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TexanKnight
Guest
that the LDS Church was a restoration. It isn’t. It is a church chock full of false doctrine
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TexanKnight
Guest
except Bruce R McKonkie CALLED the Catholic Church the Great and Abominable Church…ever heard of him?As the highlighted passage shows, that was a reference to what it calls the “professors”. It means the ministers, preachers, activists of the respective churches; not the churches themselves. It refers to those who were trying to “build up churches unto themselves,” as the Lord has said elsewhere. By “their creeds” is also meant the same thing. It is referring to those “professors,” not the churches themselves. And interestingly, they were all Protestant churches, not Catholic. The Catholic Church itself was a persecuted minority in America in those days.
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TexanKnight
Guest
yep…the same thing offered to prisoners…Speaking of Methodists, what do Mormons have against grape juice? Methodists offer little cubes of bread and grape juice for their communion, but Mormons only offer bread and water.
think about it
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TexanKnight
Guest
shoulda had more faith God would protect them while adhering to the commandment of Christ to use wineAlso another reason why it changed was because the wine that was being purchased for the sacrament was being poisened, and the fields that grew the wine for the church were destroyed so the elders sat down and asked God what they should do for the sacrament. Thats when D&C 27 came around
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TexanKnight
Guest
this falls under the warning from God about “if any man preaches a different Gospel”Doctrine and Covenants 27: 2-5
2 For, behold, I say unto you, that it mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory—remembering unto the Father my body which was laid down for you, and my blood which was shed for the remission of your sins.
3 Wherefore, a commandment I give unto you, that you shall not purchase wine neither strong drink of your enemies;
4 Wherefore, you shall partake of none except it is made new among you; yea, in this my Father’s kingdom which shall be built up on the earth.
5 Behold, this is wisdom in me; wherefore, marvel not, for the hour cometh that I will drink of the fruit of the vine with you on the earth, and with Moroni, whom I have sent unto you to reveal the Book of Mormon, containing the fulness of my everlasting gospel, to whom I have committed the keys of the record of the stick of Ephraim;
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litldog2
Guest
My aunt, who was very interested in her Catholic religion, just never got any good answers from her Church or Pastor. She was very interested in the Bible, but the Bible wasn’t really taught in the Catholic Church. So, back in the early 1970s, she and her two sons along with a daughter became JW’s. She is still one of JW’s after all these years. And the two sons and one daughter who became JW’s are all solid in their faith and happily married. The one son (a Catholic) has divorced his wife and is living with a woman.
I saw how happy she was and around 1990, I, too, started studying with the Witnesses. Their Bible Study is next to none. They have a real sense of community. Their religion is based on the first three hundred years of Christianity.
About 1995, I started to come back to the Catholic Church. I can tell you that without that basic knowledge of the Bible given me by JW’s, I would never understand the Catholic Church. I started reading Scott Hahn and started to discover apologetics. I believe I’m a better Catholic for having been a Jehovah’s Witness and I believe those with real solid Bible knowledge understand the Catholic Church better, especially after having studied the traditions, early church fathers, etc.
Sadly, the Church has failed to teach the faith. I’ve been to several Bible Studies given by the Catholic Church and not one of them has satisfied me. I’ve taught RCIA and was shocked to find that one of the woman teaching RCIA didn’t know that Jesus was a Jew!
While we on these boards may be a bit more educated when it comes to why the Catholic Church teaches what it does, I believe we should be thinking more along the lines of exactly what is the Church teaching? Do we ever hear in homilies that it’s wrong to live with each other before marriage? Do we ever question two older people living together because of financial situations or do we just ‘wink wink’…it’s okay, God will forgive? I think it’s wrong to attack Jehovah’s Witnesses and/or Mormons based on what they do, i.e., knock door to door. Isn’t that what Jesus taught his disciples? Perhaps as Catholics we should be more like Jehovah’s Witnesses. Quite frankly, I don’t see a sense of community in many Catholic Churches. What I did see in my hall at least was a loving group of people who live, breath, and preach Bible principles.
I saw how happy she was and around 1990, I, too, started studying with the Witnesses. Their Bible Study is next to none. They have a real sense of community. Their religion is based on the first three hundred years of Christianity.
About 1995, I started to come back to the Catholic Church. I can tell you that without that basic knowledge of the Bible given me by JW’s, I would never understand the Catholic Church. I started reading Scott Hahn and started to discover apologetics. I believe I’m a better Catholic for having been a Jehovah’s Witness and I believe those with real solid Bible knowledge understand the Catholic Church better, especially after having studied the traditions, early church fathers, etc.
Sadly, the Church has failed to teach the faith. I’ve been to several Bible Studies given by the Catholic Church and not one of them has satisfied me. I’ve taught RCIA and was shocked to find that one of the woman teaching RCIA didn’t know that Jesus was a Jew!
While we on these boards may be a bit more educated when it comes to why the Catholic Church teaches what it does, I believe we should be thinking more along the lines of exactly what is the Church teaching? Do we ever hear in homilies that it’s wrong to live with each other before marriage? Do we ever question two older people living together because of financial situations or do we just ‘wink wink’…it’s okay, God will forgive? I think it’s wrong to attack Jehovah’s Witnesses and/or Mormons based on what they do, i.e., knock door to door. Isn’t that what Jesus taught his disciples? Perhaps as Catholics we should be more like Jehovah’s Witnesses. Quite frankly, I don’t see a sense of community in many Catholic Churches. What I did see in my hall at least was a loving group of people who live, breath, and preach Bible principles.
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zaffiroborant
Guest
Sure it was.Also another reason why it changed was because the wine that was being purchased for the sacrament was being poisened,
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
You have some excellent points, and there are a lot of Catholics who have no understanding of their faith or the Bible, and a lot of cafeteria Catholics who think that they can decide what is right or wrong for themselves. I’m sure you don’t find many cafeteria JWs or cafeteria Mormons. However, for me, the Catholic Church is the ultimate authority on Christianity so whatever the failings of its members, it’s the right church for me.My aunt, who was very interested in her Catholic religion, just never got any good answers from her Church or Pastor. She was very interested in the Bible, but the Bible wasn’t really taught in the Catholic Church. So, back in the early 1970s, she and her two sons along with a daughter became JW’s. She is still one of JW’s after all these years. And the two sons and one daughter who became JW’s are all solid in their faith and happily married. The one son (a Catholic) has divorced his wife and is living with a woman.
I saw how happy she was and around 1990, I, too, started studying with the Witnesses. Their Bible Study is next to none. They have a real sense of community. Their religion is based on the first three hundred years of Christianity.
About 1995, I started to come back to the Catholic Church. I can tell you that without that basic knowledge of the Bible given me by JW’s, I would never understand the Catholic Church. I started reading Scott Hahn and started to discover apologetics. I believe I’m a better Catholic for having been a Jehovah’s Witness and I believe those with real solid Bible knowledge understand the Catholic Church better, especially after having studied the traditions, early church fathers, etc.
Sadly, the Church has failed to teach the faith. I’ve been to several Bible Studies given by the Catholic Church and not one of them has satisfied me. I’ve taught RCIA and was shocked to find that one of the woman teaching RCIA didn’t know that Jesus was a Jew!
While we on these boards may be a bit more educated when it comes to why the Catholic Church teaches what it does, I believe we should be thinking more along the lines of exactly what is the Church teaching? Do we ever hear in homilies that it’s wrong to live with each other before marriage? Do we ever question two older people living together because of financial situations or do we just ‘wink wink’…it’s okay, God will forgive? I think it’s wrong to attack Jehovah’s Witnesses and/or Mormons based on what they do, i.e., knock door to door. Isn’t that what Jesus taught his disciples? Perhaps as Catholics we should be more like Jehovah’s Witnesses. Quite frankly, I don’t see a sense of community in many Catholic Churches. What I did see in my hall at least was a loving group of people who live, breath, and preach Bible principles.
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lmpower
Guest
One reason to become a Jehovah’s Witness is their pacifism. They refuse to serve in the military. A reason to be Mormon is clean living. I believe they have a long life expectancy.
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
Mormons seem to take a lot of pharmaceuticals though. And they drink an awful lot of soda.One reason to become a Jehovah’s Witness is their pacifism. They refuse to serve in the military. A reason to be Mormon is clean living. I believe they have a long life expectancy.
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zaffiroborant
Guest
Neither of those life choices require membership in either church, or any church at all for that matter.One reason to become a Jehovah’s Witness is their pacifism. They refuse to serve in the military. A reason to be Mormon is clean living. I believe they have a long life expectancy.
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litldog2
Guest
As an aside, why would anyone want to be part of the Muslim Religion, given their propensity for terrorism? If one is going to ‘bash’ Mormans and JW’s’ why not ask the question, Why would anyone want to be Muslim? Why would anyone join today given the terrorist acts that have occurred across various countries in the name of Allah? Think about that…
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litldog2
Guest
Absolutely. After leaving the Witnesses, I studied various religions. Catholicsm is wonderful if a person understand it.You have some excellent points, and there are a lot of Catholics who have no understanding of their faith or the Bible, and a lot of cafeteria Catholics who think that they can decide what is right or wrong for themselves. I’m sure you don’t find many cafeteria JWs or cafeteria Mormons. However, for me, the Catholic Church is the ultimate authority on Christianity so whatever the failings of its members, it’s the right church for me.
I have a neighbor who goes around telling people that as a social worker, she ‘saw’ what having a baby if you were poor, uneducated, whatever did to people so she believes in abortion. That, to me, is scandal. She is also twice married to a man who is thee times married. Another scandal. They both receive communion. Yet, try to explain to her the teachings of the Catholic Church, the teachings of why artificial birth control is not allowed, the reason why babies are not aborted, etc., etc. It’s like talking to a rock. Show her the CCC and her eyes roll. YET, she is considered by her ‘friends’ to be a good, solid Catholic because she attends Mass each Sunday with her husband.
So, the question was asked, Why would anyone want to be a Mormon or JW…why not? Especially if the Catholic Church never taught a person the basics of Catholicsm. I don’t remember apologetics in the Catholic Church. It seems quite ‘new’ to me (I realize it’s been around for awhile, but seriously, how many ‘Catholics’ know their faith?
How many priests actually give a good, solid homily, touching upon the teachings of both the Bible and the Catholic Church?
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twopekinguys
Guest
Who do we think of when we mention “Bread and Water”?Speaking of Methodists, what do Mormons have against grape juice? Methodists offer little cubes of bread and grape juice for their communion, but Mormons only offer bread and water.
Prisoners
Coincidence? I’m not sure, considering that Smith had a bar/tavern in his home.
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kimg901
Guest
mathonihah I started a new thread named “Restorationist Churches”
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Nabooru
Guest
I’m an archaeologist (well, almost - just a few years left). I can understand a particularly gullible Victorian farmer falling for Mormonism, but these days, we have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that everything Joseph Smith claimed happened in the Americas is absolutely untrue. To me Mormonism is 19th-century scientology - making huge claims of life improvement while keeping the weirder doctrines secret from newly interested converts; demanding money in exchange for salvation as a tenet of faith; mythology involving far-off planets and numerous quarreling deities; secret rites and ceremonies and chambers barred from the insufficiently initiated and those who have not donated enough; a morally-questionable founder held up as the pinnacle of sincerity and brilliance; a corporate structure that owns profit-making properties; insistence on control and complete involvement - etc. I was watching a documentary on scientology lately that detailed how the religion has a project task force for rehabilitating erring members by forcing them to perform menial work around the building and defer to other members. It made me think of a former Mormon who complained about how he had to “donate his time for the Lord” by cleaning the bathrooms at his church.
Besides archaeology, the biggest thing that boggles me about Mormonism is that any woman could voluntarily join it. Marriage is a sacred duty so you can perpetually produce babies for your god-husband in the afterlife - you’ll be a goddess to, of course, but he actually gets worshipped, you don’t. Your entire existence, in this life and the next, is wrapped up in submitting to his patriarchal authority and bearing his children. What if you die before you get married? No problem - we’ll assign you a husband to serve in heaven. To me the whole feminine concept in Mormonism is frankly humiliating.
Besides archaeology, the biggest thing that boggles me about Mormonism is that any woman could voluntarily join it. Marriage is a sacred duty so you can perpetually produce babies for your god-husband in the afterlife - you’ll be a goddess to, of course, but he actually gets worshipped, you don’t. Your entire existence, in this life and the next, is wrapped up in submitting to his patriarchal authority and bearing his children. What if you die before you get married? No problem - we’ll assign you a husband to serve in heaven. To me the whole feminine concept in Mormonism is frankly humiliating.
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mackbrislawn
Guest
I can see how individuals can apostasize, but the whole of God’s church? Why should the newly restored churches be any more immune from apostasy than the original? Since a restored church is established by God like the original, if it fails, then it means God has failed, since the function of God’s church is to teach the God’s gospel.No, you have failed, Christ hasn’t failed. Apostasy is a failure of man, not if God.
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mackbrislawn
Guest
The symbolic or representational nature of the bread and beverage has always puzzled me. I mean, why should one need bread and wine, or grape juice, or water to focus on Jesus? Seems odd to me.haha basically its saying this
- Use whatever type of bread and beverage you want
- Just remember that the bread represents Christ’s body and the beverage represents Christ Blood
- Stop buying Wine from strangers( they were poisoning the wine to try and get rid of the LDS people).
- Don’t focus on if its pita, tortilla’s, or wonderbread. Wine, water, 7up or (insert favorite drink here). Just focus on what it represents.
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SteveVH
Guest
Exactly. if you’re just going to basically sit around and remember Jesus you might as well go with nachos and a cold Corona. Bread and wine really don’t make any sense outside of the sacrament.The symbolic or representational nature of the bread and beverage has always puzzled me. I mean, why should one need bread and wine, or grape juice, or water to focus on Jesus? Seems odd to me.
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kimg901
Guest
Nachos and a Corona? Light or regular?Exactly. if you’re just going to basically sit around and remember Jesus you might as well go with nachos and a cold Corona. Bread and wine really don’t makes any sense outside of the sacrament.
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