Why would anyone want to be a Mormon or Jehovah Witnesses?

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That is a big article. Don’t have time to read it right now.
Here is a shorter one:

NUMBER OF FAITHFUL MORMONS RAPIDLY DECLINING

Updated: 1/31/2012 6:25 pm | Published: 1/31/2012 12:18 pm
Reported by: Brian Carlson

Reuters LDS Church article
SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is losing a record number of its membership. A new report quotes an LDS general authority who said more members are falling away today than any time in the past 175 years.

At meetings like General Conference, Utahns may be used to seeing members of the LDS Church show up in record numbers. But according to a recent Reuters article citing LDS General Authority Marlin K. Jensen, for the church as a whole, the record in going in a different direction.

Elder Jensen told the news outlet times have changed, and “attrition has accelerated in the last five or 10 years.” Some church members ABC 4 talked to said they see the faithful leaving.

“I’m from Chile and a lot of people just stop attending, they take it a little bit too casual,” said Francisco Jerez, LDS Church member.

So how bad is it getting? Right now there are more than 14 million members of the church worldwide. But according to the article, sociologists estimate active membership may as few as only five million.

Elder Jensen told Reuters that’s the biggest departure since before the days of Brigham Young.

“If people are leaving it’s really a mark that maybe we need to get deeper into our faith,” said Ross Booth, LDS Church member.

“When life is going good and we don’t have as many challenges we don’t turn to God,” said Babbi Hill, LDS Church member.

These members said it doesn’t worry them about the church.

“I know the church is going to continue to grow and develop,” said Booth.

But it is a wake up call to be their brother’s keeper.

“It does come down to us as members of the church to do our part,” said Jerez.

And LDS leaders are hoping they bring their friends back.

The LDS church declined to comment on the article. But Elder Jensen told Reuters, the church is attempting to reach out to the less-active church members, update its manuals on sensitive church doctrines, and improve the amount of accurate information about the church on the internet.

But if you’d like to read the article in full, click on the link embedded in this story.
 
The word creed has many meanings. For example, you can talk of someone’s “political creed,” by which is meant simply whatever political ideology he believes in. It need not even be a written statement of belief.
But it’s not talking about politics is it, no it is talking about churches creeds, you claim those are Protestant churches. Please provide support for this claim that JS was referring to Protestant church creeds and examples of Protestant creeds. If you can’t provide these then, well you are just making stuff up.
 
Is each Witness allowed to read the magic 8 ball or were you told what it meant by the leadership?
Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught to treat the Bible as an “answer book,” and each of their meetings are study group sessions designed to teach them to memorize the proof texts for their current beliefs. So they are quite familiar with the Bible, albeit in the form of their New World Translation which is their take on the LDS belief regarding the Bible, “the word of God…translated correctly.”

While the reference to the “Magic 8 Ball” was meant to demonstrate how they treat the Bible (an inspired “guidebook” of sorts, treated similar to the way Marcion of Sinope and the Gnostics viewed holy writ), the official “answers in the Bible” come from their leadership and only their leadership.

Witnesses are not allowed to have a personal view or take on the official theology that comes from their Governing Body, neither are they allowed to have any say nor play any part in its development. There are no theologians or scholars of any type allowed outside this group (or in the Governing Body as university education is preached against by them). A sensus fidelium and sensus fidei fidelis are not allowed to exist, are actively stamped out, and considered Devil-inspired under the label “independent thinking.”
 
I have never, ever in my 35 active years as a mormon, ever been taught “I get to be a God on my own planet” Not in any Sunday school lesson, or priesthood quorum, or temple session. Not in any bishopric meeting, or fireside, or hallway discussion. I’ve never seen it in any church literature. I’ve only heard it from critics, and maybe a mormon or two speculating about what the eternities must be like, since the Bible tells us Christ inherited everything the Father hath, and we can be joint heirs with Christ.

We are taught about exhaltation. I know you guys don’t believe it. I know y’all think it’s false doctrine, and feel the need now to counter the notion, and that’s fine. I’m just sticking it out there because it’s what we are actually taught - and not the goofy sensationalistic “eternal sex with a million wives on your own planet” nonsense people keep telling me I am taught.

LDS Gospel Principles manual chapter 47: Exhaltation
“As man now is, God once was; as God is now man may be.”
( The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, ed. Clyde J. Williams [1984],

Having been forced to go to LDS church after a parent remarried, and having seminary forced on me, I am having a very hard time believing you. You are taking a comment and making a ridiculous reply. Of course, LDS believe they will reach the celestial kingdom if they “earn” it, and their reward will to become gods and goddesses. So don’t try to deny it. It only makes you look like a liar too.
 
this is not to ignore the multitude of unsupportable nonsense promulgated by the mormons.
5 Then the devil led him up and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6 And the devil said to him, “To you I will give their glory and all this authority; for it has been given over to me, and I give it to anyone I please. 7 If you, then, will worship me, it will all be yours.” 8 Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve only him.’” (cf. Deut 6:13) The Bible

“As man now is, God once was; as God is now man may be.”
( The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, ed. Clyde J. Williams [1984], 1.) Lorenzo Snow, 5th President of the Mormon Church.

This says it all, IMO.
 
One reason to become a Jehovah’s Witness is their pacifism. They refuse to serve in the military. A reason to be Mormon is clean living. I believe they have a long life expectancy.
The high rates of depression in Utah will attest to their general happiness.😃

Utah has the highest rate of it’s citizens taking anti-depressants in the country.
 
I agree Jesus is the reason for our hope. But it is the Holy Ghost that bears witness to us of the Father and the Son. It is by means of that witness that I know that Jesus is the Son of God; and by the same witness I know that the Book of Mormon is the word of God.
What is the reason you believe?

Seriously, I ask again because you aren’t giving a reason. Jesus provides many reasons, what we call evidence, that He is the Son of God. Being the one who created us with the ability to reason, what He does supports what He says. Most notably, raising Himself from the dead! There are many more miracles, and explanations given by Jesus and the Apostles that testify to His fulfilling the prophecies of the OT regarding the Messiah and Salvation.

So, we can reason, what Jesus says and does is trustworthy. The Spirit confirms us in our belief. What I am asking, what evidence do you have that the claims of Joseph Smith are trustworthy?

Or, in other words, faith and reason are not at odds when they both come from God.
 
I have to leave my computer right now, and continue at some other time.
Being raised mormon I cannot belive have the stuff you put on here. You are clearly brained washed. The fiction book of mormon was man made, beliving that you will beceome a god is way jacked up also I thank God everyday that I woke up and say the light and found the only one true church CATHOLIC peace out
 
Wrong! And here is where Mormons truly lack any understanding of the Jewish faith. I’ve got news for you. The Seder meal consisted of CONSUMING an actual tangent lamb who been sacrificed and accompanied by other tangible foods.

Or…

Did they eat symbols (cookie cut-outs) only representing those tangible items?
👍
 
I am sure it would be offensive to the named clergy etc., but not necessarily to the rank and file membership of the churches. Mormon revelation pronounces dire consequences on those who in the last days “build up churches unto themselves to get gain …” (Mormon 8:33; D&C 10:56). Those were the ones who were being condemned in the First Vision. I am sure they would take offence (unless they were honest enough to acknowledge the truth and repent). But the remarks were not aimed at just anyone who is Christian.
Brigham Young, in Journal of Discourses 6:176: “Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth.”

Is what you say the Mormon stance, or what Brigham Young says? :hmmm:
 
even more…

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the “whore of Babylon” whom the Lord denounces… as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act. If any penitent believer desires to obtain forgiveness of sins through baptism, let him beware of having any thing to do with the churches of apostate Christendom, lest he perish in the awful plagues and judgments, denounced against them. The only persons among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people who have authority from Jesus Christ to administer any gospel ordinance are those called and authorized among the Latter-day Saints. Before the restoration of the church of Christ to the earth in the year 1830, there have been no people on the earth for many generations possessing authority from God to minister gospelordinances. We again repeat. Beware of the hypocritical false teachers and imposters of Babylon! - Apostle Orson Pratt The Seer, Vol.2, No.4, p.255

"The present Christian world exists and continues by division. The MYSTERY of Babylon the great, is mother of harlots and abominations of the earth, and it needs no prophetic vision, to unravel such mysteries. The old church is the mother, and the protestants are the lewd daughters. Alas! alas! what doctrine, what principle, or what scheme, in all, what prayers, what devotion, or what faith, since the fathers have fallen asleep,' has opened the heavens; has brought men into the presence of God; and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to an innumerable company of angels? The answer is, not any: There is none in all christendom that doeth good; no, not one.’ - Apostle John Taylor, Times and Seasons, Vol.6, No.1, p.811

“Babylon, literally understood, is the gay world; spiritual wickedness, the golden city, and the glory of the world, The priests of Egypt, who received a portion gratis from Pharaoh; the priests of Baal, and the Pharisees, and Sadducees, with their “long robes,” among the Jews, are equally included in their mother’s family, with the Roman Catholics, Protestants, and all that have not had the keys of the kingdom and power thereof, according to the ordinances of God.” - Prophet John Taylor, Times and Seasons, Vol.6, No.1, p.939

“A great portion of the oriental country has been preserved from the grossest idolatry, wickedness, confusion, bloodshed, murders, cruelty, and errors in religion that have overspread the rest of the world, under the name of Christianity, or mystery of iniquity. An open defiance of God is no mystery; open drunkenness, and revelling debauchery, and all manner of wickedness and immorality professed by sinners who profess to be nothing else, are no mystery; they do not deceive anybody; but when all manner of wickedness, idolatry, drunkenness, and corruption is cloaked under a sacred name, under an outward sanctity and holiness, and under as high and dignified an appellation as Christian, it is a mystery of iniquity; and that has overspread a great portion of the world, and has borne rule until the present day, sometimes under the name of Roman universality, sometimes under the name of the Greek Church, and at other times under various classes and names.”

“Many that were honest have been deceived by this mystery of iniquity, who have esteemed things to be sacred, which were abominably corrupt; and corrupt superstitions have been revered because of the great names and sanctified professions that were attached to them. If such institutions actually professed wickedness, they would go for what they were worth; but when a thing professes to be holy, and takes the name of Christ as its founder, and the holy Prophets and Apostles, to carry out all manner of oppression, all manner of idolatry and idol worship, all manner of priestcraft and kingcraft, and more or less instigating division among nations and governments, all to carry out bloodshed, cruelty, the rack, the inquisition, and holding of men in bondage, ruling them with a red of iron, it is a mystery of iniquity calculated to deceive millions.”

“But returning to the general corruption that has prevailed nationally, politically, and religiously, under the name of Christianity, leaving out Christ and his Apostles, I do think there has been no idolatry in the world, under any form or system, that could surpass it. It is the mystery of iniquity, the great whore of all the earth. It has brought the whole earth under a lasting curse, having departed from the laws of God, changed the ordinances, and broken the everlasting covenant, in consequence of which the earth is destined to be burned, and few men left.” - Apostle Parley P. Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p.41

“How long has this order of things existed, this dreadful apostacy, this class of people that pronounced themselves Zion, or Christians, without any of the characteristics of Zion? It has existed for some sixteen or seventeen centuries. It has spread itself and grown and gone into the four quarters of the earth. It is the great ecclesiastical power that is spoken of by the revelator John, and called by him the most corrupt and most wicked of all the powers of the earth, under the name of spiritual Babylon, or in other words Babel, which signifies confusion. This great and corrupt power is also represented by John as presenting a golden cup to the nations, full of all manner of filthiness and abominations.”
 
“She is termed, in other places, by the same prophet, “The whore of all the earth,” making the nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Some three centuries ago there came out sortie excellent men, named Martin Lather, John Calvin and many others that might be mentioned, who protested against the wickedness and abominations of the Church wherein they had been educated, and of which they had been members. Because of their protestations against the mother Church they were called Protestants. They pronounced her the whore of all the earth; they declared that she had no authority, that she had none of the blessings and gifts which characterized the ancient Christians. They came out and established other Churches… But among all these Churches where are the characteristics of Zion? We hunt for them in vain.” - Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses Vol. 14, p.346

“Thrones shall be cast down, and the Ancient of Days shall sit, and the body of the fourth beast (or Babylon) shall be given to the devouring flame, and then shall the remnant of the heathen know that the Lord is God, for they shall see and hear of his judgments, which he shall execute upon the corrupt powers of the earth under the name of modern Christianity, scripturally called “Babylon the Great”–“The whore of all the earth,” with whom the nations for centuries have committed fornication, and have drank out of her filthy cup. O Babylon! thou hast decked thyself with costly ornaments! Thou has clothed thyself with the most gaudy apparel! Thy seminaries of learning, and thy theological institutions have been multiplied far and wide. Thy priests are polished with all the refinements of a profound and extensive education. Thy costly and magnificent churches have been erected in great numbers throughout all thy borders. The merchants of the earth have made themselves rich through the abundance of thy luxuries.The learned–the great–the mighty–the kings of the earth, have glorified themselves in thy grand and superb palaces. Thou hast indeed enrobed thyself in the royal splendors of a queen. Thine external appearance has excited the admiration of all nations. But internally thou art rotten with the filth of thy whoredoms.” - Apostle Orson Pratt, The Essential Orson Pratt, p.109

“The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church is the great corrupt ecclesiastic power, represented by great Babylon which has made all nations drunk with her wickedness, and she must fall, after she has been warned with the sound of the everlasting gospel. Her overthrow will be by a series of the most terrible judgments which will quickly succeed each other, and sweep over the nations where she has her dominion, and at last she will be utterly burned by fire, for thus hath the Lord spoken. Great, and fearful, and most terrible judgments are decreed upon these corrupt powers, the nations of modern Christendom; for strong is the Lord God who shall execute His fierce wrath upon them, and He will not cease until He has made a full end, and until their names be blotted out from under heaven.” - Apostle Orson Pratt, Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon, p.84 - p.85
 
The standard LDS reply since c.1980 is that these quotes reflect the opinion of LDS church members at the time, and are not doctrinal. Which amuses me to no end, while at the same time saddens me. Which opinion is correct, the one taught ‘back then’, or the one being taught now?

In general, the answer the modern LDS give is that the opinion they agree with is the one that is doctrine. As personal opinion changes, so does LDS “doctrine”. 😛
 
I’m a Catholic today (born into a Catholic family), but I became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses for a short time in the 1980s.

I became one of Jehovah’s Witnesses because I was quite attracted to what they offered, their “reasons” for joining them… things as a then-18-year-old didn’t know were not reasons enough for joining or staying with a religion.

They offered answers to everything. There had a simple formula too: For them the Bible is God’s complete and final revelation, and one could use it like a Magic 8 Ball and get any answer to any puzzle. To them it is God’s final word on everything.

Joining them gave you the key to unlock all the answers you wanted and gain everlasting life (which includes never having to experience death because they believe the world can and will end any moment now.) Peace of mind and security now were possible ***if ***you joined the only ‘God-sanctioned, God-approved’ organization for receiving answers, namely their religion.

It was the 1980s, I was a teenager and I was afraid the world was going to be destroyed in a nuclear holocaust between the USA and the no-longer existing Soviet Union (remember those days?). The Witnesses taught that if Armageddon included this nuclear exchange, Witnesses would be unharmed. I found comfort in that thought.

They taught (back in the 1980s) that this world was to end before the 20th century came to an end (yep, we shouldn’t be in the year 2000 according to their teachings). Afraid of the alternative, however, I found relief in the promises of this group.

Oh, one last thing, and it’s the most important: the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses (the leaders of that religion).

You see back then I had the need to compartmentalize everything into “black and white,” right-or-wrong categories (i.e., either I was in the right religion or the wrong one, either there was an answer to a particular question or there were no answers to anything, etc.). It seemed that everyone else who belonged to the religion or who joined was similar. We all had little tolerance for anything ambiguous or the mysterious, saw things and people in terms of “with God” or “with Satan,” and believed all answers about God had to be capable of fitting into the scope of human reason or out they went (there goes the concept of the Trinity).

And we liked that there was this group, the leaders of the Watchtower, who kept patting our backs and telling us it was okay to be this way.

In order to get this approval and constant praise from their Governing Body (who we believed made up a composite “prophet,” the only-channel of truth being used by God—and who wouldn’t want approval from God’s only prophet?) we had to stay in the confines of the religion. Nobody on the outside approved of us judging things as either righteous or wicked (there is no in-between for person, place, or thing).

The doctrines did not matter, not many of them anyway. They could and would change regularly. We even looked forward to tossing away beliefs of yesterday for new ones because we saw this as “proof” that God was leading us (where would the Governing Body get new answers from otherwise if it weren’t from God? thought a “black-and-white-only” mind). As long as they kept telling us that the end of the world was right around the corner and that we were wise for choosing the only true religion, all the other details were unimportant.

I can’t speak for others, but that’s why I joined. I liked being told I was “more right” than the rest of the world by choosing the “one true religion” of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I liked all the “answers” they gave me to parrot off (we were taught to memorize ways to answer anybody by going to our Kingdom Halls five times a week for school meetings that would often last two hours or more). I liked feeling like I was going to be saved for “knowing the Truth.”

Of course this didn’t last long. I was a teenager when I joined. After a few years it got old, and by my mid-20s I realized this selfish approach couldn’t possibly be right.

I also came to realize that God’s final word and complete revelation was not merely the Bible but a Person, Jesus Christ. No book alone and in itself could give me all the answers, and it wasn’t answers that were going to save me.

Only a God could do that.
This is interesting. I can see how a teenager, or someone who was searching for answers without having a solid religious foundation could be attracted to it - it seems so straightforward and full of answers. The Watchtower magazines are like that too, very colorful, full of interesting articles on science and religion.

How were you able to extracate yourself from them? It sounds like they get a pretty strong hold on people, once you are in their church.
 
The standard LDS reply since c.1980 is that these quotes reflect the opinion of LDS church members at the time, and are not doctrinal. Which amuses me to no end, while at the same time saddens me. Which opinion is correct, the one taught ‘back then’, or the one being taught now?

In general, the answer the modern LDS give is that the opinion they agree with is the one that is doctrine. As personal opinion changes, so does LDS “doctrine”. 😛
Which basically means: They are man-made religion founded in the 19th century.
 
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