Why would anyone want to be a Mormon or Jehovah Witnesses?

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RebeccaJ said:
Yes, I read a post on another forum where a Mormon guy was bragging about using Sprite and Ritz crackers. I really just don’t get it. Sprite and Ritz crackers helps a person think of Jesus? But crosses are bad?

Every now and then Mormonism gives me the impression of children playing school.
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When I was 11, my ward used apple juice and ritz crackers. I thought it was the best sacrament ever!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicea325
Yes…symbols to all those man-made sects,but NOT to Jesus the Son of God. Show me where Jesus says there are mere symbols? NO WHERE!
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BTW: You never answered me:
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At the Jewish Seder Meal did they eat actual tanglible foods (Lamb,wine, bitter herbs) or were they mere cookie cut-outs symbolizing those actual tanglible foods?
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Do not be afraid…it is okay to admit you are wrong.
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TexanKnight said:
u huh
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No answer to my question in regards to the Jewish Seder Meal? :whistle::whistle:
 
RebeccaJ said:
A flag does not make a person an American, any more than a plain piece of bread makes a person holy. A flag is not needed to be an American and a piece of plain piece of bread is not needed to bless a person.

I have no idea why LDS bother with bread and water at all.
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I’ll anwser that Chinese riddle:

Because imitations are the sincerest form of flattery…👍

Copying someone (In this case Catholics/Orthodoxs) is flattering because it shows Mormons want to be like those ancient liturgical churches, but not even CLOSE!
 
CyndiTo411 said:
"So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.“He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.“For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.“He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.“As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me.“This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.” John 6:53-58

Nowhere does Jesus say whoever eats of this symbol of my flesh. Jesus provided the one true definition of “real presence” when he said “for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink.” To the human eye it is merely bread and wine but after consecration the bread becomes the true body of Christ and the wine the true blood. We have Jesus in the flesh every time we receive Holy communion!!! You must have very little faith if you cannot believe that the Lord doesn’t have enough power to give us his soul and divinity through the sacrament. Nothing worse than a blind man who doesn’t want to see.🤷
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“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” (John 6:63)
 
Nicea325 said:
Yes…symbols to all those man-made sects,but NOT to Jesus the Son of God. Show me where Jesus says there are mere symbols? NO WHERE!
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See my previous post.
BTW: You never answered me:
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At the Jewish Seder Meal did they eat actual tanglible foods (Lamb,wine, bitter herbs) or were they mere cookie cut-outs symbolizing those actual tanglible foods?
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Do not be afraid…it is okay to admit you are wrong.
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Those foods were also symbolic of the spiritual feeding made possible by, or in anticipation of, the Atonement. They were still eating and drinking symbols, just as we are eating and drinking symbols when we eat and drink the bread and wine.
 
RebeccaJ said:
It isn’t news to anyone here that Mormonism has some Protestant traits. But I think you should be cautious in your comparisons, as Mormonism redefines Christian terms to non-Christian meaning. Using the term “Real Presence”, and redefining it to mean a symbolic presence, may fly in your gospel doctrine class, it won’t here.
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You got that backwards. I had said that the reason why I am uncomfortable with some LDS interpretations of “bless and sanctify …” in the LDS sacramental prayers is because it moves away from the symbolism and approaches some Christian concepts of Real Presence, not that the symbolism gets close to concept of Real Presence. I am rejecting Real Presence in favor of symbolism, not equating symbolism with Real Presence.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Yes, but a feeling isn’t sanctification.
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The sanctification comes through a spiritual feeding, when we receive more abundantly of his Spirit as we partake of the Sacrament worthily and in faith, and with the right intent. As Jesus said, “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: …” (John 6:63)
 
mathonihah said:
The sanctification comes through a spiritual feeding, when we receive more abundantly of his Spirit as we partake of the Sacrament worthily and in faith, and with the right intent. As Jesus said, “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: …” (John 6:63)
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You misunderstand Jesus’ quote. Obviously the flesh and blood of the Son of God profitith something, like our eternal salvation. He gave his body for the salvation of the world. And it is real food and real drink.
 
mathonihah said:
The sanctification comes through a spiritual feeding, when we receive more abundantly of his Spirit as we partake of the Sacrament worthily and in faith, and with the right intent. As Jesus said, “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: …” (John 6:63)
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Holy context, batman! That is one of the most outrageous examples of cherry picking bible verses I’ve ever seen.
Catholic Answers:
Their Main Argument

For Fundamentalist writers, the scriptural argument is capped by an appeal to John 6:63: “It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.” They say this means that eating real flesh is a waste. But does this make sense?

Are we to understand that Christ had just commanded his disciples to eat his flesh, then said their doing so would be pointless? Is that what “the flesh is of no avail” means? “Eat my flesh, but you’ll find it’s a waste of time”—is that what he was saying? Hardly.

The fact is that Christ’s flesh avails much! If it were of no avail, then the Son of God incarnated for no reason, he died for no reason, and he rose from the dead for no reason. Christ’s flesh profits us more than anyone else’s in the world. If it profits us nothing, so that the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ are of no avail, then “your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished” (1 Cor. 15:17b–18).

In John 6:63 “flesh profits nothing” refers to mankind’s inclination to think using only what their natural human reason would tell them rather than what God would tell them. Thus in John 8:15–16 Jesus tells his opponents: “You judge according to the flesh, I judge no one. Yet even if I do judge, my judgment is true, for it is not I alone that judge, but I and he who sent me.” So natural human judgment, unaided by God’s grace, is unreliable; but God’s judgment is always true.

And were the disciples to understand the line “The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life” as nothing but a circumlocution (and a very clumsy one at that) for “symbolic”? No one can come up with such interpretations unless he first holds to the Fundamentalist position and thinks it necessary to find a rationale, no matter how forced, for evading the Catholic interpretation. In John 6:63 “flesh” does not refer to Christ’s own flesh—the context makes this clear—but to mankind’s inclination to think on a natural, human level. “The words I have spoken to you are spirit” does not mean “What I have just said is symbolic.” The word “spirit” is never used that way in the Bible. The line means that what Christ has said will be understood only through faith; only by the power of the Spirit and the drawing of the Father (cf. John 6:37, 44–45, 65).
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catholic.com/tracts/christ-in-the-eucharist
 
Nicea325 said:
I’ll anwser that Chinese riddle:

Because imitations are the sincerest form of flattery…👍

Copying someone (In this case Catholics/Orthodoxs) is flattering because it shows Mormons want to be like those ancient liturgical churches, but not even CLOSE!
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Perhaps a reading of the Mormon sacramental prayers will help put your mind at rest concerning that. The following are from chapters 4 and 5 of Moroni on the Book of Mormon:

Chapter 4

1 The manner of their elders and priests administering the flesh and blood of Christ unto the church; and they administered it according to the commandments of Christ; wherefore we know the manner to be true; and the elder or priest did minister it—

2 And they did kneel down with the church, and pray to the Father in the name of Christ, saying:

3 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it; that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him, and keep his commandments which he hath given them, that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

Chapter 5

1 The amanner of administering the wine—Behold, they took the cup, and said:

2 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee, in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.
 
SteveVH said:
You misunderstand Jesus’ quote. Obviously the flesh and blood of the Son of God profitith something, like our eternal salvation. He gave his body for the salvation of the world. And it is real food and real drink.
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Why are you contradicting Jesus? He is saying it “profiteth nothing,” and you are saying that it “profiteth something”. Why should I believe you instead of him?
 
mathonihah said:
The sanctification comes through a spiritual feeding, when we receive more abundantly of his Spirit as we partake of the Sacrament worthily and in faith, and with the right intent. As Jesus said, “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: …” (John 6:63)
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When you receive a plain piece of bread you are spiritually fed? Okee dokee for you.
 
mathonihah said:
“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” (John 6:63)
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:banghead:
He had just proclaimed himself as the bread that came down from heaven but unlike the manna which kept the people alive physically and had no effect on the soul this new bread from heaven Jesus in the sacrament which IS FOOD AND DRINK has come to nourish the soul and not the body. And the words he spoke were to eat of His flesh and drink of His blood which is true food and true drink not to nourish our bodies but to nourish our souls and thus have ETERNAL LIFE WITH HIM IN HEAVEN. The eucharist contains the soul and divinty of Christ. You think He didn’t notice that people were shocked? On the contrary he saw but he didn’t rebuke them he meant what he said and he said what he meant. He knew there we’re people who wouldn’t believe, those people of little faith who could not believe the body and blood of Christ could literally become food or drink.
 
RebeccaJ said:
When you receive a plain piece of bread you are spiritually fed? Okee dokee for you.
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We are spiritually fed by his Spirit, as we partake of the Sacrament worthily and in faith, and with right intent (i.e. remembering his body which was torn for us, and his blood which was shed for our sins.
 
CyndiTo411 said:
:banghead:
He had just proclaimed himself as the bread that came down from heaven but unlike the manna which kept the people alive physically and had no effect on the soul this new bread from heaven Jesus in the sacrament which IS FOOD AND DRINK has come to nourish the soul and not the body. And the words he spoke were to eat of His flesh and drink of His blood which is true food and true drink not to nourish our bodies but to nourish our souls and thus have ETERNAL LIFE WITH HIM IN HEAVEN. The eucharist contains the soul and divinty of Christ. You think He didn’t notice that people were shocked? On the contrary he saw but he didn’t rebuke them he meant what he said and he said what he meant. He knew there we’re people who wouldn’t believe, those people of little faith who could not believe the body and blood of Christ could literally become food or drink.
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So your way of reading that passage is simply to turn a blind eye to John 6:63, and pretend that it doesn’t exist. I got it.
 
mathonihah said:
We are spiritually fed by his Spirit, as we partake of the Sacrament worthily and in faith, and with right intent (i.e. remembering his body which was torn for us, and his blood which was shed for our sins.
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A I said, I don’t know why you bother with bread and water, or crackers and apple juice. Seem to be superfluous props.
 
mathonihah said:
So your way of reading that passage is simply to turn a blind eye to John 6:63, and pretend that it doesn’t exist. I got it.
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Verse 63 isn’t referencing the Eucharist itself but acceptance of Jesus’ teaching, which is a matter of Spirit, not flesh.
 
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