Why would God create someone who he knows is going to damn themselves?

[paperclip21]

This has been doing circles in my head for a while now, and all I can come up with is a cold-hearted,“so they can be stepping stones for the faithful to God”. I don’t like that though, because God loves all His children and I couldn’t see Him creating us unequally like that. Anyone have any ideas?

 

[promethius]

This has been doing circles in my head for a while now, and all I can come up with is a cold-hearted,“so they can be stepping stones for the faithful to God”. I don’t like that though, because God loves all His children and I couldn’t see Him creating us unequally like that. Anyone have any ideas?

You’re thinking of God as a temporal being, and ominscience as the ability to see into the future. That is incorrect. God does not function on the same temporal-finite concept that we do. Thus everything that happens in the entire time of the earth is “now” in the eyes of God. A bit mysterious, yes, but that’s okay.

Further, is damnation not an expression of God’s love? For those who are so addicted to sin that they cannot give it up, or those who just outright reject or hate God, is it not God’s goodness with which He allows their freewill choice and withdraws from their lives?

It’s important to remember: through our actions and our thoughts, we CHOOSE hell for ourselves. God’s damnation is honoring our own choices.

 

[Windfish]

I am currently studying more in-depth philosophy and theology, so I do not want to say anything that might scandalize you. I simply do not have answer for you, yet.

However, what I will say is that, in this topic (which comes up a lot), what is often forgotten is that God “inhabits” a timeless reality. This changes things quite a lot when you talk about his action and knowledge. Perhaps more knowledgeable people than me can elaborate.

 

[SunshineZA]

A Good question.
Also, in light of the under mentioned text where it is explained that God gives the unrighteous over to their own desires. - How do we relate Romans 1:28-32 and this question to Psychopaths and other mentally deranged people?
28 And even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unmerciful: 32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with them that practise them.
Romans 1:28-32 (ASV)

 

[Hastrman]

Because it is better to exist than not, even if how one chooses to conduct one’s existence causes it to be hateful even to contemplate (that’s what Hell is, after all).

 

[LilyM]

Because God loves us all so much, in spite of all our faults and failings, that he wills us into existence anyway.

 

[joeantony]

You’re thinking of God as a temporal being, and ominscience as the ability to see into the future. That is incorrect. God does not function on the same temporal-finite concept that we do. Thus everything that happens in the entire time of the earth is “now” in the eyes of God. A bit mysterious, yes, but that’s okay.

Further, is damnation not an expression of God’s love? For those who are so addicted to sin that they cannot give it up, or those who just outright reject or hate God, is it not God’s goodness with which He allows their freewill choice and withdraws from their lives?

It’s important to remember: through our actions and our thoughts, we CHOOSE hell for ourselves. God’s damnation is honoring our own choices.

For sometime I thought you are right. It seems to me that there could be a slight confusion about the “free will”

Now I Do not know any verse from Bible or who told me what I am going to say, I somehow remember learning ( I believe from a priest whom I used to go for Confession) that God in His absolute wisdom and knowledge gave Free Will to mankind. But his “free” will is to “will” only the good. Basically I am saying he gives us freedom to choose only Good.

When Jesus says “I will set you free” , Does he mean that I will set you free so that you can even not choose Him ? I believe the point here is what makes someone commit a sin is the lack of freedom to do “Only” good. When he sets us free He Gives back that freedom that we lost to do Only good.

Now coming to the question of why would God create someone who he knows is going to be damned, first of all, does this question arises from the misunderstanding of “predestination” ?

I am sure I am not 100% right and I am absolutely ready for some schooling here!
Joe

 

[paperclip21]

You’re thinking of God as a temporal being, and ominscience as the ability to see into the future. That is incorrect. God does not function on the same temporal-finite concept that we do. Thus everything that happens in the entire time of the earth is “now” in the eyes of God. A bit mysterious, yes, but that’s okay.

Further, is damnation not an expression of God’s love? For those who are so addicted to sin that they cannot give it up, or those who just outright reject or hate God, is it not God’s goodness with which He allows their freewill choice and withdraws from their lives?

It’s important to remember: through our actions and our thoughts, we CHOOSE hell for ourselves. God’s damnation is honoring our own choices.

I know what you mean, I was reading Jimmy Akin’s blog ages ago and he was describing exactly what you’re saying jimmyakin.org/2010/08/theological-connections-v-the-wheel-of-time.html. I founding it fascinating.

But what I don’t get is, wouldn’t it better to have never existed at all than to be damned. Yes you’re absolutely right that we choose it, but wouldn’t God (who knows that we’ll damn ourselves, and can in fact see us doing it!), in His mercy, choose for us not to exist, rather than to damn ourselves?

 

[slywakka250]

This has been doing circles in my head for a while now, and all I can come up with is a cold-hearted,“so they can be stepping stones for the faithful to God”. I don’t like that though, because God loves all His children and I couldn’t see Him creating us unequally like that. Anyone have any ideas?

You are quite correct. In a sense, those who God foreknows will choose hell, are indeed stepping stones for the faithful, so they will be all the more glorious in heaven. Out of evil, God brings about “greater good”, and who receives the benefits of the greater good? Those who choose God, and not the damned.

This issue makes it impossible for me to love God.

The existence of even one soul suffering for eternity is too much. I don’t care how much it is deserved, or how just and precious the punishment is in God’s eyes. Its sick. There is more to life than heaven and hell. There just has to be.

 

[Viki63]

“It is not the will of God that any should die, but that all should turn from their wickedness and live.”

I think this involves a mystery that we are not equipped to understand (though that shouldn’t stop us from thinking about it.)
So some of you are suggesting that God should not create those who will choose hell/reject ultimate happiness… But even God cannot do the impossible, for example he cannot create a square circle. He cannot create a person with free will who at the same time can only choose good. Perhaps the person has to be created before God can see how he will choose – and by then it’s too late to uncreate him.
Perhaps then he should cause the sinners all to die before birth. But . … I don’t like that, though I’m not sure why. It’s like the quandry, would you kill Hitler in the cradle if you could have?
God has hope for all of us. Perhaps it’s a crazy, wild hope, because He loves us so much. (don’t ask me why), and doesn’t want to give up on anyone.
Anyway, it’s clear to me that God does love us, just look at Jesus. I may not understand completely what He’s up to, but I trust, having glimpsed the heart of Jesus, that it’s a merciful plan.

 

[tonyrey]

A very good point!

Perhaps then he should cause the sinners all to die before birth. But . … I don’t like that, though I’m not sure why. It’s like the quandary, would you kill Hitler in the cradle if you could have?

No, because it is impossible to know in advance what a genuinely free person will do. Even we ourselves cannot even be absolutely sure until the moment of decision.

God has hope for all of us. Perhaps it’s a crazy, wild hope, because He loves us so much. (don’t ask me why), and doesn’t want to give up on anyone.

Love is apparently crazy because it is willing to sacrifice everything but the more one gives the more one receives…

Anyway, it’s clear to me that God does love us, just look at Jesus. I may not understand completely what He’s up to, but I trust, having glimpsed the heart of Jesus, that it’s a merciful plan.

And it is also just! He forgives us to the exact extent that we forgive others…