Why would Mary remain a virgin...after marriage?

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I will pray for your journey. I made a similar journey. It is wise to ask questions and try to understand, not only what, but why people believe what they believe.

Like so many things, we all have our own interpretations and history that comes with just being human. Sometimes we give knee-jerk responses because we don’t listen carefully to what a person is really asking. Many people (most certainly not all) pretend to ask about our belief concerning the Blessed Mother. But what they are really doing is trying to cause a fight.

We, as Catholics, must learn that each person who asks about Mary, is a child of Mary. She doesn’t not defend herself in anger or distrust. She simply loves her Son and wants us to love Him as she does.

I would seriously ask that you study the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It is a wonderful source for answering your questions. It has an easy format for searching for particular items. The footnotes are extensive. You will notice that the Bible is the main source of information.
Thanks, Helen, for your response and for your suggestion in reading the CCC. I had the catechism for awhile but it really didn’t answer the questions in a way that I was convinced. I have started reading some of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers and will study them with the teachings of the Catholic Church and my own, the LCMS.

God bless, Helen, and thanks again for your response!

Rita
 
I want to compliment Pablobe, I think, on his detailed response on this issue. I never heard of Helvidius. I have read much of the Bible and cross referenced many. I own 5. The newer versions are translated from Aramaic, Greek, and Latin. There are groups of translators from the mainline religions including Judaism. Therefore more accurate. I found long notes log me out but on logging in my note is there but some of my soliloquies are lost to cyberspace. GRRR. So, our faith is simple and complex. It is faith (the substance of things not seen, etc) and mystery. Will this belief damage our relationship w God? Will we not go to heaven if we don’t get it right? We are sinners saved by grace and MERCY. I chose to believe. BUT, my feelings on this are: Mary was a virgin. Joseph got the message from the angel. They got married by Jewish law. When he was told she was impregnated by the Holy Spirit-He would not go where God had traveled. So, along comes our Savior. Thank you Lord,for becoming one of us, so unworthy. If a man has sex w a woman who has a child before 6 weeks is up, he can kill her. I worked the ER one night. A 21 yo came in. She just had a baby 2 wks ago,. They bought some pills to make things happier. Caffiene based I assume. The activity of the man pumped in air to a porous uterus and she died. The father was a druggie. I hope the grandparents got the baby. The Jewish culture you said had a 30 day of being unclean and they didn’t break those rules. She may have had to go into the Red Tent. It is a movie now. I had visited the Temple for some reference questions and the secretary gave me the book. Yulk. In my other post, I mentioned a phenonmena that men today have. They don’t want to have sex their wife because they could hurt the baby. (my son was doing this till I set him straight on the chemistry and physics behind this) I worked w 2 nurses who ended up divorced. Their husband wouldn’t get romantic after delivery because they saw her as the Blessed Mother. Sooo Sad. Well, they were regular guys w regular wives and children. Now, you have the Blessed Mother and our savior. ONe might feel unworthy. He was old. I do believe the older widow w children. It was the culture. They weren’t teenagers in love.
She was 14. I still don’t like the young thing. By the time it all came together, age could be a factor in function. So, there,stick that under your cap and wear it. PHEW. Plus read all the great stuff Pabloe wrote. I am probably
excuse typos
In Christs love,
Alice:heart::blessyou:
 
Wmscott, please take this in love. I am one of those Protestants who have caused you to bang your head so much. I don’t think we’re so close-minded as that we want to “test the spirits” as we are admonished in 1 John 4:1. Over the span of my lifetime I’ve had many different denominations proclaim to me that they “had the Truth” and because of that I’ve learned to carefully “test” the histories and doctrines/dogmas taught by each. I continue to do that now.

Another poster asked why we Protestants throw out the Early Church Fathers and say that they were so long ago we don’t need them. I have just now received the writings of the Ante-Nicean Fathers and will be excitedly reading and studying them.

I pray God’s precious peace be with you as you interact with us here.

Thank you for taking time to help us understand the Catholic faith.
see my post on 1/15/2015. and another member wrote a really long response w hyperlinks to writings of church leader on Hevdius(or something like that) He was for having sex. St. Jerome rebutted for eternal virginity. His name is in my note. tweedlealice. In Christs’ love Alice:shrug:
 
Okay, so post a list of those here, and we can discuss them.
Like I said, there are multiple passages that discuss Jesus’ brothers, as well as “who” the individual families they belong to. Here are the main verses I used to cross-reference with each other to come to the conclusion - Biblically - that the “adelphos” of Jesus are His half-brothers. But you have to examine them - as a whole - rather than individually. Otherwise, if you critique each individual verse with a preconceived religious belief, you won’t realize how your interpretation of that individual verse causes cross-referencing problems with other verses. I would suggest physically writing out each individual family unit pertaining to each verse:

Matthew 10:3; 12:46-50; 13:46-50; 20:20; 27:56; Mark 10:35; 15:40,47; 16:1; Luke 1:36; John 2:12; 6:42; 7:3-5; 19:25-27; Acts 1:13-14; 12:2; 1 Corinthians 15:3-8; Galatians 1:19; 2:9; James 1:1; Jude 1:1; Psalm 69:8
 
Based upon your research on the half-brothers:

Who are the biological parents of:
James the James - Eusibius got that nailed down on to Joseph being the father
James/Joseph/Simon/Jude? How are their parents related to Jesus?

How did you arrive at the half-brothers status for the foursome?/
When Eusebius refers to James as the biological son of Joseph the (step)-father of Jesus, he also mentions that James’ brother is named Jude, which he goes onto say this same James & Jude wrote the epistles that bear their names. This “James & Jude” are obviously different from the James (the Less) who is mentioned in Scripture whose father is Alphaeus/Clopas & mother is the “other” Mary, because his father isn’t Joseph, but Alphaeus. And in Scripture, whenever this second “James” is mentioned, he’s either mentioned alone, or he’s paired with his brother Joseph. But he’s never paired with Simon Judas (Jude) nor any sisters, like the “James” who Eusebius mentions is the son of Joseph step-father of Jesus. It takes a lot of Scriptural cross-referencing, but it is Scripturally-sound.

Unfortunately, I’m at work right now, so my sources aren’t with me about the ECF’s who denied the PVM, but remind me later when you reply & I’ll post them for you. 🙂
 
Thanks, Helen, for your response and for your suggestion in reading the CCC. I had the catechism for awhile but it really didn’t answer the questions in a way that I was convinced. I have started reading some of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers and will study them with the teachings of the Catholic Church and my own, the LCMS.

God bless, Helen, and thanks again for your response!

Rita
spedteacherita,
I think you pasted me a quote from a William (WM–somebody) on stubborn protestants??
I was confused. I was amazed at the amount of dialogue on this issue and impressed w some of the research done on the subject. I did enough and recognizing arranged marriage cultures of the time (Mohammed married a 9yo-the pervert). Then, I thought Mary was only 14yo good grief. What are you going to do. I think it didn’t get any better in the 1700’s. Marie Antionette was 14yo, also. I’m not angry about the question. I wanted to define I don’t think our salvation is at risk if we don’t get it right. I have a disgusted,flippant attitude toward mideastern culture w beastiality. Leman who was the father if Rachel and Leah (Isaacs) wives. I think he married all his daughters. In the book, “The Red Tent” he was having sex w a goat. At any rate, since Mary was a vessel of God, Joseph would not have touched her. I respect he would stay celibate or get another wife. It is not mentioned. It would be probably too much to handle w the Messiah as your child. This household would be holy. aMEN:shrug:❤️ TWEEDLEALICE
 
It is interesting but I am wondering if His deity really ever touched her physically, even in the womb, unless you think God is made up of Carbon atoms ? Perhaps His divinity was, like our spirits, inside of His human flesh, and all that “touched” Mary was His human flesh. He was fully God inside full man (flesh). Holy flesh yes, but divine flesh ? Don’t think so, at least it had not been glorified yet (as He told Mary M).

One did not have to be "immaculitized to touch something “holy” in Jewish tradition if I am not mistaken. They had purification, sin covering rites, not to mention some being “perfect” (Job).

It is different for us. We are cleansed and His spirit now dwells within us, unclothed by flesh,one spirit touching another, inhabiting flesh. This only happened temporarily and selectively in OT, unlike today (Jesus told the apostles that the HS " is with you now but will soon be in you".)
You seem to be flirting with Arianism in your response here.

If His flesh was not divine, exactly how was the sacrifice of His flesh capable of forigiving all sin?!?! Sacrifices of a human isn’t sufficient to forgive the sins of the world. It is the sacrifice of God Himself that does this.

There is no separation of Jesus as man and God.
 
When Eusebius refers to James as the biological son of Joseph the (step)-father of Jesus, he also mentions that James’ brother is named Jude, which he goes onto say this same James & Jude wrote the epistles that bear their names. This “James & Jude” are obviously different from the James (the Less) who is mentioned in Scripture whose father is Alphaeus/Clopas & mother is the “other” Mary, because his father isn’t Joseph, but Alphaeus. And in Scripture, whenever this second “James” is mentioned, he’s either mentioned alone, or he’s paired with his brother Joseph. But he’s never paired with Simon Judas (Jude) nor any sisters, like the “James” who Eusebius mentions is the son of Joseph step-father of Jesus. It takes a lot of Scriptural cross-referencing, but it is Scripturally-sound.

Unfortunately, I’m at work right now, so my sources aren’t with me about the ECF’s who denied the PVM, but remind me later when you reply & I’ll post them for you. 🙂
St. Jerome refutes the argument above here. disputing Helvidius.

St. Jerome uses - and I must say it’s very Catholic :
  1. scripture itself.
and …

wait …

wait …
  1. Apostolic Tradition, that which Christ taught the apostles, and that the apostles taught their descendants:
Might I not array against you the whole series of ancient writers? Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenæus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men, who against Ebion, Theodotus of Byzantium, and Valentinus, held these same views, and wrote volumes replete with wisdom. If you had ever read what they wrote, you would be a wiser man. (par 19)

If you can find ECF’s closer to the time of Christ than St. Ignatius, Polycarp and Irenaeus and Justin Martyr, I’m all ears.

[SIGN]Keep in mind that St. Ignatius was a disciple of St. John.
The same St. John whom Christ entrusted Mary’s care to.
He KNEW if Mary had children after Jesus[/SIGN]​

Taking a Catholic book, the bible, and reading it “ALONE” and apart from the One Faith that protected and guarded it for 2,000 years, produces some amazing thoughts.
 
You seem to be flirting with Arianism in your response here.

If His flesh was not divine, exactly how was the sacrifice of His flesh capable of forigiving all sin?!?! Sacrifices of a human isn’t sufficient to forgive the sins of the world. It is the sacrifice of God Himself that does this.

There is no separation of Jesus as man and God.
Thanks for the interesting comments. Actually some would say you are flirting with gnosticism. They could take things a step further. That because flesh and sex is wrong and Mary had to be “immaculitized” and then be ever virgin, and then sinless just to carry, and bring up the Son of God, that maybe He is holier than that, and needed even more separation (did not really come in flesh but another form).
Flesh did not have to be divine, just perfect, to be a propitiating sacrifice .The spirit is at our center and is not flesh in this regard. The Divine in Him made Him perfect flesh also.
I am not saying only flesh, even only man, was on the Cross.Full man and full God was on the cross.
 
St. Jerome refutes the argument above here. disputing Helvidius.

St. Jerome uses - and I must say it’s very Catholic :
  1. scripture itself.
and …

wait …

wait …
  1. Apostolic Tradition, that which Christ taught the apostles, and that the apostles taught their descendants:
Might I not array against you the whole series of ancient writers? Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenæus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men, who against Ebion, Theodotus of Byzantium, and Valentinus, held these same views, and wrote volumes replete with wisdom. If you had ever read what they wrote, you would be a wiser man. (par 19)

If you can find ECF’s closer to the time of Christ than St. Ignatius, Polycarp and Irenaeus and Justin Martyr, I’m all ears.

[SIGN]Keep in mind that St. Ignatius was a disciple of St. John.
The same St. John whom Christ entrusted Mary’s care to.
He KNEW if Mary had children after Jesus[/SIGN]​

Taking a Catholic book, the bible, and reading it “ALONE” and apart from the One Faith that protected and guarded it for 2,000 years, produces some amazing thoughts.
Actually I have read some of Jerome’s comments on Jovinius and does very little "teaching’ and more "posturing. It is an old debate tactic.Some here on CAF say Luther did this also. Do not answer specifically with rationale but besmerch the other and just say "you are wrong.I am right and church and fathers and bible are on my side and not on yours’’.

We should not take anybody’s word, but ask why and just how do you interpret scripture, just where do fathers say this ? Perhaps he was more specific with Helvidius.
 
Like I said, there are multiple passages that discuss Jesus’ brothers, as well as “who” the individual families they belong to. Here are the main verses I used to cross-reference with each other to come to the conclusion - Biblically - that the “adelphos” of Jesus are His half-brothers. But you have to examine them - as a whole - rather than individually. Otherwise, if you critique each individual verse with a preconceived religious belief, you won’t realize how your interpretation of that individual verse causes cross-referencing problems with other verses. I would suggest physically writing out each individual family unit pertaining to each verse:

Matthew 10:3; 12:46-50; 13:46-50; 20:20; 27:56; Mark 10:35; 15:40,47; 16:1; Luke 1:36; John 2:12; 6:42; 7:3-5; 19:25-27; Acts 1:13-14; 12:2; 1 Corinthians 15:3-8; Galatians 1:19; 2:9; James 1:1; Jude 1:1; Psalm 69:8
For Mt 10:3, I think that you want 10:2. Also, Mt 13:46-50 seems to be a mistaken reduplication from 12:46-50.

A. Mt 12:46-50 and Jn 2:12 and 7:3-5 and Ac 1:14 use αδελφοι for people with whom Jesus had a close association, presumably for members of his household and/or wider family. On the other hand, 1 Co 15:6 (like many other verses in the NT) uses αδελφοι very broadly, for Christian brethren. These verses show us that αδελφος was used in a variety of ways, as was normal in Greek, and so we cannot logically assume that αδελφος = συναιμος.

B. Mt 20:20 and 27:56 specify that the αδελφοι who were sons of Zebedee in Mt 10:3/Mk10:35/Ac 12:2 had the same mother. On the other hand, Ac 7:13 uses αδελφοι for a group of 12 people of whom only 2 had the same mother. These verses show us that αδελφος was used in a variety of ways, as was normal in Greek, and so we cannot logically assume that αδελφος = συναιμος.

C. Lk 1:36 refers to Mary’s συγγενης (as does 1:58, with the plural). While Ps 69:8 uses αδελφοι and 'υιοι της μητρος as synonyms, Romans 9:3 uses αδελφοι and συγγενεις as synonyms. These verses show us that αδελφος was used in a variety of ways, as was normal in Greek, and that the fields of denotation of συγγενης and αδελφος overlapped.

D. Jn 6:42 shows that the Jews thought that Jesus was Joseph’s 'υιος, which is not particularly relevant.

E. Jn 19:25-27 shows Jesus using typically-familial terms (μητηρ and 'υιος) in a broad fashion, as was normal in Greek. It also shows Jesus passing his mother into the care of a male outside of his family, which suggests that there was no close male relative to perform that role.

F. Mk 15:40, 47, and 16:1, and Mt 27:56 refer to Mary the mother of James the Less and of Joses (Ιωσης). There is no reason to presume that this Mary is the mother of Jesus, since a/ all of these were quite common names from the period, b/ that other group (Jesus’ apparent household/associates) includes not only a Ιακωβος and a Ιωσης but also a Ιουδας and a Σιμων (Mk 6:3, Mt 13:55), which would make omitting half of them very strange especially since it is expressed that way in both gospels, c/ in neither gospel is the mother of James and Joses identified as the mother of Jesus, the omission of which would be quite bizarre, and d/ there is no mention of that Mary being the mother of John, despite Jn 19:25-7. That is, in all probability, another Mary.

(Also, this is James the Less, not the James of Ac 15:13, one of the leaders in Jerusalem, the one mentioned in Gal 1:19 and 2:9, who most probably was the James in Mk 6:3 and Mt 13:55.)

G. We do have an extra-biblical historical source, the Protoevangelium of James, which claims that Mary had no other children. Since that text was written within one lifetime of Jesus’ ministry, if its claim were false, we could reasonably expect C2nd or 3rd criticisms of its historical inaccuracy but we have neither those nor records of same (despite having copious records of such criticisms on other scores, e.g. Epiphanius’ Panarion).

H. We have no record whatsoever of the subsequent lineage of Jesus’ brothers. Given the nature of eastern Mediterranean cultures at the time, their ideas of inheritance, and Jesus’ status within the early Church, his nephews, grand-nephews etc would have been celebrities. Instead, there is just nothing, and this is coherent with the theory that Jesus gave his mother into John’s care because they had all died.

I. The Orthodox have been reading these texts in their own language, with minute scrutiny, without any dogma telling them what to believe, for two thousand years, and the majority consensus from them is that there is no evidence of Mary having had other children.

Just to reiterate, none of this is dogma for me, either. However, on a linguistic basis, there is no clear demonstration that the αδελφοι of Jesus were Mary’s children, and, on a historical basis, there is no evidence of but instead attestation against any such children having existed. I cannot disagree with that unless I get hold of a time machine, go back, and take DNA samples.
 
Actually I have read some of Jerome’s comments on Jovinius and does very little "teaching’ and more "posturing. It is an old debate tactic.
Your opinion aside, do you have any proof that he was wrong? Jerome is pretty specific in referring to St. Ignatius’ belief in Mary’s perpetual virginity. Interesting also, that you trust Jerome (Augustine too) on the canon of scripture but disbelieve him (and Augustine) on Mary?
Some here on CAF say Luther did this also. Do not answer specifically with rationale but besmerch the other and just say "you are wrong.I am right and church and fathers and bible are on my side and not on yours’’.
So where Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, Catholic East, Catholic West and Orthodox all agree on something - based on Scripture AND Tradition, there are still select protestants that hold their ground and say “well they are all are wrong and I’m right”.

Benhur, is this your position?
 
Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenæus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men,
Again, what did they specifically say ? Did Jerome just banter names about ? I think Ignatius says nothing on Mary, except in one spurious letter. "many other apostolic men " ? perhaps Polycarp says something but certainly not “volumes”.
 
It is interesting but I am wondering if His deity really ever touched her physically, even in the womb, unless you think God is made up of Carbon atoms ? Perhaps His divinity was, like our spirits, inside of His human flesh, and all that “touched” Mary was His human flesh. He was fully God inside full man (flesh). Holy flesh yes, but divine flesh ? Don’t think so, at least it had not been glorified yet (as He told Mary M).
It is a miracle. We do not need to know how it is done. Yes, we can speculate all we want. God can just will it and it happens. Or he can breath on her and it happens. Really, that is not important.
One did not have to be "immaculitized to touch something “holy” in Jewish tradition if I am not mistaken. They had purification, sin covering rites, not to mention some being “perfect” (Job).
It is not the purification rites that is critically important. It is who has the authorization to do it. In the OT, certain tribes are chosen to do certain things e.g. Levites - priesthood. Even those with the authorization needs to go through purification to touch holy objects. Have you been given the authorization to defile holy objects? Or did you declare yourself authorized? Self given authority is no authority. The authority must be given by someone who has the authority to give you in the first place.
It is different for us. We are cleansed and His spirit now dwells within us, unclothed by flesh,one spirit touching another, inhabiting flesh. This only happened temporarily and selectively in OT, unlike today (Jesus told the apostles that the HS " is with you now but will soon be in you".)
You think you have been cleansed. But how clean can one be? We are not sinless creatures. Cleansed once at baptism and dirty the next. Or are you relying on wearing an invisibility cloak to cover your sins? Can you self declare yourself righteous? If you can, you need not wait for Judgement Day. You can always try to enter heaven by the back door via your invisibility cloak and hope your OSAS key fits into the door. The key may not fit. May be there is no keyhole at all. Worse, there is no backdoor. Nothing unclean can enter heaven. Not only must you appear to be clean, you must be clean. You will have to check your cloak at the gate before entering and frisked. You didn’t know that, did you?😛
 
Again, what dhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLsBVRn1U_0&list=PLVvCGLFI4mD6k5d7JVlzm5zHtmbzHAUbNid they specifically say ? Did Jerome just banter names about ? I think Ignatius says nothing on Mary, except in one spurious letter. "many other apostolic men " ? perhaps Polycarp says something but certainly not “volumes”.
Benhur -

What is your answer to the question below then from the previous post ?

*So where Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, Catholic East, Catholic West and Orthodox all agree on something - based on Scripture AND Tradition, there are still select protestants that hold their ground and say “well they are all are wrong and I’m right”.

Benhur, is this your position?*

And I’ll add for clarity: are you open that to the thought that all over parties above are correct?
 
When Eusebius refers to James as the biological son of Joseph the (step)-father of Jesus, he also mentions that James’ brother is named Jude, which he goes onto say this same James & Jude wrote the epistles that bear their names. This “James & Jude” are obviously different from the James (the Less) who is mentioned in Scripture whose father is Alphaeus/Clopas & mother is the “other” Mary, because his father isn’t Joseph, but Alphaeus. And in Scripture, whenever this second “James” is mentioned, he’s either mentioned alone, or he’s paired with his brother Joseph. But he’s never paired with Simon Judas (Jude) nor any sisters, like the “James” who Eusebius mentions is the son of Joseph step-father of Jesus. It takes a lot of Scriptural cross-referencing, but it is Scripturally-sound.

Unfortunately, I’m at work right now, so my sources aren’t with me about the ECF’s who denied the PVM, but remind me later when you reply & I’ll post them for you. 🙂
Agreed, if James the Just is Jesus half- brother then Jude the brother of James the Just must be Jesus half brother as well. This Jude is not of the foursome obviously. Unfortunately, this is extra-biblical and we should just treat it as good information to know.

Previously, I mentioned there is no conclusive proof that Clopas and Alphaeus is the same person. I don’t recall Alphaeus being mentioned to be associated with any Mary at Calvary. So, we have to leave that open. Unless you are contending that James of Alphaeus (one of the 12) is James of the foursome? Don’t believe such evidence exists. The bible mentioned about his disbelieving foursome brethren in Matthew and Mark. This Apostle can not be in the foursome by logic.

So who do you think are the parents of the foursome? Me thinks, Mary+Clopas. Clopas = brother of Joseph(Jesus dad). Therefore Jesus cousins. There are not that many options for folks standing around at Calvary. We only have so many Marys. If Jesus mum Mary is ever mentioned, she is always identified as Jesus mum, and not the mother of other kids with Jesus name omitted.

Gentle reminder for your sources of ECFs that did not believed Mary EV.
 
When we talk about the Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Mother we are talking about all 3 of the following things.

1 - A Virgin BEFORE the conception and birth of our Lord Jesus (ante partum)
2 - A Virgin DURING or even in the act of delivering our Lord Jesus (intra partum)
3 - A Virgin forevermore afterwards (post partum)
  • Mary was a Virgin before the birth of Jesus the Christ (ante partum)
  • Mary was a Virgin during the birth of Jesus the Christ (in partu)
  • Mary was a Virgin after the birth of Jesus the Christ (post partum)
thetazlord.

You said:
Unfortunately, I’m at work right now, so my sources aren’t with me about the ECF’s who denied the PVM, but remind me later when you reply & I’ll post them for you.
There aren’t any.

No Fathers denied the Blessed Virgin’s Perpetual Virginity. Unless you consider Tertullian one of your religious “fathers” and even Tertullian asserted the ante partum and intra partum virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

ST. JEROME "[Helvidius] produces Tertullian as a witness to (his view) and quotes Victorinus, bishop of Petavium. Of Tertullian, I say no more than that he did not belong to the Church. But as regards Victorinus, I assert what has already been proven from the gospel—that he (Victorinus) spoke of the brethren of the Lord not as being sons of Mary but brethren in the sense I have explained, that is to say, brethren in point of kinship, not by nature. By discussing such things (we) are . . . following the tiny streams of opinion. Might I not array against you the whole series of ancient writers? Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men, who against (the heretics) Ebion, Theodotus of Byzantium, and Valentinus, held these same views and wrote volumes replete with wisdom. If you had ever read what they wrote, you would be a wiser man "

—St. Jerome Against Helvidius: The Perpetual Virginity of Mary 19, [A.D. 383].​

And even Tertullian asserted the pre (ante) partum and intra partum virginity of the Blessed Mother.

TERTULLIAN “These things certainly are not “foolish.” Inquire again, then, of what things he spoke, and when you imagine that you have discovered what they are will you find anything to be so “foolish” as believing in a God that has been born, and that of a virgin, and of a fleshly nature too”. . . Tertullian – On The Flesh of Christ, Chapter 4.

Why is this a “new heresy” if taught by Tertullian? Because Tertullian did not deny Mary’s in partu inviolability.

Helvidius is innovating even this concept, and now according to Helvidius (in almost approximately 400 A.D.), Mary was allegedly having intimate relations with Joseph—that is the innovation here in Helvidius’ denial.

Bonosus picked it up (the Helvidian or Helvetian heresy) and lost his bishopric over this issue so the early Church (correctly) thought it of great importance.

And actually as Jurgen’s states, Tertullian’s (apparent) denial came only AFTER what is called “his Catholic Period”. He may very well have been deep into his “Montanist Period” (even beyond his “Semi-Montanist Period”) when he apparently made his denial.

Show me one verse that talks about any of the Blessed Virgin Mary’s other children (not including the spiritual sense i.e. Revelation 12:17–yep the Blessed Mother is the spiritual Mother of all Christians–Mary is MY Mother spiritually speaking) or one verse that refers to the Blessed Virgin Mary as someone’s mother (I will tell you in advance, Psalm 69 isn’t going to work for denying the Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary).
 
Thanks for the interesting comments. Actually some would say you are flirting with gnosticism. They could take things a step further. That because flesh and sex is wrong and Mary had to be “immaculitized” and then be ever virgin, and then sinless just to carry, and bring up the Son of God, that maybe He is holier than that, and needed even more separation (did not really come in flesh but another form).
Flesh did not have to be divine, just perfect, to be a propitiating sacrifice .The spirit is at our center and is not flesh in this regard. The Divine in Him made Him perfect flesh also.
I am not saying only flesh, even only man, was on the Cross.Full man and full God was on the cross.
False premise. Not flirting with Gnosticism at all. No one said flesh and sex were wrong. We believe as Jesus and St Paul taught that sex in marriage is a great good, holy. But giving up sex for the glory of God is even better.

You are really treading into dangerous territory with your flirtation with Arianism here, and it seems as if you are doing so only out of desperation to prove the Church, the Orthodox and all the Reformers wrong and yourself right.
 
That because flesh and sex is wrong
You will never find any Catholic teaching articulating (nuptial) sex as being wrong. Rather…you will find text after text declaring it to be sacred and holy and beautiful.
and Mary had to be “immaculitized” and then be ever virgin, and then sinless
This also is not a correct explication of the teaching on Mary’s PV. There is no such declaration that Mary “had” to be. Rather, it was “fitting” that Mary be a perfect container for the Eternal Word.

Fitting. Not obligatory.
 
St. Jerome refutes the argument above here. disputing Helvidius.

St. Jerome uses - and I must say it’s very Catholic :
  1. scripture itself.
and …

wait …

wait …
  1. Apostolic Tradition, that which Christ taught the apostles, and that the apostles taught their descendants:
Might I not array against you the whole series of ancient writers? Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenæus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men, who against Ebion, Theodotus of Byzantium, and Valentinus, held these same views, and wrote volumes replete with wisdom. If you had ever read what they wrote, you would be a wiser man. (par 19)

If you can find ECF’s closer to the time of Christ than St. Ignatius, Polycarp and Irenaeus and Justin Martyr, I’m all ears.

[SIGN]Keep in mind that St. Ignatius was a disciple of St. John.
The same St. John whom Christ entrusted Mary’s care to.
He KNEW if Mary had children after Jesus[/SIGN]​

Taking a Catholic book, the bible, and reading it “ALONE” and apart from the One Faith that protected and guarded it for 2,000 years, produces some amazing thoughts.
Keep in mind that Jerome who believed that the “brothers” of Jesus were His cousins, contradicts his peer Augustine who believed they were His older step-brothers from an “alleged” previous first marriage of Joseph before he married Mary. The problem is that Augustine bases this “first marriage” on a false pseudoepigraphical ‘gospel" of the Protoevangelium of James that states that Mary losing her virginity, by her mid-wife “testing” her virginity by breaking her hymen. So, the “Mary” of Proto-James isn’t even the same Mary in Scripture who was still a virgin at Jesus’ birth. In fact, even in their day, neither Augustine nor Jerome, nor anyone else knew for certainty “who” these “brothers” of Jesus actually were - something I would think would be “universal” since they were named in Scripture - James, even more often named than Mary herself.

The problem with Jerome’s “refutation” is that - Scripturally - he fails to realize that there were four women at the cross, according to John’s Gospel, rather than just the three that Matthew & Mark’s mention who had moved away from the cross after Jesus died - Mary the mother of Jesus being the only woman left at the cross by this time. And the key to understanding the relationship between these “brothers” of Jesus is how they are related to these woman at the cross - something Eusebius & Helvidius understood, Scripturally, which Jerome & other later did not. It gets confusing with all the “James,” but with careful exegesis of Scripture, you can find out.
 
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