Why would somebody embrace the worst possible scenario?

[IWantGod]

The worst possible scenario

1. There is no God.

2…There is no good and evil

3…There is no purpose or meaning other than what we fantasize

4…We are all going to die and cease to exist.

The one constant we all share is that if someone holds our head under the water we will all fight for our lives. Its in our nature.

The Theist is often criticized for trusting in something they can’t physically prove. But why would you embrace the worst possible scenario if you don’t know for certain that its true?.

 

[IWantGod]

I can see the similarities. But one thing i would say is that pascal frames his argument in the context of heaven and hell and more importantly, hell is spoken of as a looming threat, something that could happen in the future if we don’t make the right bet.

My argument is different in that i identify our immediate situation if there is no God. The problem is we are already in the worst possible scenario if the atheist is right. There is no good and evil there is no value or meaning other than the fantasies in our heads, and we are going to die and cease to exist and most of us are going to live a life of struggle before that happens. All of our percieved achievements in life are not going to mean anything when we are gone. It will be like we never existed at all. Its crazy.when you really think about.

God is the only being that can save us from that scenario. So what would you rather? Be right about your atheism, your metaphysical doubt and cynicism and live in the worst possible scenario? Or have faith that life does mean something, that there is a greater good and there is a God. In other-words there is a point to all of this…
.

 

[JamalChristophr]

Always expect the worst, and if anything else happens, you’ll be pleasantly surprised.

(Well, most of the time……probably…that’s what people say… I don’t know!.. Don’t bother me. )

 

[eddietoo]

what reason is there for believing that everything only has the meaning each individual gives it?

human beings have the use of reason. is it even possible for a sane human being to postulate something without a supporting reason for the postulation?

what is the reason people have for believing something which is unsupportable, for which there is no evidence, i.e. believing only the physical universe exists?

 

[1Lord1Faith]

The worst possible scenario

You mean, regarding a certain subject.

If the subject is Catholicism then people can come to CAF to read all the “worst possible scenarios” that Catholics could ever come up with regarding the damnation of the soul. But, like your “worst possible scenario” proposal regarding atheism - most, if not all of them only exist on the lunatic fringe.

 

[goout]

But why would you embrace the worst possible scenario if you don’t know for certain that its true?.

Because you refuse to submit your intellect and will to anything uncertain.
Better to latch on to yourself than to enter the mystery.
Which leads one in circles, cause nothing in life is certain. We didn’t bring ourselves into the world and we don’t know when we leave.

 

[Cruciferi]

The worst possible scenario

There is no God.

2…There is no good and evil

3…There is no purpose or meaning other than what we fantasize

4…We are all going to die and cease to exist.

If that was the truth, I’d be heading to the pub more regularly

 

[fredystairs]

If I was an atheist I would be living my life in one of two ways. Either I would have a great time indulging in hedonistic activities because I would want to get as much enjoyment out of today because I could be dead tomorrow. And I’d do whatever I needed to to live that life style.

Or I would be a health freak. I’d try to to maintain my body for as long as I could because once it broke down I’d be dead and there would be nothing else.

But helping others, doing my duties in life and all of that would have no meaning so why would I bother? I think that that is a pretty sad life. But those without God I guess live their lives that way.

 

[JamalChristophr]

@fredystairs
I think a number of atheists are still concerned with the concept of good and being moral. I don’t know the statistics, but the law of God, that is to say, what is good and what is evil, is imprinted on the human heart. So perhaps we should be careful not to write atheists off to quickly.

My 2 denarii.

 

[fredystairs]

That’s kind of my point. They say there is no God, no eternal reward or punishment but yet they live their lives by helping others etc. So in my mind I don’t see where they are being consistent— they say one thing and do something else.

I agree though that this points to morality being written on their hearts. I have hope for them.

Blessings

 

[webmasterpdx]

Note that the atheist is also trusting in something that he cannot prove.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

Pray for sunshine, but always be prepared for rain.

 

[RandomAlias]

That’s kind of my point. They say there is no God, no eternal reward or punishment but yet they live their lives by helping others etc. So in my mind I don’t see where they are being consistent— they say one thing and do something else.

I (along with @JamalChristophr) think you are seriously underestimating good atheists. They have reasons for doing good. There is no inconsistency.

Consider your own framework of morals and values. If love of God and desire for eternal reward were suddenly taken out of that framework, wouldn’t you still have a few solid reasons to do good? Wouldn’t “love one another” still make sense and motivate you? That law is written in the good atheist’s heart too.

 

[stupidisasstupiddoes]

You seem be asking why someone would embrace nihilism? I would say that the primary reason is that it serves the interests of their selfish desires. You’ve probably seen exaggerated comedy sketches where people learn the end of the world is imminent (e.g. a meteor is about to hit) so they punch their boss, kiss their co-worker and stuff all the available doughnuts into their mouth. Well that’s an exaggeration of the freedom that comes with nihilism. I’d also say that it tends to appeal to very stupid people who are incapable of deep abstract thinking, please don’t confuse that with low IQ though. It gives them a freedom to say that reality is whatever they perceive it to be and in effect, their opinions become facts. In that sense, it appeals to people who couldn’t defend their opinions against any empirical body of facts about things that do and don’t work in the world.

 

[fredystairs]

@RandomAlias

I never meant to question their love for others. I only question the inconsistency of their position.

I (along with @JamalChristophr) think you are seriously underestimating good atheists. They have reasons for doing good.

What would those reasons be, if there is no God, no heaven, no hell?

Consider your own framework of morals and values. If love of God and desire for eternal reward were suddenly taken out of that framework, wouldn’t you still have a few solid reasons to do good? Wouldn’t “love one another” still make sense and motivate you?

Here I’m assuming that what you mean is that I suddenly decided that God did not exist. If that is the case, then I wouldn’t know what those reasons to do good would be. Scripture says that God is love (1 John 4: 8); without God there is no love and thus no motivation to do good, no reason to love God and neighbor . But let me ask you the same question. If you suddenly thought that there is no God, then what reasons, consistent with the belief that there is no God, would you have to do good?

Let me posit the reverse example. Let us say that we have a Christian who says that he believes in God but then he cheats on business deals, mistreats those around him, etc. Here the Christian is saying one thing and doing something different. He is saying he believes in God but then does not act like there is a God. I see an inconsistency with the Christian’s position, just as I see that there is inconsistency in the atheist’s position.

That law is written in the good atheist’s heart too

I absolutely agree with that. And that is what gives me hope that atheists will come to understand that there is a God and will seek Him out. If I can point out the inconsistency of their position, then I hope that that will plant a seed to have them seek out the source of that law of love.

Blessings

 

[IWantGod]

If I was an atheist I would be living my life in one of two ways. Either I would have a great time indulging in hedonistic activities because I would want to get as much enjoyment out of today because I could be dead tomorrow. And I’d do whatever I needed to to live that life style.

Or I would be a health freak. I’d try to to maintain my body for as long as I could because once it broke down I’d be dead and there would be nothing else.

But helping others, doing my duties in life and all of that would have no meaning so why would I bother? I think that that is a pretty sad life. But those without God I guess live their lives that way.

What you have with metaphysical naturalism is that all human activity becomes unintelligible, pointless, and meaningless.

Question: Hi atheists, Why are you trying to stay alive?

Atheist: I don’t know why, i just am.

Question: Hi Christian, why are you trying to stay alive?

Christian: To serve the greater objective good.

The strange thing is that most Atheists act like there is a point to what ever it is they are doing. So they are either living in a dream world, or they are not intelligent enough to grasp their situation, or they are insane.

 

[IWantGod]

You seem be asking why someone would embrace nihilism? I would say that the primary reason is that it serves the interests of their selfish desires. You’ve probably seen exaggerated comedy sketches where people learn the end of the world is imminent (e.g. a meteor is about to hit) so they punch their boss, kiss their co-worker and stuff all the available doughnuts into their mouth. Well that’s an exaggeration of the freedom that comes with nihilism. I’d also say that it tends to appeal to very stupid people who are incapable of deep abstract thinking, please don’t confuse that with low IQ though. It gives them a freedom to say that reality is whatever they perceive it to be and in effect, their opinions become facts. In that sense, it appeals to people who couldn’t defend their opinions against any empirical body of facts about things that do and don’t work in the world.

Yes i think autonomy is another issue here. I think people would rather serve their carnal or natural desires as they see fit. Religion asks of us to make sacrifices in that department and is thus veiwed as undesirably restrictive or unreasonable… And so they sacrifice God instead.

 

[Spyridon]

@fredystairs

You’re absolutely right.

If atheism is true, then nothing has any true or lasting meaning. Everything is just meaningless random coincidence. There is absolutely no logical reason for a person to be “moral” if there is no god. Everything is permissible.

There’s a good reason atheism breeds nihilism. Because to be a logically consistent atheist, one must also embrace nihilism.

The atheists who say “oh but I find meaning in my life and morality is good because of society, etc” are kidding themselves. None of that matters in the end if atheism is true, so why care about it at all?

 

[IWantGod]

The atheists who say “oh but I find meaning in my life and morality is good because of society, etc” are kidding themselves. None of that matters in the end if atheism is true, so why care about it at all?

They have to say that, even if they are delusional because just like the rest of us they don’t want to die and they naturally desire what is good, even if they don’t fully comprehend what that means. They just don’t want it to mean God.

 

[jfz178]

I don’t join in the xenophobia about atheists. I know some atheists who are very moral people, more so than some religious people I know. I think atheists use the reason God gave them to come to the obvious conclusion that there is no definitive, empirical evidence for God, which is something religious people need to be reminded of from time to time.

What atheists lack is Faith, which I appreciate as a great gift from God, maybe the greatest gift. Faith is the opposite of certainty, which is what the atheists want and sadly can never get. That is a reminder to evangelists that they cannot convert the unbelieving though logic or reason. They can’t even do it through scripture or doctrine. They can only do it through Faith.

On a lighter note, I feel sorry for atheists, because “Atheists Don’t Have No Songs”