Calvinism does not deny freewill. However it believes that in the unregenerate that freewill was bound by man’s fallen nature. Man in his fallen state man will never choose God because his nature will not allow his will to go in that direction. An analogy often used is that of a tiger. A tiger is by nature carnivorous. If you put a plate of meat and a plate of hay in front of the tiger, it will always choose the meat because of its nature. The choice to pick the hay exists but will never be exercised unless the nature is changed.
A major premise of Calvinism is the total sovereignty of God. If God is to be sovereign then His will must be the cause of everything. If man could choose salvation then they believe man’s will would prevail over God’s. If salvation was up to man’s free choice then Christ’s sacrifice actually saved no one; it merely caused the potentiality for salvation. If God’s eternal choice has predestined some to salvation, then Christ’s death is effective in actually saving them.
Well, I’m not an expert on Calvinism, but all the Calvinists that I come across and or debate do deny free will (
example). And you’re right, they love to speak of it in exalted terms like the “sovereignty of God”! But do you know why that is? Its because heretics love to cover their poison with honey - the “sovereignty of God” tastes sweet in your mouth, but the denial of free will becomes bitter in your stomach (cf. Rev. 10:10).
What St. Augustine taught - what the Catholic Church teaches is not a difficult concept to grasp. Man cannot do good works without the grace of God, so in that sense we do not have the free will to do
good without God’s grace. But you know what?
“For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.” (Titus 2:11)
God offers Christ’s salvific grace to all people, because “God does not show favoritism.” (Romans 2:11) But it is up to us, of our own free will, to cooperate with His grace, that He has freely given us, not based on merit, so that we can stay in His grace.
Augustin did, as well… So, are you saying that you don’t think he was rational?
Disclaimer:
I also reject the heresy of DOUBLE predestination (not to be confused with “normal” Predestination…). Thinking that God has predestined some people to go to hell is…yeah if there was a stronger word than “blasphemous”, I’d use that…
I’m not sure what you meant above, but I hope you’re not saying that St. Augustine taught “double predestination”, or that he denied free will. He said, in the aforementioned book (Ch.5):
“But who of us will say that by the sin of the first man free will perished from the human race?”
He was responding to Julian (a Pelagian), who also twisted Augustine’s words to make him deny free will, as the Calvinists do, except they do so to support their doctrine. So Augustine’s message here is for them as well (Ch. 9):
“Away, then, with the notion that in my book that man should read anything opposed to these divine testimonies! But either by not understanding, or rather by calumniating, he seeks to twist what he reads into another meaning.”
Now, ironically, I had not read this treatise by Augustine before, and yet…
“But against the Pelagians also, not without reason, we pronounce an anathema, for that they are so hostile to God’s grace, which comes through Jesus Christ our Lord, as to say that it is given not freely, but according to our merits, and thus grace is no more grace; [Romans 11:6] and place so much in free will by which man is plunged into the abyss, as to say that by making good use of it man deserves grace—although no man can make good use of it except by grace, which is not repaid according to debt, but is given freely by God’s mercy. And they so contend that infants are already saved, that they dare deny that they are to be saved by the Saviour. And holding and disseminating these execrable dogmas, they still over and above constantly demand a hearing, when, as condemned, they ought to repent.” (Ch. 42)
Again, can we agree on:
15.In faith we together hold the conviction that justification is the work of the triune God. The Father sent his Son into the world to save sinners. The foundation and presupposition of justification is the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ. Justification thus means that Christ himself is our righteousness, in which we share through the Holy Spirit in accord with the will of the Father. Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.
our justification - which was a free gift from God, not based on merit - just as the Prodigal Son squandered his inheritance. In fact, the parable of the Prodigal Son neatly sums up Catholic soteriology. And all of this demonstrates why nobody can object to infant Baptism, since no merit is required.
Completely agree.
Luke65;5378235:
Wunderbar!
)), but there is a world of difference between God knowing every free will decision we will ever make and God not giving us free will. And you will never find any Church Father or Doctor, Sts. Augustine and Aquinas included, who said that we do not have free will, which is the cornerstone of Calvinism. And so where you see a tiny gap, I see a gap you could drive a Mack truck through!
:hypno::coffeeread:
:thumbsup: But when people can’t think theologically, & are capable only of sicking up Bible verses, they are not in a good position to appreciate the theology behind doctrines 
.
I could be wrong.