(deep chuckle)I’ve been here long enough to have seen some better Mormon apologeticists than the recent ones. I’m not against you giving them good arguements against their religion, but it seem like you are cherry picking certain issues, and not letting them develop an arguement. I mean, I love hearing Mormon apologetics, and it just ain’t happenin’ anymore!!
as someone who argues (in court) for a living, if there is a good argument to develop, it will be developed no matter what anyone else does. No one can stop me from developing one no matter what they do, as long as I have one to develop.I’ve been here long enough to have seen some better Mormon apologeticists than the recent ones. I’m not against you giving them good arguements against their religion, but it seem like you are cherry picking certain issues, and not letting them develop an arguement. I mean, I love hearing Mormon apologetics, and it just ain’t happenin’ anymore!!
It isn’t that we aren’t allowing them to mount an argument, it is that they are unable to mount one.I’ve been here long enough to have seen some better Mormon apologeticists than the recent ones. I’m not against you giving them good arguements against their religion, but it seem like you are cherry picking certain issues, and not letting them develop an arguement. I mean, I love hearing Mormon apologetics, and it just ain’t happenin’ anymore!!
Correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t believe that it is official Catholic doctrine, namely that God attributes the guilt of those who knowingly promote false doctrine to those who see it posted on Internet forums. God does not expect us to always correct others. (Note Matthew 15:14, especially the first part of the verse.) Of course I could be wrong, but then God would be holding Catholics accountable for every tract, billboard, and Protestant church board on the planet.
If facts were presented I would have to rethink my position. Now if it were just some guy giving me BS without actual facts and documents, I wouldnt pay it no mind. We here have presented facts from their (lds) own sources but they still dont seem to get it. We get its “a teaching, not doctrine”, “taken out of context”, " its anti-mormon", 'misinterpreted", “not translated correctly” and so on and so on.
This is just my opinion of course. But if you have the truth and I don’t. And you see me living in ignorance and untruth, are you really not going to try and show me the truth rather than leave me in darkness? You never know who is ready and who is not to receive the gospel of Jesus Christ. If you see false doctrine, no matter the situation, I believe you should stand as a witness of Christ and testify of truth. Maybe the person you are trying to correct won’t listen, but maybe an innocent bystander has. or even on these posts, you never know who is reading them.
Exactly
Yes, you are correct when speaking of a Mormon sacrament. You are completely incorrect when speaking of a Catholic sacrament. The outward symbol, if you will, is a sign of an inward spiritual reality. When we are washed in the waters of Baptism our souls are really cleansed. We are quenched with the living waters of the Holy Spirit and are infused with supernatural life. When we are immersed another reality is symbolized; we really die to sin and when we are brought up we are sharers in the resurrection. If there is no reality to the symbol then it is meaningless and therefore pointless. Who cares if one is Baptized if it has no effect on the soul?
I think you answered your own question “they were born into it and/or they had no choice”. Enuff said.
To be clear, while Mormons do not completely agree with the Catholic/Orthodox view on the sacraments, they also don’t hold to the symbolic-only view of Evangelical Christians. Mormons believe that the ordinances all “do” something. They aren’t just symbols. For example, baptism is for the remission of sins. It is believed to be the gateway to the straight and narrow path. Confirmation confers the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost. Etc. And as for “the Sacrament” (i.e. the Eucharist/Communion), yes, Mormons reject the Real Presence. However, they don’t just believe that it’s a symbolic remembrance of Christ’s sacrifice. Yes, that’s part of it, but not all. They also believe that the bread and water are “blessed and sanctified” by their priesthood, and that by partaking, they renew their baptismal covenants, become clean through a remission of sins, and the Spirit to be with them. They take it very seriously (Mormons are asked to examine their lives prior to receiving the Sacrament, and to refrain from partaking if they find themselves unworthy), and view it as a very important ordinance in their weekly spiritual life and spiritual development that puts them more in “tune”, if you will, with God. It really isn’t just “pretend” for them.
Nice observation! Yes L-Dub7 (I just gave you your ghetto name
), are you still searching? Whatever your decision, may God help you in your journey.
I appreciate your position but keep in mind the words to which I was responding:
It doesn’t sound to me like you are saying the same thing as mathonihah.
Right, hence why I ended my last post with “** It is merely to comment on how Mormons view their own ordinances and the Sacrament, and that it isn’t just mere symbolism for them (even if mathonihah’s statements could be read to imply such).”**
One of the difficulties in discussions with Mormons is that there seems to be a plethora of opinions when it comes to official Mormon positions. I can only respond to what has been said and would have responded differently to your position. But thanks for the explanation.
Thank you for your thoughts Miriam and k-dawg. To make it short (so as not to go too off topic), no, I haven’t made a decision yet. I haven’t been to LDS church services in quite some time (around what, 2-3 months?), though I do hang out with some LDS friends from time to time. I do continue to pray (though not as frequently as I should) for guidance to the truth, wherever it may be (just trying to be open and not have blinders up or narrow focus).Nice observation! Yes L-Dub7 (I just gave you your ghetto name
No problemOne of the difficulties in discussions with Mormons is that there seems to be a plethora of opinions when it comes to official Mormon positions. I can only respond to what has been said and would have responded differently to your position. But thanks for the explanation.
. While I do tend to agree with you on that, especially when talking about certain specific topics (such as the fundamental one of the nature of God), I do think it’s clear that LDS believe that the priesthood “does” something, and that their ordinances are not merely symbols that don’t “do” anything (as we read on their own official sites). I say that as a former priesthood leader (Elders Quorum President).
