Please define “worship” as you mean it in this discussion.
I wonder if this response to the OP is given as an argument his/her opponent would understand, or if it is what you actually believe. That is because it seems unusual to me to say that the goal of life is “to be happy, come out on top,” especially for a Catholic. I thought the goal of life is to make others happy by caring for them, alleviating their suffering, and loving them. Not that our personal goal should be suffering; but on the other hand, suffering for a noble cause is not something to be avoided necessarily. Isn’t that part of the Catholic perspective? I agree more with your second paragraph, except for your final statement that the OP’s friend won’t find peace in the next life if they rebel against G-d. This too seems to be opposed to what Catholicism teaches by judging others without sufficient knowledge. Is this statement also for the benefit of the person who is arguing against the proposition that it is essential to worship G-d; in other words, so that they will understand what you’re saying. Nonetheless, arguing in favor of a position which is not consistent with Catholic teaching doesn’t seem to be the best way to do it.
Yes, I was trying to adapt pascal’s wager to the situation and make it appeal to an atheist’s senses. I don’t believe we are trying to simply play a game and beat out God.
I think Heuchler was stating, correct me if I am wrong Heuchler, the “argument from desire”, in reducible terms. That nothing truly satisfies our lives in this world, but the desire to fulfill that need and to feel happy and satisfied does exist. In a sense, Heuchler is right that our goal is to fully realize our happiness, the way to go about that is to do His will. “You arouse us so that praising you may bring us joy, because you have made us and drawn us to Yourself, and our heart is unquiet until it rests in You” (St. Augustine). As a Catholic to a Jew, we can both fully agree that His will for us is “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole strength” (Deut 6:5).
It seems like some people expect God to be some type of babysitter, making sure people don’t misbehave, and smite murderers and rapists on the spot (I bet they’d complain about that too though); and rain down free food to all when in reality there already is enough food for everyone, and it is only us humans to blame for the corruption of the world.
This is a question I’ve been asked on Facebook. I’ve discussed and debated on this topic, however I’m hoping that someone else has good arguments which support the fact that we should worship God.
One comment which basically elaborates on the position of the opponent I am debating:
It’s past time for bed, but I have a couple of thoughts. (I hope it comes out coherently!)
From the little I know of this discussion it sounds like an uphill battle in that you both have completly opposite world views. If your opponent can not understand that God sends things our way or allows them to happen for the good of our immortal souls, then there is a real problem right from the root of the debate.
- Often I find that when people get involved in debates they neglect to identify their underlying assumptions. I see from the quote you provided that the unbeliever only considers the physical world. Has he/she been made aware that you are talking about the spiritual world and eternity?
I say this because- God (“if He exists”) is protecting us against eternal damnation. Eternal damnation is far, far worse than any of the physical evils that are described in the bit I’ve quoted above.
If it helps at all I recommend Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence for your own edification. An atheist cannot relate to this, but it may help you better understand the Catholic POV and possibly lead you towards another line of reasoning.
Basically we worship God because He made us, He died for us, He knows every hair on our heads, He knows all and is all loving.
With His infinite Love and Knowledge he makes sure that what He sends us or what He allows to happen to us via someone’s sinfulness IS FOR THE GOOD OF OUR IMMORTAL SOUL. We may not be able to see this during our life here on earth as we do not see the whole picture. We are not here to be happy. We have to trust God in ALL situations.
I’m rambling. Goodnight.
Precisely. Neither the fear of punishment nor the anticipation of reward should motivate our worship of G-d. It is done out of deep appreciation, communion, and love.
I think one main goal of life has to be happiness-it’s really an almost unconscious, automatic pursuit or drive. The question for us is how do we achieve it? As for Catholicism, the Catechism teaches that this desire is good-that it’s placed in man by God. There are many such references in the Catechism. The Sermon on the Mount also concerns this very matter and the Beatific Vision is said to produce ineffable happiness in man. I’d even venture to say that God must be happy by nature, and would have to wonder what good it would do for us to go around helping others if we didn’t ultimately end up happier-more well-off in some such manner, in the end.