Why won't the Catholic bishops solve the 'gay priest problem?'

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

puzzleannie:

Celibacy means “unmarried” a man can be celibate and still be unchaste, abusing himself, women, other men, or children.

Actually celibacy does mean abstention from sexual intercourse too.

It is one of the second acceptable definitions of the word from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary.

 

[Sgt.Howie]

puzzleannie:

using the terms “gay” and “homosexual” interchangeably is offensive to the many courageous men and women struggling with the burden of homosexual inclination and temptations, many of whom are living lives of heroic virtue and chastity.

Yeah, well, in my world – the real one, by the way – “gay” and “homosexual” mean the same thing.

 

[Pug]

Do all of you people live under a Rock? Priest have the highest rate of death from AIDS than any other Profession. I will put links here from the Kansas City Newspaper which ran a series as well as USA today, where I got mine as well as some Catholic sites

50% is the number -like it or not

http://www.christianitytoday.com /ct/2000/106/26.0.html

The study from the Star is unhelpful in determining the actual number of current priests in the US suffering from aids. Seven priests out of 801 said they had aids or suspect they might. This has little meaning because it was a voluntary survey with a response rate of 27%, and there seems to have been no serious attempt to examine the non-respondant population. This could be exactly the sort of survey where a person with aids or suspects it is unusually likely to respond. See the text of the survey here.

If, hypothetically, all the priests with aids or possible aids responded from the original 3000, then that would be about 1 out of 425 rate. That is not some number to make one worry about the priesthood. The article tells us the rates are like 1 in 420 or 1 in 300 for the US regular folks. So it is even possible that priests are a little better off on the aids thing (but I doubt it). I doubt all of the ones with aids or possible aids responded.

 

[BulldogCath]

Actual surveys: http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul2d.gifIn the Fall of 1999, the Kansas City Star sent a questionnaire to 3,000 priests in the U.S. 73% did not reply. The low response rate could be anticipated. One would expect homosexuals and bisexuals to be reluctant to respond to the questionnaire since it deals with such a sensitive issue, and originated from a newspaper. Homosexual and bisexual priests would probably be less likely to reply to the survey. Among the 801 priests who did reply: http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul3d.gif75% said they had a heterosexual orientation;http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul3d.gif15% homosexual;http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul3d.gif5% bisexual. 9http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul2d.gifDuring 1990, Rev. Thomas Crangle, a Franciscan priest in Passaic, N.J., mailed a survey to 500 randomly selected priests. Of the 398 responses, about 45% said that they were gay. 10
Conclusion: If we assume that all of the estimates are of equal validity, then about 33% of priests have a homosexual orientation – about one in three.

However, as Father Donald Cozzens has written: *“Beyond these estimates, of course, are priests who remain confused about their orientation and men who have so successfully denied their orientation, that in spite of predominately same-sex erotic fantasies, they insist that they are heterosexual.” *11 Many regard themselves as not homosexual because they have never acted on their fantasies, desire and orientation. To that might be added an unknown percentage of priests who have a bisexual orientation.

QUOTE=Pug]The study from the Star is unhelpful in determining the actual number of current priests in the US suffering from aids. Seven priests out of 801 said they had aids or suspect they might. This has little meaning because it was a voluntary survey with a response rate of 27%, and there seems to have been no serious attempt to examine the non-respondant population. This could be exactly the sort of survey where a person with aids or suspects it is unusually likely to respond. See the text of the survey here.

If, hypothetically, all the priests with aids or possible aids responded from the original 3000, then that would be about 1 out of 425 rate. That is not some number to make one worry about the priesthood. The article tells us the rates are like 1 in 420 or 1 in 300 for the US regular folks. So it is even possible that priests are a little better off on the aids thing (but I doubt it). I doubt all of the ones with aids or possible aids responded.

 

[Pug]

Heterosexual 77.6%
Homosexual 14.9%
Bisexual 5.2%
Other 2.3%

I always wonder about the “other” in a list like this.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

The Kansas City Star is a bigoted, Catholic-baiting hate rag and has been for years. It, like most of the major media, already has a ready-made template regarding the Church, i.e.:

1. The Church is medieval in her doctrines and disciplines.
2. Catholics who actually believe Church doctrines and try to follow them are ignorant, reactionary luddites.
3. The Church has oppressed women, Jews, native peoples and anyone else she could for centuries.
4. The Church is opposed to scientific progress and acquisition of knowledge.
5. Catholics are sexually repressed because of antiquated sexual mores forced on them by celibate old men.

Therefore, they take this template and apply it always to the Church, and thus every story in the media is designed to fit into that template and reinforce it in the minds of the common herd.

I’m surprised at you, Bulldog. Don’t you recognize the agenda being pushed here? The Church has some major problems, yes. But I’m not going to act like Chicken Little based on a phony survey ginned up by anti-Catholic hate mongers.

 

[BulldogCath]

Doctor

I am not using the KC star as my only source, as USA today was also listed as well as one catholic source. But lets all be real here. We know there is a problem with the abuse scandal. When I go to NO Mass or watch it on Telicare here in NY which I guess shares viewing with EWTN as they are on the same channel, I cant help but listen to the priest talk in the effimanate voice and as man, have my suspicions.

The problem with getting a truly accurate number is difficult because:

• The media is secular and Jewish and hates the church
• The Vatican basically denies the crisis is as bad as it is
• The USCB is a weak organization, many of whose memebers are homosexual themselves and who were responsible for the “priest shuffling”
• And worse yet-if the Bishops or Vatican admits to knowingly ordaning homosexuals, then they have broke Canon Law

So it is difficult to get a dead on stat-but it is between 30-50% in most peoples opinion, and that is 30-50% to many probably. And my reasoning is that if a heterosexual priest “falls” he most likely will go for a woman and not an adolescent. All studies on homosexuality indicated that homosexuals gravitate towards the youth (NAMBLA) and hence pedophilia and abuse scandals.

Let us never forget what Our Lord says in the Book of Matthew and Mark about the youth and scandal “It is better for them to have a Millstone attached around thier neck” If this is scripture, how can these priests not be defrocked?

I understand in the pre-Vatican II church they would have been defrocked immediately! And I mean from Pope Pius XII back that is.

Actual surveys: http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul2d.gifIn the Fall of 1999, the Kansas City Star sent a questionnaire to 3,000 priests in the U.S. 73% did not reply. The low response rate could be anticipated. One would expect homosexuals and bisexuals to be reluctant to respond to the questionnaire since it deals with such a sensitive issue, and originated from a newspaper. Homosexual and bisexual priests would probably be less likely to reply to the survey. Among the 801 priests who did reply: http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul3d.gif75% said they had a heterosexual orientation;http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul3d.gif15% homosexual;http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul3d.gif5% bisexual. 9http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topbul2d.gifDuring 1990, Rev. Thomas Crangle, a Franciscan priest in Passaic, N.J., mailed a survey to 500 randomly selected priests. Of the 398 responses, about 45% said that they were gay. 10
Conclusion: If we assume that all of the estimates are of equal validity, then about 33% of priests have a homosexual orientation – about one in three.

However, as Father Donald Cozzens has written: *“Beyond these estimates, of course, are priests who remain confused about their orientation and men who have so successfully denied their orientation, that in spite of predominately same-sex erotic fantasies, they insist that they are heterosexual.” *11 Many regard themselves as not homosexual because they have never acted on their fantasies, desire and orientation. To that might be added an unknown percentage of priests who have a bisexual orientation.

QUOTE=Pug]The study from the Star is unhelpful in determining the actual number of current priests in the US suffering from aids. Seven priests out of 801 said they had aids or suspect they might. This has little meaning because it was a voluntary survey with a response rate of 27%, and there seems to have been no serious attempt to examine the non-respondant population. This could be exactly the sort of survey where a person with aids or suspects it is unusually likely to respond. See the text of the survey here.

If, hypothetically, all the priests with aids or possible aids responded from the original 3000, then that would be about 1 out of 425 rate. That is not some number to make one worry about the priesthood. The article tells us the rates are like 1 in 420 or 1 in 300 for the US regular folks. So it is even possible that priests are a little better off on the aids thing (but I doubt it). I doubt all of the ones with aids or possible aids responded.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Ohhhhhhhh…Bulldog. :nope: I know you aren’t judging a man as homosexual because he speaks with a lisp, are you?

Of course the Church has a problem. I would characterize it as a predatory homosexual scandal rather than a pedophilia scandal. Even that old reprobate and Church hater Don Imus recognizes that.

But the secular media has a problem too. That is, a built in anti-Catholic bias. I take everything I see with a huge grain of salt.

And I believe that any priest who is found guilty of abusing children is defrocked. Am I wrong???

 

[vegpotter]

Sgt. Howie:

As far as I’m concerned, there is no gay priest “problem” as long as our gay priests remain celibate. If you’re celibate, what difference does it make whether you’re straight or gay?

It says in the Catechism that gay people are called to chastity, and if they practice chastity, they are just as capable of achieving Christian perfection as straight people are. THIS IS OFFICIAL CHURCH TEACHING. Again, I say if a gay priest is celibate, his sexual preference is a non-issue.

Homosexuality is not the problem. Breaking the vow of celibacy is.

I agree with this completely. How do we find out if a priest is gay or straight? I don’t care what my priest’s sexual leanings were, as long as he’s not acting on them. Celibacy is the issue, any priest who violates that, whether with a woman or a man, should not be allowed to be a priest.

 

[space_ghost]

…last i heard they had a zero tollerance policy on the subject… has that changed?

 

[benedictusoblat]

I suspect one reason the bishops don’t do more to solve this problem is because it would require terminating people from the ministry. These are people they work with, even people they may have close relationships with. And that doesn’t necessarily include people that some bishops may have very close relationships with.

These days I think bishops are chosen for their management skills, not any apparent holiness or wisdom they may possess. Still, some wise and holy men are found who also have management expertise. Good managers who are not particularly holy are not going to root out the homosexuals from their ranks, especially when they know that they will just have to work that much harder to replace the bad apples they toss from the diocesan barrel.

It is a terrible quandary. It really requires conversion of heart which requires grace from God which will probably not happen without more prayer on our part and less time spent on this forum tonight. So, I bid you goodnight!
Benedicite,
Benedictusoblatus

 

[Zosimus]

Personally I believe sexuality is a state of mind.

If I was to say I like blondes better than red heads is that genetic or conditioning?

Love is Love wether your talking about the love you have for your child or the love you have for your spouse.

Attraction is all in your head. How can you be sexually attracted to the same sex before puberty?

Can the murders and thieves give the same exscuse? I was born to steal or kill therefore you can no longer hold me responsable for my actions…It may be the politically correct thing to say but God isnt politically correct thats mans silly way of being stuborn to do what he wants however God is never chaging and when he says dont do it thats just what he means.

 

[stbruno]

What is wrong with being homosexual and celibate? If they take a vow of celibacy…both heterosexual and homosexual men and keep their vow there is no problem in the ideal situation. They are living what the church has asked of them. St.Frances of DeSales, an early church father wrote something very profound which eases and gladdens my heart whenever I hear about an abuse in the church.
Our Sacraments are priest proof…he said, if he was to receive the Holy Eucharist from a priest who was unworthy or unbelieving, he would still receive it, because Christ comes to us in the Holy Eucharist…that is a reality. It is better to have the Eucharist available to us, than not. If it is available, the world and we personally have a greater chance of converting those who are sinners.

 

[Dr.Bombay]

Homosexuality is a psychological disorder (also an intrinsic moral evil as our Holy Father called it). It requires years of treatment to overcome. In some cases, it can’t be overcome at all.

A man with a psychological disorder has no business becoming a priest. Period.