Why were the Mennonites considered subversive in America PLEASE help me out!

[PattyPryor]

I am looking for info on this question and having such a hard time. Anyone know Why were the Mennonites considered subversive in America?

 

[Publisher]

I’m not sure what you mean by “subversive”. Friends have ties with both Mennonites and Brethren as our three traditions comprise the “Historic Peace Churches”.

Many Mennonites do not believe in holding public office…perhaps that is one reason.

Most Mennonites along with most Friends and Brethren will not perform oaths as it is believed that it creates a “double standard” in telling the truth, if the only time one can be trusted to tell the truth is when one is under oath, then one must also believe unless one is not under oath, they cannot be trusted.

Many Mennonites with many Friends and Brethren will not recite the “pledge of Allegience” here in America or take any “oath” a particular government may require it’s citizens to take to “prove” their loyalty.

Many Mennonites, along with many Friends and Brethren, will engage is “civil disobedience” if they feel their beliefs require them to follow conscience instead of “laws”.

Many Mennonites, along with Friends and Brethren have been participants in the “sanctuary movement”, offering “sanctuary” to those whom our respective governments have deemed…“unwelcome” if conscience calls to do so.

In each of our respective histories we have run a foul of just about every government in the lands we’ve settled in at one time or another as well as the religious establishments of the land.

 

[b_justb]

I am looking for info on this question and having such a hard time. Anyone know Why were the Mennonites considered subversive in America?

Because Mennonites refused to assume state offices, to serve as police or soldiers, or to take oaths of loyalty, they were considered subversive and as such severely persecuted. These persecutions led at various times to the emigration of Mennonite groups: to the American colonies (1683), where they settled in Pennsylvania; to Russia (1788); and, in the 20th century, from Russia and North America to Latin America. In Europe they gradually gained a measure of toleration in Holland, Switzerland, the Palatinate, and northern Germany.

| source |

 

[justinthemartyr]

I have a friend who touted his degree in theology as a mennonite. I asked him about John 12:32-33 where it says that Christ will draw all men unto himself, through his crucifixion, and he stated
“How can that be, God is the only one who can draw all men unto himself”

previous to this statement, I assumed that mennonites believed Jesus was God. evidently not? do they?

 

[Jerusha]

My understanding is that they are quite diverse in their theology-- tolerance of religious differences being an important part of their culture. So never mind what one told you.

It took the counseling from a Mennonite Brethren psychologist to give me the courage to address the LDS issue in my life. I know that there were times when he was afraid of what he unleashed.

 

[Publisher]

I have a friend who touted his degree in theology as a mennonite. I asked him about John 12:32-33 where it says that Christ will draw all men unto himself, through his crucifixion, and he stated
“How can that be, God is the only one who can draw all men unto himself”

previous to this statement, I assumed that mennonites believed Jesus was God. evidently not? do they?

One of the frustrating aspects of the CAF forum, is that many Catholics tend to take “personal” quotes made by others and treat them as “normative” for the religious tradition as a whole.

Mennonites historically are “orthodox” in belief. Where they have tended to diverge with most main line groups as well as with Catholics, Anglicans and Eastern Orthodox is in regards to baptism. Mennonites and Brethren practice believers baptism…most Mennonites allow pouring…some like Mennonite Brethren only immersion, Brethren and Brethren in Christ use trine immersion, much like Orthodox groups.

Mennonites also practice foot washing in conjunction with the Lord’s Supper…Brethren in Christ do as well…not sure about Brethren…but I suspect so.

 

[ralphinal]

Publisher,

Weren’t there times when the pacifistic nature of Mennonites and the Friends were also considered a problem? It seems like I remember an era where they were thought poorly of becuase they would not fight.

 

[Publisher]

Publisher,

Weren’t there times when the pacifistic nature of Mennonites and the Friends were also considered a problem? It seems like I remember an era where they were thought poorly of becuase they would not fight.

Yes, all three groups hold a similar stance on participating in war and violence.

During the Vietnam era many CO’s sought to identify themselves with one of our groups in order to be granted CO status. There was a lenghty process to go through in order for it to be granted.

If one is a member of a Historic Peace Church here in the US, CO status is typically granted.

Many Friends have chosen to work in med units in times of war…use to members were disfellowshipped (read out of Meeting) if they participated in the armed forces…now they are strongly counseled to “mind the Light” among Friends and no longer disfellowshipped as Friends believe one must be allowed to follow conscience.

I believe the Mennonite and Brethren churches also no longer disfellowships/excommunicates those who chose to participate in war or the armed services. The Mennonite Brethren have moved away from the historical peace stance, not disavowing it completely but are “moving away” from it, they have moved toward a more evangelical position.

 

[inthecloud]

Weren’t there times when the pacifistic nature of Mennonites and the Friends were also considered a problem? It seems like I remember an era where they were thought poorly of becuase they would not fight.

I think that is the main reason they are looked as subversives.

 

[Jerusha]

I think that is the main reason they are looked as subversives.

IMHO, I think their objective is now PREVENTION of war, not just individual nonparticipation. There has probably been some change since WWII, a realization that there is such a thing as a just war, and a dedication to intervene peacably with social action before things get that bad.

 

[Publisher]

IMHO, I think their objective is now PREVENTION of war, not just individual nonparticipation. There has probably been some change since WWII, a realization that there is such a thing as a just war, and a dedication to intervene peacably with social action before things get that bad.

While I doubt that any Mennonite or Brethren group woud embrace the idea of a “just war”, Friend’s certainly don’t, you are correct that centers for peace have been established to assist nations in settleing their differences peacefully. The road to war is so often ran down, rarely is it slowly walked down.

Friends realize that peaceful means in settling disputes takes decades if not generations at times, but war is not ever seen as a valid option.

George Fox stated that as Friends “we seek to live in that Virtue of Life which takes away the occasion of war.”

 

[ralphinal]

It seems like the peaceful nature was an issue for a while, even before WWII. I seem to think it was a problem in the Civil War era, and right after. “Turn the other cheek” has never been a popular American mentality.

Would you say the view of Americans changed after the anti-Viet Nam War days?

 

[Publisher]

It seems like the peaceful nature was an issue for a while, even before WWII. I seem to think it was a problem in the Civil War era, and right after. “Turn the other cheek” has never been a popular American mentality.

Would you say the view of Americans changed after the anti-Viet Nam War days?

Friend’s, Mennonites and Brethren have always held to a peace stance. The Friend’s Peace Testimony has been affirmed by Friends since the Seekers held some of their first Meetings in England.

Pennsylvania Friends gave up their seats in government when the Revolutionary War was declared. Quakers weren’t held in high esteme during those times…neither were Mennonites. This caused our groups to “turn inward”. With the Civil War a renewed interest in peaceful means to settle disputes emerged. Many Friends were part of the Underground Railroad. Many Friends, Mennonites and Brethren chose prison time instead of participating in the war efforts. Many were “traitors” as they offered assistance to any who came to them, Union or Confederate.

With the formation fo the Friends Service Committee, Mennonite Central Committee and Brethren Volunteer Service, the Peace groups have sought to engage nations in peaceful resolutions.

I believe right after WW1 an effort to organize peace groups became a focus. Mennonite Central Committee encompass Brethren as well. Friend’s delegates was sent to Hitler’s Germany to request they be allowed to assist the plight of Jews. The German government “remembered” Friend’s efforts to feed their children during WW1 and allowed Friends some latitude in assistance. The problem Friends had is they wouldn’t meet in secret but out in the open as to meet in secret was seen as not living in Truth.

After WWII teaching peace took on a new “push” among the Peace Churches…with the Korean War and Vietnam Friends, Mennonites and Brethren helped CO’s to register. Many inductees chose to serve in non-combatant roles.

You are correct, things started changing after the Viet Nam era, but some of those sentiments that started turning our nation toward peace seemed to go right out the window with 911.