Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader?

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AshleyBelle said:
Bud I noticed you like to highlight any part of scripture that says “tradition” and apply it to mean that all tradition is evil and therefore the catholic church is evil.

What about the passages asking us to hold fast to the traditions handed down to us?

And please explain to us ignorant catholics, why our traditions are evil, and which particular traditions you are referring to.
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Traditions of intercession other than Jesus and images that you bow to and kiss. The fact that you chose to disregard Ex 20-4. Your traditions are contrary to the written word, there for they are not of God but rather man.

If you cant show me where in the Bible that praying (to) not for anyone besides the Father or the Son is evident you will never have a case. You would rather follow traditions than the written word.
I am merely pointing to scripture that clearly indicates Jesus is our only intercessor. The Bible clearly states that on the day you stand before the Father, the Pope will not be there interceding for you nor Mary nor any image. You stand with Jesus Christ or you stand alone. Nowhere does the bible say that you should pray to any man or woman dead or alive, quite the contrary.

Col 2-6
As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and established in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Quote:
What about the passages asking us to hold fast to the traditions handed down to us?

To close traditions are all well and good providing the dont contradict the Word.

1 John 4
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this we know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now is already in the world.

Acts 17:11
11Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
 
bud02 said:
If that is what it means then why does it not say that?
looks to me like you are adding to the “Catechism’s traditional presentation of the commandments”
Such is the traditions of men, adding and taking away.

Making and placing images in your church is clearly not what God said.
The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image. What does that mean the move movement toward the image does not make it an image?? Isn’t that like saying moving toward my car does not make it a car? The action toward, does not change the fact its a car or an image.

“quote” (but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate). clearly states that the image leads. It also clearly places something between man and God, just as you also place Mary between man and God. The RCC insist at every turn, something other than Jesus interceding for themselves.

1 Tim 2-5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus
In this passage there is no room for the Pope or Mary or any image.

Catechism of the Catholic Church # 2132
Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is

EX 20-4
"You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
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Because those are just the high points of each one. If you read the entire CCC, you will see it fleshed out.

I doubt you will do so.

Besides, after he told them not to, he told them to make the snake and put it on the pole AND make the Ark with angels on it.
 
Jimmy_B said:
If it was not for the Roman Catholic Pope and the centrally organized structure of the Roman Catholic Church, there would not be a Bible today, there would not be Christianity today, and we would not be having this discussion.

Christianity would have been wiped from the face of the earth, well before any “Protestant” movement.
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I doubt you would find a single Christian anywhere, including Catholics, who would maintain that without the RCC, God lacks the ability to preserve Christianity or his Words (Bible).

You’ve given some reasons why powerful hierarchical organizations may do well but the only reason worthy considering is whether or not God invests his authority in the RCC, (or indeed any religion). If one does not believe that he has, then there is no compelling reason to recognize the RCC - or whoever - regardless of other merits.
 
Snow said:
I doubt you would find a single Christian anywhere, including Catholics, who would maintain that without the RCC, God lacks the ability to preserve Christianity or his Words (Bible).

You’ve given some reasons why powerful hierarchical organizations may do well but the only reason worthy considering is whether or not God invests his authority in the RCC, (or indeed any religion). If one does not believe that he has, then there is no compelling reason to recognize the RCC - or whoever - regardless of other merits.
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Hi, Snow, and of course God can do as he will and indeed chose the Catholic Church as the instrument of His will to do so,just as He chose Paul,as an instrument. 1Timothy explains your query in verses below.

Timothy 3
13 for those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
14 I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these instructions to you so that,
15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of our RELIGION: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world

Snow, I think you must determine what religion Paul is talking about in VS,16. until you do this your understanding of the Catholic Church is incomplete and consequently exactly what religion Paul is referring to is skewed.

Hint: Peter’s profession of faith Matt. 16.

Peace, onenow1
 
onenow1 said:
Snow, I think you must determine what religion Paul is talking about in VS,16. until you do this your understanding of the Catholic Church is incomplete and consequently exactly what religion Paul is referring to is skewed.
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Easy one.

The “religion” is Christianity!

There are others, such as Orthodox, some Anglicans and Lutherans that believe inn the “Faith once given to the saints”,
just not the “add-ons” the RCC has made over the centuries.
 
piperspop said:
Easy one.

The “religion” is Christianity!

There are others, such as Orthodox, some Anglicans and Lutherans that believe inn the “Faith once given to the saints”,
just not the “add-ons” the RCC has made over the centuries.
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Easier one ! Yopu are correct Catholic Christian Universal ].

Your opoinion in the add on section unecessary ! Every one has an opinion, what matters is the truth ! And by the way you know what they say about opinions. 😉

Peace, onenow1
 
Jimmy_B said:
Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader?

Leaders and leadership positions exist in every aspect of our lives.

A “chain of command” with a leader at the top and an upper echelon (central leadership) is essential to any large organization. Any organization without a central command, where authority is not passed down from the top, through a series of steps or positions, with each person accountable to the one(s) directly above them, leads to confusion, chaos and that organization is ultimately doomed to failure.

Christianity has never been a democracy and Christianity has always had leaders.

Decision-making responsibilities always originate from the “top” of any properly structured organization, from the higher levels of authority to the lower levels. This is called leadership.

Leadership encourages compliance without dissension. Most organizations’ have a ‘pyramid” type structure or something very close.

All Governments have various leadership positions.
All Businesses have various leadership positions.
All Militaries have various leadership positions
All Professional Sports Teams have various leadership positions.

They all have a leadership structure or “chain of command", which starts at the top from the higher levels of authority to the lower levels.

I can go on forever with examples of leaders, leadership and various organizations with a “chain of command”.

Leadership is “structure”, that’s all it is. Human beings have always craved “structure” in their lives, going all the way back to tribal leaders, it’s in our nature.

Structure is a good thing, it prevents confusion and chaos.

There are 2500+ Catholic Dioceses worldwide and one billion Catholics. It is unreasonable to expect there not to be a “chain of command” and a leadership structure in the Roman Catholic Church and this would include the head of the Church here on earth, the Pope.

The Pope is the “glue”, which holds it all together.

If it was not for the Roman Catholic Pope and the centrally organized structure of the Roman Catholic Church, there would not be a Bible today, there would not be Christianity today, and we would not be having this discussion.

Christianity would have been wiped from the face of the earth, well before any “Protestant” movement.

Why is it, that there are so many “Christians” who experience a “chain of command” or a hierarchy in ever aspect of their lives cannot accept this concept, when it comes to the Roman Catholic Church and the Pope?

Finally, all families have a “pecking order’ or various levels of authority, with the parents at the top, over their children. there is no democracy in a family. Christianity (Catholicism) is one big family, and our “papa” is the Pope.

Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader?
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Jimmy_B said:
Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader?

Leaders and leadership positions exist in every aspect of our lives.

A “chain of command” with a leader at the top and an upper echelon (central leadership) is essential to any large organization. Any organization without a central command, where authority is not passed down from the top, through a series of steps or positions, with each person accountable to the one(s) directly above them, leads to confusion, chaos and that organization is ultimately doomed to failure.

Christianity has never been a democracy and Christianity has always had leaders.

Decision-making responsibilities always originate from the “top” of any properly structured organization, from the higher levels of authority to the lower levels. This is called leadership.

Leadership encourages compliance without dissension. Most organizations’ have a ‘pyramid” type structure or something very close.

All Governments have various leadership positions.
All Businesses have various leadership positions.
All Militaries have various leadership positions
All Professional Sports Teams have various leadership positions.

They all have a leadership structure or “chain of command", which starts at the top from the higher levels of authority to the lower levels.

I can go on forever with examples of leaders, leadership and various organizations with a “chain of command”.

Leadership is “structure”, that’s all it is. Human beings have always craved “structure” in their lives, going all the way back to tribal leaders, it’s in our nature.

Structure is a good thing, it prevents confusion and chaos.

There are 2500+ Catholic Dioceses worldwide and one billion Catholics. It is unreasonable to expect there not to be a “chain of command” and a leadership structure in the Roman Catholic Church and this would include the head of the Church here on earth, the Pope.

The Pope is the “glue”, which holds it all together.

If it was not for the Roman Catholic Pope and the centrally organized structure of the Roman Catholic Church, there would not be a Bible today, there would not be Christianity today, and we would not be having this discussion.

Christianity would have been wiped from the face of the earth, well before any “Protestant” movement.

Why is it, that there are so many “Christians” who experience a “chain of command” or a hierarchy in ever aspect of their lives cannot accept this concept, when it comes to the Roman Catholic Church and the Pope?

Finally, all families have a “pecking order’ or various levels of authority, with the parents at the top, over their children. there is no democracy in a family. Christianity (Catholicism) is one big family, and our “papa” is the Pope.

Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader?
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You have proven nothing here. First of all, the Scriptures tell us that Peter was chosen by Jesus to lead his Church and to bind and loose (which we see manifesting the the Acts of the Apostles). Nothing there says anything about Peter’s successors having authority equal to that of Scripture. Nothing claims anything about Peter being the pope in Rome either. Catholics claim that not everything that is truth is contained in Scripture which is obviously true, but one striking thing that Paul should have written about and never did was the death of Peter in Rome. Paul was in Rome at this time (25AD) or so and never once wrote anything about Peter being the pope of Rome any being martyred or anything. If anything should have been written about, surely this as important as you all would have us believe surely should have been shouted from the rooftops by St. Paul and it wasn’t. hmmmm.
 
SIA said:
You have proven nothing here. First of all, the Scriptures tell us that Peter was chosen by Jesus to lead his Church and to bind and loose (which we see manifesting the the Acts of the Apostles). Nothing there says anything about Peter’s successors having authority equal to that of Scripture. Nothing claims anything about Peter being the pope in Rome either. Catholics claim that not everything that is truth is contained in Scripture which is obviously true, but one striking thing that Paul should have written about and never did was the death of Peter in Rome. Paul was in Rome at this time (25AD) or so and never once wrote anything about Peter being the pope of Rome any being martyred or anything. If anything should have been written about, surely this as important as you all would have us believe surely should have been shouted from the rooftops by St. Paul and it wasn’t. hmmmm.
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And you know all of this …how?
 
“Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader?”

No offense, but this is like asking Catholics to accept the authority of the head of the Mormon Church. Please. To each his own. Actually, in truth, we shouldn’t want a ‘one-world’ Christian denomination and hierarchy. That would mitigate against religious freedom, which the Catholic Church itself encourages.
 
KingAlfred said:
“Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader?”

No offense, but this is like asking Catholics to accept the authority of the head of the Mormon Church. Please. To each his own. Actually, in truth, we shouldn’t want a ‘one-world’ Christian denomination and hierarchy. That would mitigate against religious freedom, which the Catholic Church itself encourages.
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John 17:20 (Jesus Praying) I am praying not only for these disciples but also for all who will ever believe in me because of their testimony. My prayer for all of them is that they will be ONE, just as you and I are one, Father, that just as you are in me and I am in you, so they will be in us, and the world will believe you sent me

I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be ONE, as we are

When the church is referred to in scripture, It is church not churches. Jesus never intended for there to be but ONE church.

Martin Luther may be in a lot of trouble come judgement day.

God Bless:)
 
allischalmers said:
because we are not catholic, :extrahappy: dumb question:
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Exactly. We don’t recognize the Pope’s leadership over all Christianity because we’re not Catholic and we don’t share the Catholic belief that He is what you say. Also, Jesus said His sheep hear His voice and He knows them and they follow Him. The sheep won’t hear the voice of a stranger and that’s why we don’t follow the Pope.
 
Jimmy_B said:
Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader?

Leaders and leadership positions exist in every aspect of our lives.

A “chain of command” with a leader at the top and an upper echelon (central leadership) is essential to any large organization. Any organization without a central command, where authority is not passed down from the top, through a series of steps or positions, with each person accountable to the one(s) directly above them, leads to confusion, chaos and that organization is ultimately doomed to failure.
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The Anglican Communion is governed by episcopal polity and visual leadership in the Archbishop of Canterbury. Each diocese has a bishop. We v ery much stick to the form of authority described in the New Testament, unlike Protestants with modern gatherings that lack any notion of the historic episcopy and random men with the title “bishop” (who officially gave them that title)?

We are a very organized Communion, from Canterbury to all national Churches and their parishes.
Christianity has never been a democracy and Christianity has always had leaders.
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Actually, popes and bishops were historically elected by popular vote. The Episcopal/Anglican churches continue this ancient practice.

We have no disagreement in the matter of necessity of hierarchy. There is a substantive division about “infallibiIity,” meaning we reject that innovation. And, there is the issue of transparency. Anglican bishops seem more accomodating to their people, since they are ACCOUNTABLE to their flocks.
 
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