Why won’t all other Christians recognize the Roman Catholic Pope as their leader?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jimmy_B
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
No offense taken.
Lutherans consider Christ as the founder of the one, holy catholic, and apostolic church, of which we are a part.

As for Luther’s alleged death-bed conversion, there is no documentation of such an event. See this thread:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=53464

Jon
Hi Jon,

I know that as an orthodox Lutheran, your denomination and beliefs appear to have more in common with that of the Catholic Church, than many other non-Catholic Christian Religions (denominations), so why aren’t you a Catholic?

That said, generally speaking, how could any Protestant denomination be part of the “One” Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, if they are not Catholic?

You would agree that the reason there exist so many different denominations, is because of different beliefs, different interpretations, and different expressions of Christianity.

If this were not so, then why isn’t there “One” Christian religion? For that matter, why isn’t there “One” Protestant denomination?



Thank you for your post

Peace
 
=Jimmy B;4651608]Hi Jon,

I know that as an orthodox Lutheran, your denomination and beliefs appear to have more in common with that of the Catholic Church, than many other non-Catholic Christian Religions (denominations), so why aren’t you a Catholic?
Hi Jimmy,
You’re a pretty smart guy, and we’ve conversed a lot, so you can probably guess my concerns as a Lutheran. You also probably know that I believe those divisions are declining, at least for me.
EDIT: You probably also know my hope in corporate reunion.
That said, generally speaking, how could any Protestant denomination be part of the “One” Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, if they are not Catholic?
While you and I are separated brothers, we are united by our baptism. I would also say that as a reformationist, I consider our current schism as temporary, and work and pray for unity, even union with the Patriarch of the West.
You would agree that the reason there exist so many different denominations, is because of different beliefs, different interpretations, and different expressions of Christianity.

If this were not so, then why isn’t there “One” Christian religion? For that matter, why isn’t there “One” Protestant denomination?
Simple answer, Jimmy, is sin. Sin on both sides of our current schism. As for other protestants, I pray for unity with them, as well.
And His peace to you, my friend.

Jon
 
All christians should love, help and respect each other. I believe when Jesus prayed to the Father and asked him to keep these united as one as He and the Father are one, He wanted one body of believers.

That has not been the case for a very long time and I believe it will never be again. We are where we are in history, we can’t go back.

We must find unity as much as possible and most of all love and respect each other. It is good to discuss our faith, but we cannot expect everyone to come to the RCC.

To make statements that others are all wrong and must join our church is a little outrageous. Mistakes were made years ago by all sides and we cannot go back and change that. We must go with what we feel God wants for us and let others do the same. We should pray for unity.

All that believe and worship Christ as the son of God and believe in their hearts they are doing God’s will are part of the universal body of Christ. Even if we don’t agree on all the fine print. God knows the hearts and minds of his followers and He will work it out in the end.

Discussions are great, but to insist that only your way is the correct way, can’t be pleasing to God.
 
I think Jon above answered remarkably well. A couple notes I would add:

Most Lutherans who understand their history, understand themselves as catholic Christians-- not Protestants. We accept the catholic faith as it is expressed in the historic creeds and the early councils. Our confessions are literally full of Patristic quotations (cf. Ambrose, Augustine, Cyprian, Chrysostom, etc.,) and what we tend to debate are Roman distinctives that emerge after the 8th or 9th centuries.

As for Luther himself, he was an Augustinian monk… and a very rigorous one, at that. He was ordained a priest, and at the University of Wittenburg achieved the highest level of theological education and certification available to the medieval Church. He was a doctor of the Holy Scriptures, and well versed in the theology of his time. As a Doctor of Scripture, he took an oath to teach and preach the Holy Scriptures as best and faithfully as he could-- an oath he took very seriously, and that drove him to confront the many abuses and errors of his day. He was aware of the Patristic traditions of Scriptural interpretation, and like many doctors of the Church, he had his favorites… and those he was less impressed with.

So, to be honest in our historical perspectives here, Christians who confess the catholic faith according to the Lutheran Confessions, did not just pop on the scene in the 16th century. We represent an understanding of the catholic faith that is simple and Christo-centric, Sacramental and moral. Many Lutherans pray Luther’s Small Catechism every day, which is just about identical to the contents of St. Augustine’s Enchiridion-- with the 10 commandments, the Apostle’s Creed, and the Lord’s Prayer framing our prayer discipline. Saying that Lutherans are a novelty starting with Luther and Romans go all the way back to Christ is just not true. Lutheran Christians are part of the western catholic Church, and we are united by faith and baptism with our brethren both in the west and the east. No Roman scholar I’m aware of would be so bold as to say that the Eastern Orthodox popped into existence after the Great Schism of 1054… and no legitimate Roman scholar should propose that the confessional positions of Lutheran Christians popped onto the scene in the 16th century, when many great Christians of antiquity shared their perspectives.

Anyway, I hope you’ll enjoy getting to know the Lutheran Reformation from a Lutheran perspective. Given a fair shake, you might come to the conclusion that much of what Lutherans confess is well within the pale of catholic theology, even if we’re less willing than some to venture into some pious opinions and practices common to our Roman friends. Of course, there are Lutherans like myself, that are much less disturbed by Roman distinctives than others… but that is born of my ongoing attempt to see Roman belief and practice in its best possible light. I encourage you to do the same with the Lutheran Confessions.

Grace and peace all 'round,
Brad
 
Hi Jimmy,
You’re a pretty smart guy, and we’ve conversed a lot, so you can probably guess my concerns as a Lutheran. You also probably know that I believe those divisions are declining, at least for me.
EDIT: You probably also know my hope in corporate reunion.

While you and I are separated brothers, we are united by our baptism. I would also say that as a reformationist, I consider our current schism as temporary, and work and pray for unity, even union with the Patriarch of the West.
Simple answer, Jimmy, is sin. Sin on both sides of our current schism. As for other protestants, I pray for unity with them, as well.

And His peace to you, my friend.

JonNice post Jon,

I have the same hopes that you do.

What differences are left, between your denomination and mine?

Additionally, considering that the Lutherans (I think? I don’t really know) have communion, confession, veneration of saints, liturgy schedule…maybe intersession…no problem with Mary or the Rosary…the Creed…I don’t know for sure, and please correct me if I’m wrong…How much is left?

How many did I get right? And, which ones did I forget? 😃

It seems to me that your denomination may have more in common with Catholicism than many other non-Catholic Christian denominations, especially the “Bible Alone Crowd”…

Am I right?

Thank you for your post,

Peace,

Jimmy
 
It seems to me that your denomination may have more in common with Catholicism than many other non-Catholic Christian denominations, especially the “Bible Alone Crowd”…
Sorry to but in, but is ‘sola scriptura’ not a lutheran concept?
 
Sorry to but in, but is ‘sola scriptura’ not a lutheran concept?
Hello grampben,

I’ll let a Lutheran provide the real answer…but…my understanding is the answer would be -“yes…sort of”.

Lutherans participated in Lutheran Sacraments like, Confession with Lutheran Priests, for example…don’t they? If so, that wouldn’t fall under "Sola Scriptura”, would it?

Thank you for your post.

Peace
 
Hello grampben,

I’ll let a Lutheran provide the real answer…but…my understanding is the answer would be -“yes…sort of”.

Lutherans participated in Lutheran Sacraments like, Confession with Lutheran Priests, for example…don’t they? If so, that wouldn’t fall under "Sola Scriptura”, would it?

Thank you for your post.

Peace
But that is still agreeable to scripture 😉

On the CA library, scripture is used to justify all catholic doctrine. Isn’t lutheranism based on the ‘solas’ - fide, gratia, scirptura, christus?
Yeah, let’s let the lutheran answer it lol
 
Nice post Jon,

I have the same hopes that you do.

What differences are left, between your denomination and mine?

Additionally, considering that the Lutherans (I think? I don’t really know) have communion, confession, veneration of saints, liturgy schedule…maybe intersession…no problem with Mary or the Rosary…the Creed…I don’t know for sure, and please correct me if I’m wrong…How much is left?

How many did I get right? And, which ones did I forget? 😃

It seems to me that your denomination may have more in common with Catholicism than many other non-Catholic Christian denominations, especially the “Bible Alone Crowd”…

Am I right?

Thank you for your post,

Peace,

Jimmy
Jimmy,
Yes to Eucharist, Confession and Holy Absolution, (understanding that Rome does not recognise our orders), we hold the BVM and saints in very high regard, our liturgy is quite similar to N.O. (not surprising since we got our liturgy from you 😃 ), all three creeds and the first 6 to 7 ecumenical councils.

We don’t practice intercession, and while our confessions oppose it, I personally am careful about practices going back to pre-schism.
Biggest issues are still:
continued clarification on justification (ongoing talks)
Power and primacy of the Pope
Sacrifice of the Mass (there is dialogue here, too)
Purgatory and Transubstantiation/Sacramental union
scripture and Tradition
Jimmy, when you think about where we were even 50 years ago, seems we’ve come a good way, and I think Benedict is a good man who really understands the Augsburg Confession.
Grampben mentioned sola scriptura. Our view is quite different from the American evangelical, Bible alone types. For us it means that scripture is the final norm of faith. We do not reject tradition, unless there is a contradiction of scripture. That’s why we accept the creeds and even our confessions, which Bible only folks would probably reject.
Jon
 
That’s why we accept the creeds and even our confessions, which Bible only folks would probably reject.

Jon
Same as most reformed traditions also, as well as anglicans of course.

(Not related to your post) I think a confusion of what protestantism is from American Catholics (and even American protestants) is that the independent, ‘Bible only’ baptists etc are what people think ‘protestantism’ is, and they also reach out a lot better than most mainline denominations in the USA. This is a marked contrast with Britain and Ireland.
 
Grampben,

I think you have a very good point. The terms for Protestants and Catholics are becoming confused, and I have a working theory that it’s related to a combination of 1) people don’t take the time to learn what words actually mean anymore, and 2) there’s been a concerted effort by some segments of society to either radically or subtly alter the common definition of terms for their own ends.

Classically, Lutherans have not understood themselves as “Protestants,” but as “Catholics.” I think our Anglican friends would say the same thing, and perhaps others as well. To fail to be catholic, in the Lutheran understanding, would make one a schismatic-- and no Lutheran who appreciates their history thinks of themselves as a schismatic. We confess unity in faith and the three great Sacraments, with Christ as the source and sum of all Christian expression. We heartily ring out the Athanasian Creed every Trinity Sunday, recounting the words, “This is the catholic faith, unless one holds it faithfully, he cannot be saved.”

But there’s been a lot of water under the proverbial bridge since the Reformation. One can argue how “catholic” the majority of contemporary Lutheran churches are, and frankly, you can find a lot of contemporary Lutherans who are much more comfortable with identifying as Protestants, having become comfortable with the state of division in the Church, and choosing to partner more with either a liberal rejection of Scripture or with a fundamentalist Anabaptist concept minimizing the Sacraments and valid Tradition. Frankly, most of the Lutheran churches in my area are either making sad attempts to look and feel like Willow Creek, or abandoning the Scriptures which crimp their perverted lifestyles. Also sad, is that the liberal theology that pushed this junk in 20th century Lutheranism, was alive and well in 20th century American Roman Catholicism, which for the most part left many catholic minded Lutherans thinking that the grass wasn’t much greener on the other side of the fence.

Quite frankly, Lutherans have been a mess for the last half of the 20th century, and we don’t look too promising heading into the 3rd millennium… and one might extend that analysis to the state of the entire American Christian experiment. The great Fr. Neuhaus, recently deceased, I believe gave as one of his driving reasons for moving into the Roman communion, that the major Lutheran communions had become content to leave their Reformation mission within the broader catholic context, and simply be content with being schismatic Protestants. Knowing that the authentic goal of Lutheran theology was always eventual repair and reunion of we separated brethren with Rome, he couldn’t abide the choice to remain Lutheran… even after decades of service to Lutherans as perhaps the pre-eminent theologian of our time. And, as a Roman, he continued to work in his priestly role, to draw Lutherans and Romans together, helping improve our understandings of each other, and to walk together in charity.

It will be interesting to me, as time goes by, and we find out whether Lutherans will choose, in their larger corporate bodies, to be schismatics or catholics. I remain a Lutheran only so long as I can work with the definition that I confess and practice a simple catholic faith, for the good of my neighbor and the glory of Christ. If or when that opportunity evaporates from the Lutheran communions, I will have some very difficult choices to make.

Peace.
 
Grampben,

I think you have a very good point. The terms for Protestants and Catholics are becoming confused, and I have a working theory that it’s related to a combination of 1) people don’t take the time to learn what words actually mean anymore, and 2) there’s been a concerted effort by some segments of society to either radically or subtly alter the common definition of terms for their own ends.

Classically, Lutherans have not understood themselves as “Protestants,” but as “Catholics.” I think our Anglican friends would say the same thing, and perhaps others as well. To fail to be catholic, in the Lutheran understanding, would make one a schismatic-- and no Lutheran who appreciates their history thinks of themselves as a schismatic. We confess unity in faith and the three great Sacraments, with Christ as the source and sum of all Christian expression. We heartily ring out the Athanasian Creed every Trinity Sunday, recounting the words, “This is the catholic faith, unless one holds it faithfully, he cannot be saved.”

But there’s been a lot of water under the proverbial bridge since the Reformation. One can argue how “catholic” the majority of contemporary Lutheran churches are, and frankly, you can find a lot of contemporary Lutherans who are much more comfortable with identifying as Protestants, having become comfortable with the state of division in the Church, and choosing to partner more with either a liberal rejection of Scripture or with a fundamentalist Anabaptist concept minimizing the Sacraments and valid Tradition. Frankly, most of the Lutheran churches in my area are either making sad attempts to look and feel like Willow Creek, or abandoning the Scriptures which crimp their perverted lifestyles. Also sad, is that the liberal theology that pushed this junk in 20th century Lutheranism, was alive and well in 20th century American Roman Catholicism, which for the most part left many catholic minded Lutherans thinking that the grass wasn’t much greener on the other side of the fence.

Quite frankly, Lutherans have been a mess for the last half of the 20th century, and we don’t look too promising heading into the 3rd millennium… and one might extend that analysis to the state of the entire American Christian experiment. The great Fr. Neuhaus, recently deceased, I believe gave as one of his driving reasons for moving into the Roman communion, that the major Lutheran communions had become content to leave their Reformation mission within the broader catholic context, and simply be content with being schismatic Protestants. Knowing that the authentic goal of Lutheran theology was always eventual repair and reunion of we separated brethren with Rome, he couldn’t abide the choice to remain Lutheran… even after decades of service to Lutherans as perhaps the pre-eminent theologian of our time. And, as a Roman, he continued to work in his priestly role, to draw Lutherans and Romans together, helping improve our understandings of each other, and to walk together in charity.

It will be interesting to me, as time goes by, and we find out whether Lutherans will choose, in their larger corporate bodies, to be schismatics or catholics. I remain a Lutheran only so long as I can work with the definition that I confess and practice a simple catholic faith, for the good of my neighbor and the glory of Christ. If or when that opportunity evaporates from the Lutheran communions, I will have some very difficult choices to make.

Peace.
Thank you for the excellent post stbruderklaus!

I agree with a majority of your sentiments, expressed here. For me though, it may bother and irritate me that some have betrayed and harmed the Catholic Church. It may even make me mad, when some, especially here in the U.S., cause trouble and take it upon themselves to try to change the Catholic Church, to suit their own personal needs or agenda but none of this ever challenges my own faith.

I don’t view Catholicism based on Catholic people, I view Catholicism, based on the model created by Christ, which is rooted in Holy Scripture, Christian history, Holy Tradition, Christian teachings and the Holy Sacraments and so on.

I do not view Catholicism as an “American” Church. I view it, as it actually is, a global, eternal Church. My faith isn’t affected by what the “bad” Catholics do or don’t do. I don’t care that relativism has tried to sneak its way into the Church, because I know that the Church, started by Christ, will prevail.

I also know that the Catholic Church is eternal and that change does not occur, “overnight”. The Catholic Church is like a large ship in the ocean. A large ship can turn completely around and go in the opposite direction but it cannot “turn on a dime”…everything “Catholic”, takes time.

The fact that change within Catholicism takes time, is a good thing, it cuts down on mistakes. Unfortunately, today people are more impatient than ever and we live in a world where people have come accustom to instance gratification and instant change.

Ecumenicalism is a good example of this impatience. There are many today, who want and think that it will occur in their own lifetime. Maybe it will and maybe it won’t but that is not something that the individual Catholic should be overly concerned about.

Continued on next post.
 
Whether or not, the Lutheran Church unites with the Catholic Church, for instance, has no affect on my soul. It would be nice but it doesn’t affect my soul.

There are too many today, caught up in all sorts of issues, which have no bearing whatsoever, on their own salvation, politics is a good example of this. This would include the politics in religion.

Today, we are at the point where Christians dislike other Christians, because they won’t convert or agree with their particular denomination.

Generally speaking, defending your own faith is one thing but hating another Christian because he is not like you is another and this is what occurs when we get caught up in the moment and confuse “Catholic people” or “non-Catholic Christian people” (members) with the Catholic/Christian faith.

One should not be waiting for that “final straw” or for the “next shoe to drop”, to decide whether or not they will abandon their current faith to embrace another. Either the religion or denomination represents the fullest, truest expression of Christianity or it doesn’t. They cannot not all be right.

The Catholic Church, the one with the Pope and Apostolic succession is that Church. This is supported by Holy Scripture, Christian history, Christian tradition and by its “fruits”. If one is searching for the true Church of Christ, then Christian history and the Sacraments are a good place to start.

Thank you for your post.

 
Whether or not, the Lutheran Church unites with the Catholic Church, for instance, has no affect on my soul. It would be nice but it doesn’t affect my soul.

There are too many today, caught up in all sorts of issues, which have no bearing whatsoever, on their own salvation, politics is a good example of this. This would include the politics in religion.

Today, we are at the point where Christians dislike other Christians, because they won’t convert or agree with their particular denomination.

Generally speaking, defending your own faith is one thing but hating another Christian because he is not like you is another and this is what occurs when we get caught up in the moment and confuse “Catholic people” or “non-Catholic Christian people” (members) with the Catholic/Christian faith.

One should not be waiting for that “final straw” or for the “next shoe to drop”, to decide whether or not they will abandon their current faith to embrace another. Either the religion or denomination represents the fullest, truest expression of Christianity or it doesn’t. They cannot not all be right.

The Catholic Church, the one with the Pope and Apostolic succession is that Church. This is supported by Holy Scripture, Christian history, Christian tradition and by its “fruits”. If one is searching for the true Church of Christ, then Christian history and the Sacraments are a good place to start.

Thank you for your post.
Jimmy,
Just a brief response. I think what you’ll find from people like Brad and me is we don’t expect the CC to compromise its faith. Unity based on compromise or submission is a house of cards that will eventually collapse.
Instead, true ecumenism is a frank dialogue where parties seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit to find a way to express what the truth is. I firmly believe that many of the differences we have can be reconciled in the way. I believe the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification is an excellent example. While not complete, the JDDJ has built a foundation of commonality that can bridge us to the next step.
My prayer is that we can find more and more ways to say the most beautiful words in ecumenism" “Together we confess…”

While you and I may believe that our indivdual souls are not effected by whether or not our communions reunite, I’m sure you’ll agree with me the Church Militant is indeed effected, wounded, by our separation, and we must do all we can to heal that wound.
While our leaders discuss the big issues that they know better than you or I, we can serve the cause of unity simply by having frank, open, charitable and loving conversations like this one.
I’m so happy you are back that we may continue our chats and friendship. And I pray for the day that we can share His Holy Supper together.

Jon
 
Jimmy,
Just a brief response. I think what you’ll find from people like Brad and me is we don’t expect the CC to compromise its faith. Unity based on compromise or submission is a house of cards that will eventually collapse.
Instead, true ecumenism is a frank dialogue where parties seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit to find a way to express what the truth is. I firmly believe that many of the differences we have can be reconciled in the way. I believe the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification is an excellent example. While not complete, the JDDJ has built a foundation of commonality that can bridge us to the next step.
My prayer is that we can find more and more ways to say the most beautiful words in ecumenism" “Together we confess…”

While you and I may believe that our indivdual souls are not effected by whether or not our communions reunite, I’m sure you’ll agree with me the Church Militant is indeed effected, wounded, by our separation, and we must do all we can to heal that wound.
While our leaders discuss the big issues that they know better than you or I, we can serve the cause of unity simply by having frank, open, charitable and loving conversations like this one.
I’m so happy you are back that we may continue our chats and friendship. And I pray for the day that we can share His Holy Supper together.

Jon
Well said,

Me too…thank you!

Jimmy
 
Wow, bro-- gotta admit that one hit me out of left field.

First, orthodox Lutherans do not think themselves Protestants-- we’re catholics of a simpler, confession-- Gospel and Christ centered, with a simple piety.

Second, we celebrate the Mass in worship as well, centered on the revelation of Christ in both Word and Sacrament. We confess the real presence of Christ in, with, and under the elements of bread and wine, and we receive this divine Sacrifice with great reverence, penetence, and awe.

Third, we reverence Mary as well-- though perhaps not with the same particular devotions common among Roman Christians. We confess her as Mother of God, and as such a kind of universal Mother to all the household of faith, since all those who believe and are baptized are part of the Body of Christ and His One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

I don’t accuse Romans of worshipping Mary based on the teachings of the Catechism… though, I would suggest, as some Roman bishops have also suggested, that if superstition gets out of hand, proper piety can turn into idolatry. I like to think that our Blessed Mother has come into our home, too… I think my wife may have even caught a glimpse of her, after a particularly harrowing event in our lives. As Lutheran priest, struggling in my sinful humanity to speak and act in persona Christi for those given to my charge, I also sense a very strong maternal bond with the Mother of my Lord.

Not sure what you’re fighting against, bro… I don’t think the points you raise are fairly leveled at confessional Lutheran Christians.

Cheers.
 
MISSA PRO ECCLESIA

FIRST MESSAGE OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI
AT THE END OF THE EUCHARISTIC CONCELEBRATION
WITH THE MEMBERS OF THE COLLEGE OF CARDINALS

*IN THE SISTINE CHAPEL *
Wednesday, 20 April 2005

“The current Successor of Peter is allowing himself to be called in the first person by this requirement and is prepared to do everything in his power to promote the fundamental cause of ecumenism. Following the example of his Predecessors, he is fully determined to encourage every initiative that seems appropriate for promoting contacts and understanding with the representatives of the different Churches and Ecclesial Communities. Indeed, on this occasion he sends them his most cordial greeting in Christ, the one Lord of us all.”


vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/messages/pont-messages/2005/documents/hf_ben-xvi_mes_20050420_missa-pro-ecclesia_en.html
Ephesians 4:4-6

4 one body and one Spirit, as you were also called to the one hope of your call;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/ephesians/ephesians4.htm
Catechism of the Catholic Church

899 The initiative of lay Christians is necessary especially when the matter involves discovering or inventing the means for permeating social, political, and economic realities with the demands of Christian doctrine and life. This initiative is a normal element of the life of the Church:

Lay believers are in the front line of Church life; for them the Church is the animating principle of human society. Therefore, they in particular ought to have an ever-clearer consciousness not only of belonging to the Church, but of being the Church, that is to say, the community of the faithful on earth under the leadership of the Pope, the common Head, and of the bishops in communion with him. They are the Church.

937 The Pope enjoys, by divine institution, “supreme, full, immediate, and universal power in the care of souls” (*CD *2).

100The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him.

2034The Roman Pontiff and the bishops are “authentic teachers, that is, teachers endowed with the authority of Christ, who preach the faith to the people entrusted to them, the faith to be believed and put into practice.” The *ordinary *and universal *Magisterium *of the Pope and the bishops in communion with him teach the faithful the truth to believe, the charity to practice, the beatitude to hope for.

881The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the “rock” of his Church. He gave him the keys of his Church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock. “The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of apostles united to its head.” This pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the Church’s very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope.

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
 
Thank you for the quotes and references. That does help keep the Roman position in clear view.

The speach from Pope Benedict XVI was particularly moving-- many thanks for providing that link. Every time I read something from him, I have a swell of affection for him.

As for the references to the Roman catechism regarding the Petrine office and the legitimacy of the Church only in concert with him… that’s probably the biggest issue that non-Roman Christians of every stripe need to work out with our Roman brethren-- from Eastern Orthodox to the Churches of the Reformation, that has been the single biggest stumbling block to Christian unity for over a 1000 years.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again-- when we have a Pope like Benedict or JPII, it is much easier for the non-Roman world to imagine him as our universal Pastor, and Servant of the Servants of God. I think many of us, however, read an intention in the Catechism that may or may not be there, harkening back to a time when the Pope assumed total and unquestioned domination of the world.

Perhaps what we need is what was referenced in that speach of Benedict-- a purification of memory.

Peace, and thanks again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top