Why women can't be priests

[Lazerlike42]

Heavenly, you’re misunderstanding what I am saying, I think. Immanence and transcendence are not manmade ideas or distinctions. They are basic metaphysical realities. God transcends the universe, because He is not inside it. That’s a fact, and its got nothing to do with gender. Human beings are immanent to the universe - they are inside of the universe. That too is a fact which has nothing to do with gender.

The problem is that we think today of masculinity and femininity as things that are defined by what men and women are - masculinity is defined as being that which is like men, and femininity is defined as being that which is like women. With this thinking, then when a person says that masculinity is transcendant and femininity is not, the idea comes across that what is being said is that women cannot transcend or that whoever created these distinctions views women in some diminishing way.

The reality, as I tried to point out in my first paragraph, is that immanence and emmanence are simply metaphysical realities that existed long before any human being - or any other sexual animal - ever existed. Given these already existing realities, when different genders began to exist, the male gender simply matches the emmanent reality in terms of sexuality, most specifically in terms of the generation of offspring. The female gender matches the immanent reality in terms of the generation of offspring.

God’s relation to us is just like our relation to our children - He creates us as children - and so it is rather fitting to use these same terms -masculinity versus femininity - in relation to Him, epecially since He is personal. We could call Him “It,” but that would detract from His existence as a personal God.

 

[Franciscan]

Jesus had the authority to exclude women from the priesthood, and he did. Jesus was clearly not sexist, the Blessed Mother, and Mary Magdalene, among others, were clearly very important disciples. Yet he did not make them priests. He chose only men to be priests.

If any women was going to be a priest, wouldn’t it be the Blessed Mother?

Jesus didn’t ordain women, so the Church can’t. It’s that simple.

God Bless

But wait a minute. Hold On. I heard that in the movie the Da Vinci Code there was a painting with what looked like a woman at the Last Supper so therefore Jesus gave the priesthood to women too…Yes, Im joking.

 

[estesbob]

From the Cathecism:

Only a baptized man (vir) receives sacred ordination. The Lord Jesus chose men (viri) to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry. The college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of the twelve an ever-present and ever-active reality until Christ’s return. The Church recognizes herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord Himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I think that too many people seem to have a false belief of ‘masculine’ behavior. Jesus’s behavior to others was not ‘stereotypically non masculine’. It was, in fact, perfectly masculine as He happens to be the perfect male.

Sigh. As a woman myself, I feel sorry to see other women turned into male bashers and harboring feelings of rage against half of the world because they happen to be of a different gender, and because of the hysteria that has been systematically built up to make all women feel like victims of men simply by the fact of being ‘women’, and making all men into ‘oppressors’ simply by the fact of them being ‘men’.

 

[Cat]

“And the leave the woman at home and go out into the world pattern of males was part of the pattern of having females economically dependent on males.”

Maybe I’m just a silly female, but I thought it had more to do with my milk supply than keeping me dependent. Babies need food, females have it, men don’t. If you don’t like that, take it up with the Creator.

Of course, once formula was invented, women could go to work and leave their babies with “care-givers.”.

Did men or women invent powdered formula?

Frankly, I liked having the “power” of being my babies’ sole supply of food.

I work outside the home now and have ever since my kids started school. I don’t get a rush out of it. It’s money to pay the college tuition, that’s all.

But again, maybe I’m just silly.

As for the priest issue, to me it has to do with the Authority of the Church. I believe the God the Holy Spirit is mighty enough to knock ‘em upside the head if they have it all wrong. So far, there’s been no knockin’ upside the head, so I think the Church has it right and men are God’s chosen priests.

There are so many jobs and positions for women in the Church that none of us should be bored.

 

[mapleoak]

When women notice that men are less than perfect, they are usually accused of having “anti-male rage”. Yeah, massuh.

Both men and women are less than perfect

You can imitate the recorded history of Jesus appointing male apostles ( term invented later), so the Church imitates that behavior, so you can take that as your authority. But who has the authority to exclude non-males, Jesus never delivered a statement about that. Having the authority to include males does not equal the authority to exclude non males.

Jesus has the authority to do whatever He wants!

Your interpretation of my posts as saying Jesus-homosexual? no, I just noted that he had a male body but his actions and behaviors were not stereotypically masculine- rather his emphasis on cooperation, esteem of women, non violence, turning the other cheek, collegiality, are not sterotypically masculine.

Yes, Jesus was perfect in every one of the above mentioned virtues. All are called to strive towards that perfection. Not good to follow stereotypes.

I think that the lesser importance of males in procreation has been created by technology and is a fact, like it or not.

How so? Try procreating all by yourself.

And the leave the woman at home and go out into the world pattern of males was part of the pattern of having females economically dependent on males. So don’t get too broken up about being called less necessary, see how emotional guys get.

There are and always throughout history been two distinct ways of thinking. The ways of the world and the ways of God. The ways of the world may have thought women to be inferior by your statement: “part of the pattern of having females economically dependent on males”. In a strictly wordly sense, why wouldn’t have women sought to overturn and reverse that idea. In other words make males economically dependent on females? Shouldn’t that have been possible?
The ways of God however, and that of the Catholic Church, have always held that men and women are equal in dignity, neither being superior or inferior.

A taste of your own medicine , as females were seen as " lesser" for eons. Guess they were feeling what you’re feeling now. Anyway, isn’t being “lesser” a good thing, the least of us…

Is this supposed to be sarcastic? This last one is a little deep.

In Christ - J.M.J.
Mapleoak

 

[Keikiolu]

I was speaking for a female Baptist pastor on this topic. I explained that it’s not out of predjudice, and that the reason is because the priest must act in the person of Christ, who is the bridegroom (male), while the Church is the bride (female).

Did I leave anything important out as to the REASON?

She responded by saying that bride/bridegroom is just an analogy, and there is no gender, so it shouldn’t matter. How would you respond to that?

I’d say, “I think the ‘analogy’ is also a reality, and just as real as the ‘ANALOGY’ that God ‘created’ the universe, and that Jesus ‘rose’ from the dead.”

In other words,… we’ll have to disagree on this one, because there is no way whatsoever that they will be “converted” by me, other than by my example as a person,… and the only way that we’re going to remain friends such that I’m seen as a good example is to agree to disagree about this particular point.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[clmowry]

You obviuosly haven’t been enlightened to the point that you can realize how dissatisfied and repressed you have been.

My wife suffers from the same disease. (Thank you God.)

Chuck

“And the leave the woman at home and go out into the world pattern of males was part of the pattern of having females economically dependent on males.”

Maybe I’m just a silly female, but I thought it had more to do with my milk supply than keeping me dependent. Babies need food, females have it, men don’t. If you don’t like that, take it up with the Creator.

Of course, once formula was invented, women could go to work and leave their babies with “care-givers.”.

Did men or women invent powdered formula?

Frankly, I liked having the “power” of being my babies’ sole supply of food.

I work outside the home now and have ever since my kids started school. I don’t get a rush out of it. It’s money to pay the college tuition, that’s all.

But again, maybe I’m just silly.

As for the priest issue, to me it has to do with the Authority of the Church. I believe the God the Holy Spirit is mighty enough to knock ‘em upside the head if they have it all wrong. So far, there’s been no knockin’ upside the head, so I think the Church has it right and men are God’s chosen priests.

There are so many jobs and positions for women in the Church that none of us should be bored.

 

[Nita]

The center of our Catholic faith is the Eucharist. In bringing this gift to reality at each Mass, the priest has to say:

“This is My Body.” (So, biology does enter into it)

It is those words which confect the sacrament. Since Jesus’ body was male, it would be slightly ridiculous to have a female saying it.

There is a strong union between Our Lord and the priest at Mass, different from any human relationship. More like Jesus is there in the priest, saying the words in and through him. The priest, in a sense, is there to be a visible image of Jesus for us. At Mass, as at Calvary and in the heavenly Holy of Holies, it is Jesus who is both the victim offered and the high priest who is offering…

That at least is my understanding of what takes place at Mass with the priest acting “in the person” of Christ.

Nita

 

[Bishopite]

“And the leave the woman at home and go out into the world pattern of males was part of the pattern of having females economically dependent on males.”

Maybe I’m just a silly female, but I thought it had more to do with my milk supply than keeping me dependent. Babies need food, females have it, men don’t. If you don’t like that, take it up with the Creator.

Of course, once formula was invented, women could go to work and leave their babies with “care-givers.”.

Did men or women invent powdered formula?

Frankly, I liked having the “power” of being my babies’ sole supply of food.

I work outside the home now and have ever since my kids started school. I don’t get a rush out of it. It’s money to pay the college tuition, that’s all.

But again, maybe I’m just silly.

As for the priest issue, to me it has to do with the Authority of the Church. I believe the God the Holy Spirit is mighty enough to knock ‘em upside the head if they have it all wrong. So far, there’s been no knockin’ upside the head, so I think the Church has it right and men are God’s chosen priests.

There are so many jobs and positions for women in the Church that none of us should be bored.

You are correct. It is how God designed the order of the world. Women can’t be Catholic priest’s and men can’t birth children; this is Gods plan. It seems God chose women for the more difficult task though, perhaps because they are generally more humble and can deal with pain (generally speaking) better than most men. Yet they get to experience life as NO man will ever be able to experience.

 

[Greg27]

Pope John Paul II wrote a letter on this question and said the ordained ministry in the CC was only made for men, by God’s design, and there was no possibility of female ordination and this view was binding on the faithful.

While this position is pretty strong and done on the basis of tradition, the CC has had many great and strong women in non-ordained roles, some of whom are Doctors of the Church. Just because women are not ordained to ministry does not mean they have not been able to play a vital role in the Church and its spirituality.

 

[Bishopite]

Pope John Paul II wrote a letter on this question and said the ordained ministry in the CC was only made for men, by God’s design, and there was no possibility of female ordination and this view was binding on the faithful.

While this position is pretty strong and done on the basis of tradition, the CC has had many great and strong women in non-ordained roles, some of whom are Doctors of the Church. Just because women are not ordained to ministry does not mean they have not been able to play a vital role in the Church and its spirituality.

The letter by John Paul ll you may be thinking of is…

"Ordinatio Sacerdotalis (Latin for On Ordination to the Priesthood) is a Roman Catholic document discussing the Roman Catholic Church’s position requiring “the reservation of priestly ordination to men alone.” This Apostolic Letter was issued from the Vatican by Pope John Paul II on 22 May 1994. In its clear proclamation that "the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women,"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinatio_Sacerdotalis

 

[havemercy]

Woman’s ordination is a theological impossibility. Its simply not possible.

 

[st_lucy]

I think that too many people seem to have a false belief of ‘masculine’ behavior. Jesus’s behavior to others was not ‘stereotypically non masculine’. It was, in fact, perfectly masculine as He happens to be the perfect male.

Sigh. As a woman myself, I feel sorry to see other women turned into male bashers and harboring feelings of rage against half of the world because they happen to be of a different gender, and because of the hysteria that has been systematically built up to make all women feel like victims of men simply by the fact of being ‘women’, and making all men into ‘oppressors’ simply by the fact of them being ‘men’.

I agree the whole idea of men being violent and women not being violent makes me chuckle anyone who has eyes just have to take a look at the feminist movement to see how violent women can be.

Anyway, why can’t women become priest because Rome has spoken, end of discussion.

 

[st_lucy]

When women notice that men are less than perfect, they are usually accused of having “anti-male rage”. Yeah, massuh.

You can imitate the recorded history of Jesus appointing male apostles ( term invented later), so the Church imitates that behavior, so you can take that as your authority. But who has the authority to exclude non-males, Jesus never delivered a statement about that. Having the authority to include males does not equal the authority to exclude non males.

Jesus has authority and He didn’t appoint women to the apostleship while He was here on earth. And He gave authority to the set of Peter. You also need to remember not all males can become priest and will become priest, this is a calling from God.

The only thing I see is how women like you are give everyone including women like me a hard time.
Your interpretation of my posts as saying Jesus-homosexual? no, I just noted that he had a male body but his actions and behaviors were not stereotypically masculine- rather his emphasis on cooperation, esteem of women, non violence, turning the other cheek, collegiality, are not sterotypically masculine. We don’t have any written record of his sexual inclinations. We can see that he did not favor HIERARCHY, and dominance over others, a stereotypically masculine pursuit. Or the amassing of goods to be rich and control the lives of others. I don’t see a Masculine message in the Gospel at all.

As I stated before, the idea that men are violent makes me chuckle. How in the world to explain the violence put forth by the women of our day? Sanger was a very violent women. I know no male in my life who exudes dominance over others ( I am not saying there are not any though) But I do know a few women who really enjoy dominating the male and female population with their hate agenda, and cry poor feeble women one someone stands up to her.

I think that the lesser importance of males in procreation has been created by technology and is a fact, like it or not.

Please prove this to me.

And the leave the woman at home and go out into the world pattern of males was part of the pattern of having females economically dependent on males. So don’t get too broken up about being called less necessary, see how emotional guys get.

So are you saying the fact that since I have chosen to stay at home and not go to work I am now economically dependent on males. I do however get a little offensive when I hear a male basher stating such horrid lies about our men. I look at what my husband has to put up with in work force by women who feel like they can hurl these ugly accusations at him. Men have a hard enough time now a days just trying to provide that they shouldn’t have to put up with this load of BS. I often wonder how I can raise my own son to be a real man in this world of men haters, it is daunting.

A taste of your own medicine , as females were seen as " lesser" for eons. Guess they were feeling what you’re feeling now. Anyway, isn’t being “lesser” a good thing, the least of us…

 

[BobP123]

Not that it’s necessarily relevant to the topic but a good read for you whether you agree women can be priests or not:

The Church Impotent, The Feminization of Christianity, by Leon J. Podles.

The point I guess I’m trying to make is that maybe it’s not necessary to be a priest to be able to control. Just some food for thought.