Why were the kneelers taken out of some Catholic churches?

  • Thread starter Thread starter ruthelaine1963
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
R

ruthelaine1963

Guest
I am a returning Catholic. I have been away for some time. So this may be old news to some of you, but I never heard the reason why the kneelers were taken out of some Catholic Churches. Aren’t there are parts of the Mass that are supposed to be observed on one’s knees?! Also, in the Bible, which I am aware is not taken seriously by some Catholics, it is said that when the name of Jesus is heard, “all knees shall bend”, that’s now exact, but it’s something like that.
Anyway, anyone who can give an answer is appreciated.
Ruth 🙂 🙂
 
I think it had something to do with the notion that back in the early days of the Cathedrals, some of which had earthen floors before being completed, were without seats, kneelers, or any furniture for the ordinary people. Mass was being said in some of them as soon as even a part was roofed over.

I am also under the impression that the idea of seats and kneelers for the congregation was a relatively late innovation.

I am very confused by the wording of the poll and did not pick any box. 👍
 
Thanks for your reply. I am new to this forum & I think I did the poll wrong! I just had some questions that I wanted to pose! I will make sure I do it right next time! Or, if I can figure out how to correct it, I will! 😃
I was actually raised Catholic, but have spent about 20+ years in a fundamentalist setting. Due to some bizarre events in my life & haven’t been to any church in about 2 1/2 years. I went back to a Catholic church for the first time in years this morning & it was an unexpectedly moving experience for me.
But the question of the kneelers has always puzzled me. Your answer makes lots of sense, but I think there is more as well.
Ruth
 
Grace and Peace,

My Parish (St. Michael The Archangel Catholic Church) doesn’t have Kneelers and it has been a practice at St. Michael’s since it’s inception to not kneel. Originally this might be been because the community didn’t have a home for some time before a real parish was built but even after that the Community of St. Michael’s never installed kneelers and never kneeled.

Bishops have presided over many Liturgies and done have ever asked or encouraged the parish to kneel.

I personally like the reverence of kneeling but I also fine that standing and bowing is a long tradition in the Eastern and in Ethiopian Parishes so I don’t make it an issue of contention but I have enjoyed the classic traditions of the Western Liturgy at Sacred Heart Cathedral.
 
Another first for my family and me, is bowing during Consecration. I wish there were kneelers and that everyone knelt down…it just seems most reverent.

While standing might be acceptable, and was tradition centuries ago, I feel that what should we do–the acceptable thing, or the MOST REVERENT thing? I vote for the latter.

I kneel despite no kneelers. Just don’t wear white pants to mass in case the floor hasn’t been cleaned in a while. 😛
 
whatevergirl said:
Another first for my family and me, is bowing during Consecration. I wish there were kneelers and that everyone knelt down…it just seems most reverent.

While standing might be acceptable, and was tradition centuries ago, I feel that what should we do–the acceptable thing, or the MOST REVERENT thing? I vote for the latter.

I kneel despite no kneelers. Just don’t wear white pants to mass in case the floor hasn’t been cleaned in a while. 😛
Click to expand...
Honestly I firmly believe reverence is an attitude not a body posture. If you could join me in some of the ancient parishes in Ethiopia who stand in circles around the altar hands raised singing endlessly you would no longer believe posture equates to reverence.
 
chrisb said:
Honestly I firmly believe reverence is an attitude not a body posture. If you could join me in some of the ancient parishes in Ethiopia who stand in circles around the altar hands raised singing endlessly you would no longer believe posture equates to reverence.
Click to expand...
hi chris;

I don’t doubt it!:o

You know, maybe it is what we believe, personally, that we should be doing, as a reverent gesture. I don’t kneel at home always when saying my prayers, for example, but feel just as reverent in my heart.

It takes me back to the scene in Passion of the Christ, where Christ is shown to be extending a hand to the woman caught in adultery, and lifts her up to standing. She was practically crawling on the ground, with her hand shaking, as she approached to touch His sandals, afraid to make His gaze. (if you have seen the movie–do you remember this?)

She meets His gaze, and Jesus is lifting her to her feet. It’s a very moving part of the movie for me, because I think of my own shame from past sinful behaviors, and think I’m not worthy to meet Christ’s gaze. So, perhaps, it is our own views of reverence and unworthiness that causes us to feel the need to kneel. Which isn’t a bad thing, by the way.😉 I just wanted to make the point as to why we are moved to certain gestures, perhaps.

I imagine Jesus would have left the woman in that scene, on her knees, if He had chosen so. It’s probably the most intriguing scene in that movie, for me.
 
whatevergirl said:
hi chris;

I don’t doubt it!:o

You know, maybe it is what we believe, personally, that we should be doing, as a reverent gesture. I don’t kneel at home always when saying my prayers, for example, but feel just as reverent in my heart.

It takes me back to the scene in Passion of the Christ, where Christ is shown to be extending a hand to the woman caught in adultery, and lifts her up to standing. She was practically crawling on the ground, with her hand shaking, as she approached to touch His sandals, afraid to make His gaze. (if you have seen the movie–do you remember this?)
Click to expand...
Oh yeah I saw it (many many times).
She meets His gaze, and Jesus is lifting her to her feet. It’s a very moving part of the movie for me, because I think of my own shame from past sinful behaviors, and think I’m not worthy to meet Christ’s gaze. So, perhaps, it is our own views of reverence and unworthiness that causes us to feel the need to kneel. Which isn’t a bad thing, by the way.😉 I just wanted to make the point as to why we are moved to certain gestures, perhaps.
Click to expand...
I imagine Jesus would have left the woman in that scene, on her knees, if He had chosen so. It’s probably the most intriguing scene in that movie, for me.
Click to expand...
The Western Church ultimately took the passage in Revelations quite literally and began to kneel. I personally have no problem with the practice but I’ve also see other ancient traditions whom didn’t kneel. I really don’t think that the Western Church should necessarily give up the practice of kneeling so I’m not a fan of Western Church Parishes giving it up because they wish to be different or to somehow express their rebellion toward Rome and the Roman Rite. It’s a knife’s edge and we have to walk it with humility.
 
We still have kneelers in the UK, or at least we do in the Churches I have attended.

Karen
 
Honestly I don’t understand the relationship between the main topic and the questions we’re supposed to vote on here. Am I the only dumby that doesn’t get this?:confused:

In answer to the main question: YES! We need kneelers.🙂 I won’t even consider being a member at my local church because there are no kneelers.

But we don’t need to kneed kneelers, in my opinion. I don’t know what the official Church teaching here would be. Is there a Papal document on kneeding kneelers?
 
Jacafamala said:
**Honestly I don’t understand the relationship between the main topic and the questions we’re supposed to vote on here. Am I the only dumby that doesn’t get this?:confused: **
Click to expand...
LOL–The OP said that he/she felt the poll wasn’t posted correctly.
 
ChrisB, which parish do you belong to? If Roman Catholic, there is a requirement to kneel at the appropriate times of the liturgy for those who are physically able to, **with or without a kneeler. **You keep mentioning Ethiopia, and I am not sure whether your parish is a different rite than Roman.

The requirement to kneel at the appropriate time is not something even individual bishops have control over. Sadly, some do not take their responsibility as shepherds in liturgical matters seriously.
 
“When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.”

-Matthew 6:5-6

If the kneelers were taken out of my parish i would walk with a little cushion and still kneel, my knees would hurt on the cold floor…
 
In the Eastern churches, standing as a form of reverence somehow developed as the method of demonstrating reverence.

In the West, our form of reverence is on the knee.

The Byzantines frequently stand during the Consecration - this is not irreverence. I understand that this has a long tradition. To them, this is the posture one takes when in the presence of royalty.

However, being in the Latin rite, we traditionally demonstrate reverence and submission on our knees. We are supposed to kneel.

Removing kneelers appears to be a misguided reaction to the changes of Vatican II. Nowhere in the Council’s documents were we advised to remove kneelers or stop kneeling. But these removals occurred after the changes in the 60s just as many churches were changed [Gothic ceilings painted over, communion rails removed, marble altars ripped out and replaced with the Table, statues replaced with felt banners, etc]. Just as the vernacular was ALLOWED at Mass, Latin was almost completely removed from Mass, even though the Council’s documents stated that Latin should be retained.

Its a mystery to any of us who think about this deeply and have read documents and studied history. So if you are confused, join the club.

The Latin rite should be employing Latin still and also kneeling. Why these practices were stopped, no one has ever given me a satisfying answer. But it is our right to have both and we should be using kneelers.

I kneel at the appropriate times no matter what - whether or not the congregation kneels or whether or not there are kneelers.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top