lamb of God).

Consider the fact that Jesus tells us that He is the Bread of Life… being born in Bethlehem seems quite gratuitous… yet, when we dig down… we find that Bethlehem in Hebrew means House of Bread… it was previously known as Ephrata (“fruitful”), and for some reason, also known (Arabic) as House of Meat…

So we have the Bread of Life, Born in Bethlehem: the House of Bread/Meat; and He Commands His Followers to Chew/Gnaw His Flesh!

Scriptural types are there… we can/may discover/assimilate them as our Faith process allows.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
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